Alignments

[Dezoris]

Just for all of you, who wonder, should I get an allignment or not after lowering, or any other suspension mods. Well some will argue, that some drops don't effect the camber, or toe. So you don't need to get one.

Lowering the car does the following
1.)creates more negative camber
2.)Can change your toe angle (usually toe in)
Putting on a wider tread width tire on (195 to 205) will
1.)Change Toe angles

Now there is a specified range for these readings.
Such as the Civic for example
Front camber can be from +1 degree to -1 degree
Rear camber can be from 0 degree to -2 degrees
So who knows what the factory reading were?
What if they were on the borderline lets say the front camber was at
-.8 degree, that would mean lowering it a fraction, 1", would put it over
-1 degree. Then on the other hand is could work to your advantage.
But usually your toe is messed up to which can cause very odd handling problems, and is harder to notice.
So I hope you can see my point.
So when the alignment guy asks what settings you want, you would normally say
"within factory specs"
Well for all you Civic riders here is a modified range, something I did not have when I did my alignment.

Front Camber/TOE Range for modified suspension
Front Camber(in degrees)
Range (-1.8 degrees to 0 degree) the 0 setting will offer longer tire life
Front Toe
Range (-0.02 to 0.08)

Rear Camber/TOE Range for modified suspension
Rear Camber(in degrees)
Range (-2.0 to -.5)(Tire wear is a consideration when more negative camber is added
Rear Toe
Range (0.04 degrees to 0.15)
So the point? At least have your alignment checked after suspension mods. These ranges have been created for the tuner who wants a balance of performance and practicality. These setting are also for the autoXer not for people slamming their car 4". Feel free to ask questions.

[fernandoleon]

i am about to install eibach sportsline springs with kyb shocks on my 92 accord. i was wondering if i need to put on camber plates so i wont ruin my tires. it seems exsessive since i wont be racing or adjusting my camber at all, it would just be to keep the stock measurements. any opinions would be appreciated

[Dezoris]

Find a camber kit you want, decide on one and a place to get it.
By a kit for the front and rear, make sure it can be returned, uif not used.
Get your parts installed, and see if they are able to align it to those specs. Most Hondas a quite adjustable in the front but the rear can cause problems. If they can get it to your satisfaction, return the kits, if not then you are prepared. I don't think you'll need them, but every car is different. Just be prepared!

[ToadBoy]

Every Honda/Acura needs a camber kit when lowered more than an inch. Most springs out there will lower a Honda close to two inchs. I've worked with Accords, Preludes, Civics, and Integras. I've done the lowering of these cars myself. I have an integra and installing camber kits with an alignment. It save me from buying two extra sets of tires a year (i know this because I drove my car without camber kits). In fact it made my one set of tires last two years. I think I could still get another year off of the tires. I also drive my car hard around corners and the tires are still not worn out. 4 tires usually cost about $200-$800 depending on your tire size. A camber kit will easily cost you less than $300. You only need to make this purchase once. I saved my self $800 for not buying 4 extra sets of tires (i'm running on stock 14" wheels). If I had 17" wheels I would have saved $2000 if 4 tires cost $500 with mounting and balancing. Could you image all of the things you can buy for your car for $2000. Even if you don't get a camber kit, you still need to align your car when you lower it, regardless of how low.

:frog:

[Kohhal]

Well here's my 2 cents. I've been dropped about 2 inches for almost a year now. I never got an alignment or camber kit. So how's my car doing? Well, my tyre wear is even, no problems there, maybe it's just cos your roads over there are so straight? And as far as getting an alignment, the car steered fine when I dropped it so I didn't bother. Maybe I just got lucky?

[ToadBoy]

My brother had a 96 civic. Lowered it 2 inches. The tires got fucked. They were all worn out on the inside after a year. The alignment is needed to correct the toe, not just to make the car go straight. Of course the car will still steer straight after the alignment, but the toe is out of wack. You're probably have not experienced any abnormal tire wear because you have been driving on mostly dirt or wet roads.

[Dezoris]

Originally posted by TheMasterG
Well here's my 2 cents. I've been dropped about 2 inches for almost a year now. I never got an alignment or camber kit. So how's my car doing? Well, my tyre wear is even, no problems there, maybe it's just cos your roads over there are so straight? And as far as getting an alignment, the car steered fine when I dropped it so I didn't bother. Maybe I just got lucky?

You could be one of those people who made out well, but I bet if you went to get it checked, they would tell you at least your toe is off.
But that is why everyone is different, I still recommend at the very least having it checked, maybe you sould do that for kicks and post up your specs?

[Kohhal]

I agree with you, if I got it checked they would probably tell me it's off slightly but I've got no problems with tyre wear or steering/tracking so why should I waste money on something like that. It handles beautifully and so I'll carry on the way I am. And no, I don't always drive on dirt roads, we ain't that backward here you know! Same thing goes for the wet, it doesn't rain all the time here contrary to popular belief

Edit: Ps. Nobody in Europe gets camber kits and most haven't heard of them, seems to me it's a US only thing, probably because of your long straight roads. And excessive tyre wear isn't a problem here either

[Dezoris]

well I think it is more of an issue because people over here slam their shit like they were on a sled, so, to correct these drops (most excessive) they have no choice.

I myself on the other hand, have seen what can be done having the abilty to completely adjust your suspension, you would not believe most hondas are capable of. So yes I am performance minded in that regards, that is where I come from, but also understand that most people could care less. If it works and your tires are fine, bless you!

[Kohhal]

I never said I didn't care and I am performance minded like yourself. If I didn't I wouldn't have spent a fortune on KONI true coilovers(adjustable ride and height). What I am saying is that I've had no adverse affects from lowering it, if it ain't broke why fix it? And we slam our rides in Europe as much as you guys but from what I've read you guys recommend camber kits if you're dropped more than 1.75", not exactly slammed.

[ToadBoy]

Don't you guys in Ireland use metric? You said two inches, rather than 50mm. It could be the road that is making the difference. It seems like the only difference. As for every lowered Honda in California, they all seem to get bad tire wear if not correctly aligned (toe and camber). At least get the alignment even if the tire wear is not evident. You want your car to be at least up to specs so it handles the way it's suppose to handle. Most lowered cars inherit a positive tow when lowered. Positive toe in the rear made my car fishtail. Honda's usually have a slight negative toe as well as camber in the rear, and an almost neutral toe and camber in the front.

[Kohhal]

Yep we use metric, but I said inches so as not to confuse you yanks
And I think it's the roads that make a difference, we don't get too many straight runs, winding roads everywhere.
And as for the alignment, I'll be getting it after my engine swap, as I'll be racing it then and want everything spot on

[Dezoris]

Originally posted by TheMasterG
I never said I didn't care and I am performance minded like yourself. If I didn't I wouldn't have spent a fortune on KONI true coilovers(adjustable ride and height). What I am saying is that I've had no adverse affects from lowering it, if it ain't broke why fix it? And we slam our rides in Europe as much as you guys but from what I've read you guys recommend camber kits if you're dropped more than 1.75", not exactly slammed.

I did not mean you persue, just as you said if it aint broke don't fix it

[Veetec]

Originally posted by Dezoris
well I think it is more of an issue because people over here slam their shit like they were on a sled, so, to correct these drops (most excessive) they have no choice.

I myself on the other hand, have seen what can be done having the abilty to completely adjust your suspension, you would not believe most hondas are capable of. So yes I am performance minded in that regards, that is where I come from, but also understand that most people could care less. If it works and your tires are fine, bless you!

Well, I´m from germany and most germans love their car more than anything else! We have a lot of phat Beamers, Golfs, Mercedes, Porsches (and of course Hondas while they aren´t that common) and stuff like that which are also slammed to the ground without a camber kit. I´m using Konis on my current ride and handling is very good and tire wear is not a big problem for me neither. Nearly anybody knows what a camber kit is over here, too!

[Dezoris]

Originally posted by Veetec

Well, I´m from germany and most germans love their car more than anything else! We have a lot of phat Beamers, Golfs, Mercedes, Porsches (and of course Hondas while they aren´t that common) and stuff like that which are also slammed to the ground without a camber kit. I´m using Konis on my current ride and handling is very good and tire wear is not a big problem for me neither. Nearly anybody knows what a camber kit is over here, too!

Statement retracted, I have no clue then, there is more of an emphasis, on maintaining factory alignments, here? Or people like me harping it

I hear a lot of people saying they are ok, what does that mean?
You are saying it rides fine, my point is your alignment specs are off.
But I know I am just repeating myself sorry.