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Old 07-17-2012, 03:16 PM   #91
ScratchBuilt
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Hello again,

Firstly, I can confirm that there is no hidden message behind the...'All-Black'...colouring of the jig! I sorted all my bricks by colour several years ago and I just happen to have more black Technic stuff than any other...and trying to make it in red white and blue 'Martini' colours would have been a step too far!

Anyway, back to the 935. The last layer of fibreglass on the bonnet refused to harden, so I wasn't able to remove it from the mould until returning home from Oulton Park at the weekend. I think the problem was that I usually mix up a set amount of resin and hardener in the 3:2 ratio, and that's enough for several layers on two or three moulds. When I laid the last layer on the bonnet, I mixed up a much smaller quantity of resin to avoid excessive wastage, but couldn't have added enough hardener. Grr!

Still, once it was prised off the mould and cleaned up, I was pleased with the result:





I've not trimmed it to the exact shape just yet, but it's close enough to work with for the next stage. It will need some internal reinforcement eventually, but not while I still might need to put it back on the mould.

Before I could make the pattern for the ridge which runs around the base of the windscreen I had to work out where the chassis tubes were going to be. You can see these in the last photo, and again here:



I didn't want to glue these in place just yet, so more lego has been added to hold them in position while I sort out the bonnet. The thing I can't understand about the original Porsche frame is why they didn't continue the outermost top rails up to the main roof pillars (unlike on my frame right now). The Freisinger photos clearly show these tubes cut short once they have been bolted through the inner wheel-arch pressings - they don't run up to the pillars. The diagonal cross-bracing connects to the pillars, but not the outers. I assume that it was due to the way they assembled the modified 911 shell over and around the tube frame - perhaps there was no way to fit it with the tubes running through. It would make my life easier to connect these tubes to the roof pillars, but in the interests of accuracy, they'll be cut short before final fitment!

So, after getting the frame in place, I spent a long time measuring, checking, and working out how I was going to get the new mould made. I recycled a few foam pieces from when I made the main roof mould, added some cardboard, and this was the end result:



A seam of greenstuff was added to create the transition between the two surfaces, and was given a final smoothing tonight:



This mould is now ready to start fibreglassing! Trouble is, I now want to get some other moulds ready so I can lay-up several panels at once. I made a list last week of all the moulds required for this project - it's currently up to thirty-six! It's certainly the most fibreglass-intensive project I've done, and I apologise that there hasn't been much 'styrene action' going on so far - but I really want to get the fibreglass to the right stage before we get into Autumn and the weather turns cold (yeah, I know - it's been a lousy summer here in the UK...) Then I can spend the cold, dark winter evenings working on the engine, gearbox, etc. That's the plan, anyway!

So, I'm now busy trying to get a couple more moulds ready for laying-up over the weekend - I think it will be the mk2 sill panels, although I keep thinking about the inner doorskins too. Hopefully you'll see some progress on Sunday.

Have a good week,

SB
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:31 PM   #92
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Looking really good as usual SB; very encouraging to see the body panels taking shape so nicely already!

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Old 07-17-2012, 04:22 PM   #93
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

wow. learning more about the build and the actual car with every update
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:49 PM   #94
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Hello again,

A little later in the evening than usual, but it's still Sunday. It's been a productive week - after getting the mould for the bonnet edge finished on Monday, I then spent a couple of evenings making new moulds for the inner and outer door sills. I probably could have re-used the mk1's, but I wanted to lay-up the two outer sills simultaneously, so that meant a new mould. The mould for the inner sills was re-designed slightly to hopefully give a different cross-section once finished.

When the weekend arrived, it was time to start laying-up again. First, the outer sills:



Inner sills and bonnet edge:



So far I've added between four and seven layers to these panels - the sills have now had enough, but the bonnet edge needs another three layers at least - I'm having to use the thinnest 0.6oz cloth to make sure I don't lose the detail.

As I was planning to continue laying-up through the week, my attention turned to the next set of moulds. For a challenge, I decided to tackle the rear inner wings. This was probably the most complicated of the panels I made for the mk1, but differences to the back end of the mk2 chassis meant that I couldn't re-use the original mould. So, I started by marking and cutting a 50mm thick block to match the outer contour of the chassis:



A second block was added to give the full height, and the front edge was cut at an angle to match the slope of the rear face of the door opening:



The inner surface was then cut away to (hopefully) match the curve of the rear side-windows:



The basic wheel-arch shape was removed:



...and when the whole lot is put together:



Okay - it still has to be fitted together and tidied-up, but this is pretty much 90% complete. Once it's laid-up I'll be able to trim the various edges to suit when I stitch all the pieces together. In all, this mould took around seven hours to put together during yesterday - every single surface that will be fibreglassed is a cut face. So what did I do this afternoon? I made the other side:



Second time around was a lot easier - I could re-use all the cardboard templates I made yesterday, and I knew that the shape would be correct! It was still a good couple of hours work, though.

I reckon it'll take another evening or two to get these two finished, but if I can get a couple of layers on by Friday, I should have them fully laid-up by this time next week. The sills should be off the mould by Tuesday, and I can continue adding layers to the bonnet edge; to make use of some of the excess resin I mix up, I've also started laying another sheet of plain fibreglass - this will come in useful later on for panelling, etc, rather than always using styrene sheet.

So, that's everything up-to-date again. I've got a week's holiday booked for early August, so I'm now making plans for jobs to do - it'll be a good opportunity to make some progress.

See you next week,

SB
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:30 AM   #95
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

looking very good.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #96
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Good progress; looking forward to seeing more of those body panels churned out!

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Old 07-23-2012, 05:54 PM   #97
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Amazing!!
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:02 PM   #98
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Now heres a callenge for you, a Lego Moby Dick...
Might need more than Black lego tho.
check it out
http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/01/...eated_in_lego/
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:22 AM   #99
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

da ashman - that's very funny - amazing what they can do with legos - John
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:53 PM   #100
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Yeah - that's really good; although I don't actively model with Lego these days, I do follow a couple of the websites - there are some truly stunning builders out there. One particular guy has made replicas of a whole bunch of classic F1 cars, and they're fantastic!

Meanwhile...

The next job with the two rear inner wing moulds was to tape everything together and smooth off the rough edges before starting to lay-up:



The first layer was applied on Thursday evening, another on Friday, and then more during the weekend - another couple and they should be finished.

The panels I was working on last weekend were removed from their moulds, cleaned-up, and given a first trim; here's the transition piece between the windscreen surround and the bonnet edge:





I've added some extra location fixings to the jig to support the top shell - the two original ones at the front will have to be removed eventually. I'll soon re-build the jig again to put the supporting structure inside the shell, so I can offer-up the door sills, etc.



Here's the left-hand outer door sill panel, plus the mk1 version for comparison:



There's a lot of trimming required, obviously. I might have to add some extra layers, as they're still a little flexible - however, there will be a styrene stucture running inside the sills, so maybe that will do the job.

Finally, here's the channel section I made for the inner sill panels:



This will be cut along the centre-line and trimmed to make the two final panels. The next job will be to make some moulds for the front edge of the door opening - I didn't want to make the sills in one piece, so that I would have room for adjustment.

So, that's everything up-to-date again. A quick word of thanks - I needed to order some more fibreglass resin and hardener, so called Deluxe Materials late on Friday afternoon: it arrived here early on Saturday! Great service. I'll continue laying-up the rear inner wings during the next couple of evenings, and make a few more moulds in preparation for the weekend. I don't want to go too far with the trimming until I have all the appropriate panels to hand! Hopefully the next couple of posts should see the bodyshell starting to take shape...

All the best,

SB
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Old 07-30-2012, 04:07 PM   #101
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Looking better all the time! Given any thought as to how you'll make the windshield on this one?

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Old 07-31-2012, 01:26 PM   #102
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Hi Ian,

So far my only thoughts about the windscreen have been 'I'll worry about that later'! Seriously though, I'm hoping that I'll be able to make it from flat clear sheet, with the bodyshell giving it the shape. It's not a double-curve, so it should work - I won't know until I start trimming the shell and making the openings.

The moulded covers for the headlights are the parts which are giving me the biggest concern - I don't think I'll be able to do them in fibreglass as they'll have that slight yellow shading, rather than being clear (even if I make them really thin). I guess I'll end up making patterns and experimenting with heated plastic. I don't think I'll be making these parts until next year, so there's plenty of time to find a solution.

Other concerns? Making sure I get really good panel fit. Getting the doors to fit and work properly. Door frames. Putting enough detail in without having stacks of reference material. Painting the Martini stripes! Being able to work on the car once the bodyshell is in place...

SB
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:46 PM   #103
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

I'll definitely be interested to see how you make the headlight covers. Have you done any vacuforming? If not, document it for us?

As far as the Martini stripes, perhaps you can scan the Tamiya ones and have someone print them for you to scale?

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Old 08-11-2012, 12:31 PM   #104
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Hello again,



I didn't have a lot to show last weekend, so I thought I would combine everything into an extra-large post today!



Throughout last week my focus was on continuing to lay-up the rear inner wing panels, and making preparations for the parts I wanted to make during my holiday - the front ends of the outer sills, and the new version of the front bulkhead, for example. The rear inner wings were off the moulds first, but I had to modify the jigging (again) to be able to get them into position:







With the roof added I could start trimming the wings and outer sills to fit together - everything was moulded over-size where possible to make life easier at this point. First, here's the left-hand outer sill:







...and the right-hand side rear panel:







All the time I've been adding small extensions to the jig where required to make sure the panels stay aligned and level - something the lego allows me to do quite easily.



The rear inner wheel-arch panels will eventually be trimmed to match the line of the chassis tubes, but for now I'm leaving them at their full height - why make life difficult? The curve of the rear side-windows was marked and trimmed, but it will be some time before I start building-up the edges - I'm not ready to cut into the roof section just yet.







Trimming the outer sills to match the front edge of the wheel-arches was quite straight-forward, and made easier by knowing that there will be internal detail added later which will cover and strengthen the joints. There will also be a crossmember added between the two sides (roughly level with the rear corners of the side windows) and a section of rear parcel-shelf to be moulded - I was tempted to make a start on these during the week, but decided it was too early.



As I've mentioned in other posts, one of my plans was to add a supporting structure inside the outer sills - this could be used to locate the fibreglass sections, and to give a solid base for the outer bodywork and running boards. I drilled three holes in both pairs of the main sill tubes, and used these to pin lengths of box-section along each side:







The short verticals are 1mm thick spacers which allow me to slide the fibreglass into position, whilst the outer structure clamps it in place; of course, they also tie the top and bottom of the chassis together, which is always a good thing!



These structures will be added to during the coming weeks to help support the sills and door openings. After the 908, I have to keep reminding myself that it doesn't matter if any of the fibreglass needs to be filled or modified with styrene - it's all going to be painted, not left as natural.



Later in the week the front sections of the outer sills came off the moulds and could start to be trimmed to suit:











The transition from the base of the door sill to the vertical will be filled with greenstuff, and the area around the base of the front roll-cage mountings will also be built-up from what you see here. There's all sorts of internal panelling to be added around the car, but right now this is low-priority compared to getting the core shell sorted out.



The last thing I did before starting this post was to trim the outer edge of the sills:







Not a great photo, but you can see how it won't be long before I can start thinking about trimming the outer door skins to match. The curved vertical section at the back edge of the doors needs more work to create some depth for the door latch mechanism, etc, and this will probably mean more small mouldings! Then there's the small lip for the door to seal against, and the angled section at the front, and the base of the windscreen pillars to worry about too...



I briefly mentioned the new front bulkhead at the start of this post - it's nearly ready to be removed from the mould, so that'll be in the next update. I decided to re-use the original mould but just be more careful during the lay-up. So far I'm pleased with the result, but it won't be trimmed and fitted to the chassis for a while until I have the front wheel-arch panels ready.



That's everything up-to-date for this week. It's been a little stop-start all the while, but there's not a lot you can do when you're laying-up fibreglass - it takes time. I'm resisting the temptation to make a start on styrene fabrication (engine, gearbox, etc) as there will be plenty of time for that over the winter months; the focus remains on getting the core body structure sorted out.



Hi Ian - no, I've not done any vac-forming during my modelling so far, so I'll have to do some research if that's the way I decide to go. Of course, if it happens, I'll put it in the posts! The Martini stripes pose another challenge - it would be nice to think the Tamiya decals could just be scaled-up to suit, but I suspect that there will be enough subtle differences between my bodywork and theirs that this would be a frustrating experience! However, the 908 makes me wonder whether I could mask and spray the stripes, rather than doing everything with decals...? The fall-back position is the all-white test-car (hooray for Porsche test-cars!) but we all know that it has to be the Le Mans livery. We'll see - that's a job for 2014!



Have a great week,



SB
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:39 AM   #105
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Re: 1/8 Porsche 935/78 'Moby Dick'

Hello again...

Following Ian's question about vac-forming, I did some digging around online and found some interesting videos on YouTube, plus a few links to useful sites. It's not something I have considered doing on previous projects, but I'm beginning to think it could be useful here - I just have to think of enough parts I can make to justify the effort of putting a set-up together! Hmm...watch this space.

Anyway, back to the 935. Before I trimmed any of the existing front door-frame panels further, I wanted to make the front inner wings. The original mk1 mould couldn't be re-used as I wanted to change one or two measurements and angles, but with some cardboard and blue foam it wasn't a problem to make two fresh moulds:



...and the opposite side, after a little filler to smooth out the surface:



To give myself a little insurance (and to make sure I had enough parts to lay-up in one go) I cleaned-up the two chunks of foam cut from the wheel-arches and would cover them in fibreglass too. If I need to make any modifications to the positioning of the arches, I can use these panels and graft them onto the outer sections. Here's everything after a couple of layers of 1oz cloth:



I'm also laying-up a pair of small detail parts to attach to the rear of the door opeings - these will create the depression where the door-latch mechanism sits. The problem with making these small parts in fibreglass is that even with the finest 0.6oz cloth it is still difficult to get crisp, sharp edges. I'm sure that once they're off the moulds I'll have to do quite a lot of re-working and filling to get them back into shape...which isn't a problem as they'll be painted!



So, I'll continue adding layers to these parts through the next few evenings, and while I'm doing that I'll be working on the next batch of moulds - hopefully so I can fibreglass them during next week. First up, here's the seat:



It started as two chunks of 50mm thick foam - I cut simple cardboard templates, as usual, to get the outer edge, then used the long strip shown above to start taking some of the width from the sides. Unfortunately, the size of my hot-wire tool put a limit on where I could cut, so a lot of the final shaping had to be done by hand with emery cloth:



To get a little extra width across the shoulders I've added the two small foam sections you can see above - these will need some filler and more smoothing to get the required shape. Then, the shell should really have a moulded edge added, so I'll have to work out a practical way to do that - probably a combination of cardboard and filler.

Next on the list will be the dashboard top, and probably the rear parcel-shelf / firewall - again, it's a question of using up each batch of resin / hardener mix before it starts to go-off in the pot!

So, that's it for tonight. If the front wing panels are off the moulds at the weekend I should be able to continue trimming and start putting the front end of the chassis together - including the bulkhead. Again, apologies if it's all been a bit repetitive recently, but I promise that despite the apparent lack of progress, 'normal' service will be resumed soon enough!

All the best!

SB
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