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Old 07-18-2005, 04:31 PM   #76
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Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTStang
I don't see why it would be embarrasing considering you forget this new chassis that the 05-up Mustangs sit on was designed around an IRS read-end.

But the public outcry about having a straight-axle was so great that Ford mid-stream went and spent more time and money to actually create a whole new solid-axled to fit into this chassis.

So as long as sales are up which they are 70% increase from 04 to 05. And the customers who buy the cars get what they want.... What does Ford have to be ashamed of?
i have said everything you just said in previous posted so you are not bringing any new information which i dont already know. i was simply stating that to some it may be kind of embarassing that ford has used this ancient technology for so long that they have made it handle as well as other companies independent suspensions. it was mroe of a hint of sarcasm but i think you misunderstood my point...or just picked certain words out of my post. in that same exact sentence i also mentioned that it could also be that it is rather impressive what ford can do with the solid axle.

through this thread, i have found out that Mustang owners can be very sensitive when even the slightest thought of Ford not being perfect arises...i find it quite amusing.
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Old 07-18-2005, 05:01 PM   #77
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Sort of off topic but the 05 Mustang chassis is actually completely unique to the mustang. During the design stages they started out with the lincoln LS chassis but it was gradually changed more and more and it really dosn't retain much, I think only the floor pan is the same. The lincoln LS not only has IRS but it also has double wishbone front suspension. That Neither of those setups are part of the new GT. The 4.6 wouldn't fit between the suspension with the LS's front suspension, and the idea of lowering the displacement more was out of the question. The wheel base was also changed and the rear suspension....well that has already been discussed to exhaustion. The result is a car that will turn peoples heads and command respect with its raw but modern power. At the same time its a car that you will not easily outhandle without a more serious car than your average daily commuter. I am pretty pleased with the results because it dosn't sacrifice its reputation as a straight line oriented car, but still can handle and brake well enough to make everyone happy. K3 was right when he compared the mustang to a 350Z or Rx8, they are at least in the same price region. The comparrison of a theoretical 70000 dollar 07 Skyline and the 40000 dollar alleged GT500 are way off. To me its like comparing a Ford F150 to an Infiniti FX, they are alike in that you can order them with similar power packages, but they are designed with totally different things in mind, and really do not compete in the same market. Nobody on the market for a new skyline is going to change their mind and get a bad ass mustang, and nobody jumping in line to order their GT500 is even considering spending 75% more on a skyline.
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Old 07-18-2005, 05:31 PM   #78
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Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by k3smostwanted
wow...thank you for confirming what i have been preaching this entire last 2 pages. jeez...

the solid axle is fine...but it is inferior when it comes to comparing it to $70k performance cars. ford is doing a dandy job of building the car to suit the public but they are not building it to beat a corvette around a track. they are building it to give a cheaper alternative for those wanting straight line performance. it is rather innovative and a very smart marketing move if you ask me and i think it will sell very well in the US market.

i thinkt eh mustang GT is a rather mistifying car myself...how ford has used and professionalized the solid axle for so long and so many times, that they can get it to compte with such cars as the 350Z with far superior technology. its either embarassing that ford has been using it that long or it is rather impressive that a company is able to to do this...

anyways, bottom line has been stated over and over: the GT500 will not beat or even come close to a Z06, 911 or the upcoming GTR around a track. in 1/4 mile performance we can have a comparison...in any other, the GT500 is not being built for it.
Road & Track actually drove a 2007 Ford Shelby Cobra GT500 prototype around Grattan Raceway Park in Michigan in their August 2005 issue. The following is from that issue:

"Chassis balance was blessedly close to neutral, enough so that grin-inducing throttle steer is the preferred technique at the limit, and transitions came with natural accuracy."

http://www.grattanraceway.com/
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Old 07-18-2005, 06:09 PM   #79
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Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by fairladyz_gt-r
Ur comparing Nissan's flagship performance car (as Kman put it) against something down the line for ford...
Id have to agree on that

Nissan > Ford

To all in advance - please dont refer to saleen as ford because there completely different.
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Old 07-18-2005, 06:26 PM   #80
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Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type
Road & Track actually drove a 2007 Ford Shelby Cobra GT500 prototype around Grattan Raceway Park in Michigan in their August 2005 issue. The following is from that issue:

"Chassis balance was blessedly close to neutral, enough so that grin-inducing throttle steer is the preferred technique at the limit, and transitions came with natural accuracy."

http://www.grattanraceway.com/
what the hell is your point??? and these comments are in comparison to what???

i dont even know what your are trying to convince me of anymore. before i thought you were trying to argue that the GT500 would handle just as well as the GTR, Z06, and 911. but this cant be, as you have agreed with me a few posts ago.

now your bringing in info about the a test drive of the GT500...i could say a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis Station Wagon seems well balanced and handles naturally. the problem with your quote is that they werent comparing it to a vette or anything for that matter. if they were, they probably would have said that, "The GT500 seems to handle much better than we first would have thought, but it is not anywhere close to the agility and all out finess around a turn that the Corvettte Z06 and cars of the like possess."

i dont want to keep reading claims that the GT500 seems like a nice car...if you are going to keep quoting articles, atleast make it pertain to this thread. you are just finding quotes that praise the gt500 and/or mustang with no comparison to any other cars.

your not going to convince me or anyone else that the GT500 will be on par with these, $70k sports cars, by quoting people that say that the GT500 sees to be well-balanced.
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Old 07-18-2005, 06:58 PM   #81
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

To TatII: Sounds like your buddy has an impressive car. I forgot about propbably the most slept on mod for any car: The DRIVER MOD lol. Predator tune, smaller pulley and exhaust on the Cobra, and your looking at a drivers race between the two. As I stated before, for 30,000 more, I would hope that the 07 would be more luxurious and better handling then the GT 500. Apples to oranges in my book...
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:16 PM   #82
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

The GT500 isn't meant to compete with cars like the 07 GTR, and vice versa. The 07 GTR is meant to compete with cars like the new Z06. In which case i'll take teh z06.
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Old 07-18-2005, 09:42 PM   #83
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Is this thing about Ford building a high end GT350 just another rumor or does it actually carry some weight?
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Old 07-18-2005, 10:00 PM   #84
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Rumor, I am sure we will see more mustang models in the next few years though, GT350 or not.
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Old 07-19-2005, 01:07 PM   #85
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Yeah, I just came up with the GT350 thing off the top of my head. I think it would make more sense than having that Shelby GR-1. The Mustang could be a lot cheaper, even if it was $50k.

A price that high would certainly give Ford some room to play with development. Maybe some lighter body panels, a great handling suspension setup(maybe time at the Nurburgring like the Z06), and of course, more power. Although $50k is a lot for a Mustang, it would still be almost $15k less than the Z06.
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:05 PM   #86
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by k3smostwanted
what the hell is your point??? and these comments are in comparison to what???

i dont even know what your are trying to convince me of anymore. before i thought you were trying to argue that the GT500 would handle just as well as the GTR, Z06, and 911. but this cant be, as you have agreed with me a few posts ago.

now your bringing in info about the a test drive of the GT500...i could say a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis Station Wagon seems well balanced and handles naturally. the problem with your quote is that they werent comparing it to a vette or anything for that matter. if they were, they probably would have said that, "The GT500 seems to handle much better than we first would have thought, but it is not anywhere close to the agility and all out finess around a turn that the Corvettte Z06 and cars of the like possess."

i dont want to keep reading claims that the GT500 seems like a nice car...if you are going to keep quoting articles, atleast make it pertain to this thread. you are just finding quotes that praise the gt500 and/or mustang with no comparison to any other cars.

your not going to convince me or anyone else that the GT500 will be on par with these, $70k sports cars, by quoting people that say that the GT500 sees to be well-balanced.
I quoted Road & Track because you said the following:

"they are building it to give a cheaper alternative for those wanting straight line performance."

I know that the GT500 won't compete with the new Corvette Z06.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky
The GT500 isn't meant to compete with cars like the 07 GTR, and vice versa. The 07 GTR is meant to compete with cars like the new Z06. In which case i'll take teh z06.
The GTR hasn't been released.

Anyways...

The official time for the new Corvette Z06 at the Nurburgring is 7:43.
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:50 PM   #87
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type
I quoted Road & Track because you said the following:

"they are building it to give a cheaper alternative for those wanting straight line performance."
but that statement was in comparison to the porsche 911, z06 corvette...and ford it building the GT500 to give a cheaper alternative to these cars for those seaking straight line performance. i dont think my statement could be any more true...
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Old 07-19-2005, 10:55 PM   #88
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k3smostwanted,

Do you think that SVT isn't developing the handling of the GT500?
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:43 PM   #89
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type
k3smostwanted,

Do you think that SVT isn't developing the handling of the GT500?
i dont really care who is developing it...it will not be on par with the Z06 and before mentioned cars.
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Old 07-20-2005, 01:05 AM   #90
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

It could handle as well as those cars...if ford wanted it to. Eventually they have to say "straightline or twisties" cause Front engine-RWD means that eventually something's gotta give.
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