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Old 08-13-2010, 07:49 PM   #1
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What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

I have a 93 VR4 with about 111K on it. Love the car to death just get caught up when knowing what things should be upgraded first, I'm looking for an all around effect of Performance & style, I know sometimes you have to sacrifice one for the other but I'm trying not to.

Current mods :
Timing belt & water pump,kevlar belt.
vehicle has an upgraded clutch system(previous owner)
new dba rotors & ebc pads
carbon fiber drive shaft (previous owner)
aluminum y pipe
boost controler & gauge, 10-12psi
turbo back exhaust (previous owner)
new vac. hoses to be installed
ball joints, tie rods, cv boots
k&N intake
hks ssqv bov

I have not dyno tested the car one because there is only one shop around and two I was a lil concerned before I had the T-belt done.

All input is welcome.

Thanks
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:12 PM   #2
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

I would ditch the kevlar timing belt. They are noisy and people have had other issues with them. Also, they are absolutely not needed. When something in the timing system goes its either a failed water pump, timing tensioner, or pulley. There has maybe been a broken belt less than 1% of the time.
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:15 PM   #3
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

It's a bit late now haha but thanks for the advice, I also replaced all the tensioners & pulleys while I was there. My thing now it what to look at upgrading next... as far as electronics I might need or fuel systems or
what not.....
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:24 AM   #4
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

I'd suggest getting a datalogger, a wideband gauge and possibly a fuel controller.. Learn how to use these items and it will help you greatly in the future.
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Old 08-15-2010, 05:22 PM   #5
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

Any certain type of dataloger? I know the wdieband whe best is probably the AEM, and as far as a fuel control.. the AFC-AVR ?
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:19 PM   #6
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

well for datalogger, i would actually suggest seeing if any other 3S owners around you might have one first.. if not, you can use either a pda with mmcd or go with a laptop based one such as HHH (handheldhalo). Learn how to read the datalogs to actually understand what is going on.
if you were lucky enough to find somene local who had a logger, the you could just go with a scanmaster 3 which is awesome for on the fly monitoring. not as easy to use for tuning sessions though.

the aem wb is fine but some peple prefer going innovate? they're a dot more expensive but supposedly much more accurate. choice is really up to you. i run aem one and it works fine..

never messed with the avc-r but it should be fine. usually though hks products seem to hold their resale value a little bit better than other. if you shop around, you could find a safc I/II for under $200 relatively easy.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:59 PM   #7
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

Yea when it comes to working on cars thats one thing but for some reason tunning throws me for a bit of a loop not something I know how to read really, but I do want to learn.
I'm assumig the HHH would be the best since you can self tune.. or just use a laptop but what programs do you need with it?

I'm not familure with innovated... was told aem was the way to go but that was probably awhile ago.

Would one thing be best to get over the other to start or all at the same time would be best.... plus would upgrading fule and everything come along with that or just fine tune everything first and upgrade from that depending on the readings...
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:22 PM   #8
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

HHH is nice since it covers all the ground of datalogging but at the same time, its kind of annoying to drive around with your laptop connected all the time. HHH would be great for tuning sessions and then using the Scanmaster 3 for daily use on keeping an eye on how the car is running. It can seem difficult to learn but it will help you build a strong foundation for your car if/when you decide to upgade injectors/turbos/etc. Also you can read about how DSM's tune their cars as they are very similar to ours..
Innovate.. aem.. doesn't really matter as long as its accurate. as mentioned i have an aem and it works fine.
it doesn't really matter.. if you get all of them at the same time, make sure you understand how to utilize the datalogger before messing around with fuel settings or it could mean a new motor. If you cannot afford getting all 3 at the same time, get datalogger, then wb, and finally a/f controller.
Also forgot this important part.. Either buy a boost leak tester from 3sx or make one of your own. This is actually very important.. Make sure thee are no boost leaks and even on 9bs, your car will feel pretty strong.
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:10 PM   #9
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

Thanks, I do understand asthe fact that I can potentcialy blow the motor haha always a possiblity if you don't know what your doing.
I'll probbaly be going with the AEM only because I like the look more.
Once you get that though don't you have to also plug the other sensors in the exhaust.. that might be a dumb question.....
Also which is better the HHH or the Scan 3... reading it over they pretty much seem to do the same thing just one stays in the car ALL the time... once you set your settings do you really have to monitor it all the time unless your tunning it or looking for certain things that you want out of your readings?
Can't you control your AFR through the scan 3 or HHH or can you only monitor the flow as far as long & short term fuel trims.. which would be why you'd need an AFC?

I've done searching and what not they do not actualy make anything as far as chips for out vehicles, and the piggy back systems are pretty much the dataloggers right? I've looked into the MAF translater also and was told not to bother is the correct?

Last edited by carguyvr4; 08-17-2010 at 09:20 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:47 AM   #10
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

once you get the wb, it will come with a bung for you to weld onto your downpipe.. you'll want to get it welded after the front and rear pipes merge to get a balanced reading of the two banks. or get 2 wb and install one on each bank.
the scanmaster 3 and hhh do the exact same thing. now the scanmaster is great because its constantly connected and lets you see o2 readings and knock sum on the fly. Which is great for constantly monitoring your car. Where the scanmaster kinda sucks is that the small screen only allows one or two things to be displayed at a time. so in order for you to get a good idea of whats going on while tuning, you'll end up doing 5-6 pulls to see each of the parameters you were trying to log. this is where something like hhh is better as you can log and see all that simultaneously. this will make tuning sessions much faster and you're not WOT your car as much. now the downside to hhh is that since you need a laptop connected to it, its kind of a pain to have a laptop in the passenger seat and hope it doesn't break if you have to suddenly brake hard or swerve. granted, if you have a bulletproof tune, then you shouldn't have to monitor it all the time but its something i like to do. the scanmaster 3 keeps it really easy to keep on eye on how your car is running and since i like to boost more than not boost, i'd like to know if my car is not running the way it should. thats why i mentioned that if you have someone local who has mmcd or hhh or any other datalogger that you can use to tune your car, just go with scanmaster to keep an eye on things.
no, the scanmaster and hhh are only dataloggers as in they log data. they cannot make any adjustments to your afr. if there are changes, its because your ecu doesn't like whats going on. you would need an afc of some sort to be able to make any changes. theres plenty of people using the maft and maft pro but as always theres haters out there. i'm not too familiar with those piggybacks but i do know that a lot of people don't think the arc2 is all that great even though matt monet used it to get into the 10s/9s/8s with it. heck.. ray pampena tuned oohnoo's car on 3si with an Apexi safc II on 680cc injectors and 19ts and made over 500awhp. now most people can't even get their car tuned on 680ccs because the lack of timing control the safc has.
to each his own, i say.. i went the aem standalone route with my suby and got it 'professionaly' tuned and blew the motor in 6 months even though i was on stock injectors and turbo and never turned up the boost past stock. not to mention a bunch of other issues the aem gave me. every single 3/s i've owned started with atleast 120k and ive gotten all of them past 180k no problem. i've been lucky enough not to experience blowing a motor or having a catastrophic failure of any sort. well.. one stealth got hit by an 18 wheeler but that had nothing to do with my tune or anything. i know there is still a lot for me to learn but all i can do is take it 1 step at a time..
good luck on your car and feel free to ask any more questions.
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:45 AM   #11
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

Other datalogger options are MMCd and MirageCorp. Both work on a Palm PDA.
The MMCd program is free and can be obtained here.
MirageCorp info can be obtained here.
The cable can be purchased on ebay or through MirageCorp.
A datalogger and wb will help you get the most out of you existing setup and can be used when you decide to bigger. With you current state of mods, you do not need a fuel controller. A fuel controller is not really necessary until you start change out your injectors. You can probably turn up the boost; just use the logger to make sure you don't knock and the wb to ensure that your a/f is safe.
If you are just taking this in steps the next mod would be to hotwire your existing fuel pump or go with a hotwired walbro or supra pump. Fuel pressure regulator is optional at this point. This would take you to being BPU. To go further, you are looking at turbo upgrades.
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:51 PM   #12
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

Thanks for the info, it's a lot to take in and consider. I'd probably go with the laptop setup just so I can watch it all and there's one less thing lit up in my car haha.

Bpu? Might be a dumb question but what's that stand for I know bhp but not bpu?

And why mess with the fp if I don't have a difference in injectors or is that just so I can rum higher boost n not burn things out? The most we can tune on stock is 14 psi but I don't think I want to push it too high....
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:26 PM   #13
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

bpu = basic power upgrades
a very good site for you to do some additional research is www.stealth316.com
jeff pretty much covers every aspect of a 3S from his own experience and links to additional information.
hot wiring or re-wiring of the fuel pump reduces the voltage drop to the f/p.
the stock wiring is small and exhibits about a 2 volt drop.
a hot wired f/p reduces this significantly, somewhere around 10% of the original drop.
you get more consistent fuel delivery as a result.
depending on your engine, you may be about to safely increase the boost past 14 psi, as long as you can monitor knock and a/f ratio.
also check for boost leaks; you will get poor results if you have boost leaks.
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:36 PM   #14
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

Interesting, not something I was aware of. But if I was to hot wire the fp or get the walboro, if i monitor everything and im running to much one way wouldn't I end up needing the arc if im running to rich in the end result?

I'll check out the sites you listed to try and inform myself better.

So in the end all i really need is a WB or what.. this is getting more complicated then first thought haha
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:44 PM   #15
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Re: What type of upgrades should I be looking into next?

if you get a walbro, you should still hot wire the f/p.
there are two methods of rewiring the f/p. The first bypasses the resistor, hot wiring, and the other keeps the functionality of the resistor, RDR rewiring. Depending who you talk to, you will get different recommendations. I, personally, like to the RDR rewire method. Under low load, this method does not overrun you stock fuel pressure regulator.
one of the reasons to hotwire or upgrade the f/p is to allow for higher boost pressures. you would less likely cause a lean condition. the hotwire will not increase the fuel so much that you will need a fuel controller.
the wb let you know if you a/f ratio is in check and the logger to inform you of knock.
it seems complicated at first, but if gets easier as you do your research. BPU is the easiest to reach, when you decide on bigger turbos is when it starts to get complicated. The choices are many and tuning requires skill.
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