Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Oldsmobile > Silhouette
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-10-2007, 10:44 PM   #1
shelzmike
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rocky Mount, Virginia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Hello!

I am sure the moderators may not be too happy about me starting a new thread about Dexcool, as there are so many others in the forums. However, I have found that there is too much info for me to sort through, plus I cannot find many forums that are current (in case any info that is more current is available).

Okay, here is the situation - my wife and I just had our third child and were in desparate need of a van, but at a budget price of course. After much searching, I was able to find a 2000 Olds Silhouette for a great price. There is around 96,000 miles on it and it seems, thus far to drive and operate very well. No excessive temps, idles smooth, accelerates properly, etc.

Well, as I was instpecting the engine earlier today, I noticed two things related to the coolant - one the res. was low, and two I have the ever-present sludge buildup in the res. With nothing to compare it too, I cannot say for sure if it is a lot or not. If I had to guess, I would say it is a moderate amount.

This, of course concerned me, and having no experience with GMs or Dexcool (this is my first GM), I turned to the net. Much to my dismay, I was bombarded with story after story of horrors associated with it.

Long story short - I arrived here. I need guidance on what steps I can take to correct the problem. Opinions are good, which are most of what I have read, but I need actual guidance. My situation - low budget, moderate knowledge of engines, but with complete competence to do just about anything with them with the proper research and guidance. That being said, I want to avoid taking the van to a GM dealer at all costs (literally!), and would not mind taking to a regular mechanic, but would rather do something myself if possible.

To let you in on what I do know is that the problem appears to lie in the fact that the mfg. says Dexcool is good for 100,000 or so miles and many people take this to mean they do not have to worry about it at all. The res. gets low and air gets introduced.

Is there any advice that anyone can give me on where to start, and what steps I can take to clean as much, if not all out of the system. Bear in mind that I may need clarification on some specific terminology, but again am pretty confident that I can do whatever is necessary myself.

The one hesitance that I have is that the system seems to be performing well, the temp stays at a normal running temp even up and down the mountains in the area, air works heat works, so should I even do anything other than a top-off? (I am pretty sure that this is a duh answer, but I figured I'd see what response I got.

Thanks in advance for any help!
shelzmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 01:44 AM   #2
GregA
AF Enthusiast
 
GregA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 801
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Hi and Welcome to the forum!

Let me start with a question or two:
Do you know the maintenance history of the van?
Have you had any "regular maintenance" work done on the van since you got it or before you got it?

When I got my 2001 van back in 2004, one of the first things I did was take it to my regular mechanic and gave it a "safety inspection". I also had them check everything else out at the same time, fluids, belt, filters, brakes, etc.

That being said, I would recommend that you do something similar. If you are concerned about the cooling system, do a flush, get a new radiator cap, clean out the overflow bottle, get new coolant, bleed the system, the whole works.

You might try to changed the thermostat, but mine is a real pain to get to. And if yours is maintaining normal temperatures, it may not be worth it.

Once all that is done, just keep an eye on it. Keep the overflow bottle full and check it every week or so.

Change the oil when it is time, and look into the past maintenance. Take care of the van and it should get you through.

Also, check out the other GM Minivan forums here: Chevy Venture, Pontiac Montana, and Pontiac Trans Sport. They are all basically the same with slight differences in trim and options.

Take Care & Again - Welcome!
__________________
Greg A.
2001 Chevy Venture w/some "enhancements" ~ 105K Miles (Dec. 2010)
1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, 4.0L, Automatic ~ 155K Miles (Dec 2010)
GregA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 08:02 AM   #3
shelzmike
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rocky Mount, Virginia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA

Do you know the maintenance history of the van?
Have you had any "regular maintenance" work done on the van since you got it or before you got it?
It is funny that you asked me that. I just got the van yesterday. I pulled a Carfax before I purchased and there was nothing on there that was bad. There was several listings for "vehicle serviced" and even listed where it was serviced; however, did not say what was actually done. I plan on calling those places today to see if they can help me figure out what was done and when. The only downfall obviously is that this is probably not everytime it was ever serviced and would not attribute anything to self-service. I will update you on what I find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA
If you are concerned about the cooling system, do a flush, get a new radiator cap, clean out the overflow bottle, get new coolant, bleed the system, the whole works.
I am absolutely concerned about the cooling system and plan on doing this. While I have never done this before, from what I have read on how to do this (albeit many different ways), I am confident that I can get it done. However, do you have any advice on a best practices in completeing this? Steps? Any particular flushesto use? Any special tools? Etc. Also, I have read that air+dexcool is what causes the sludge - hence the need to bleed the system. This is one of the only things that I am unfamiliar with. Any advice on how to do this the easiest (or best) way? Finally, should I put Dexcool back in. This is where opinion has clouded the facts - many people say that it is all i should use, but then some people reference Prestone Extended Life as an alternative, with not as many problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA
You might try to changed the thermostat, but mine is a real pain to get to. And if yours is maintaining normal temperatures, it may not be worth it.
At this point,I do not think that this is necessary because, as you pointed out, the van is maintaining normal temperatures and when I brought it home yesterday, I drove about 50 miles over the mountains (mostly uphill!) and when I got home - still normal.

You mentioned that it is a real pain to get to - I believe it. The one thing that intimdates me is how jammed and hard to get to 90% of the engine looks like it is. I appreciate your help!

Mike
shelzmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 12:58 PM   #4
'97ventureowner
AF Moderator
 
'97ventureowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: syracuse, New York
Posts: 11,311
Thanks: 3
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Hello,and welcome also to AF. As a moderator let me THANK YOU for starting a new thread. Actually we are happy when someone starts a new thread rather than resurrect an older one. It's in the Community Guidelines as well.
I would take the van to a shop that specializes in radiator flushes and get the cooling system thoroughly flushed out including the overflow tank. Replace the thermostat and the radiator cap as well. It has been found in the past that one source of air infiltration into the cooling system was attributed to a faulty radiator cap. Stant is a good brand to get as a replacement. I would refill the van with Dex Cool because it was specifically designed for your engine. A few years back it was thought that you could switch to the old green coolant which was ethylene glycol based without any problems. But now it is recommended to stick with the Dex cool which is totally different. It is an OAT (Organic Acid Technology) based coolant and has a different protection package built into the product than the ethylene glycol. A major change in the thinking of Dex Cool is to now change it more frequently than the original GM recommendation of 5 year/150,000 miles. It should be treated like the old green coolant and changed every 2 to 3 years or 30 to 40,000 miles for optimal effect.
I fit comes down to a faulty intake gasket you have a couple of choices. You can attempt the job yourself, or take it to a garage to do it. One "pro" of doing it yourself is that you can save money, the cons are the amount of time it takes to do the job( very labor intensive) and the skill level needed, ( should have a good knowledge of how a vehicle is put together.)You also need to get a manual such as Haynes (first choice) or Chilton. You can also opt for a factory service manual which costs more ( fairly reasonable on eBay if you can find one,)and are more detailed.
If you opt to take it to a garage, I would not recommend a stealership as their prices are way too high. Find a good independent garage in your area,( ask family ,friends, neighbors for names,)and go there. You can expect to pay from $500 to $900 for the job through an independent garage.
You are right in saying that people assume that he Dex Cool can last a long time and not need service when just the opposite is true. Keeping an eye on it and servicing it more frequently than was once recommended should give you many trouble free miles. Good luck.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that if you decide to tackle the job your self there is a wealth of info on this site in the Chevrolet Venture, Pontiac Montana and this Silhouette forum. Just use the search function to find the appropriate threads. A good start is this thread found in the Venture forum:http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=321467
__________________
Thought for the Day… Alcohol does not make you fat - It makes you lean... against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.



If a prostitute here in America loses her job to a prostitute in India , is that considered "outwhoring"??-Jay Leno

" A Good Thing To Know"
'97ventureowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 03:42 PM   #5
shelzmike
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rocky Mount, Virginia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Thanks for the welcome, and the advice.

I am not sure if I need to replace the intake gasket just yet. It appears from looking externally that it may have been replaced sometime in the recent past. Also, the thermostat seems to be regulating pretty well at this point in time. However...

I have some new information since my last post. I just took the van by the junk yard to get a new headlight assembly - the one on there now was cracked and repaired, but not very well. I turned every distraction off and listened intently as well as watched the temp gauge intently. Several things I noticed:

1.) Engine sounds like it is running normally and smoothly.
2.) The heater does in fact work very well (as does the AC - although I know they are not related!)
3.) The temp rose fairly steadily but somewhat quickly. Now, I am not sure how fast is normal as I have never watched before. By the way, it is about 80 degrees outside and raining. Within about a mile and a half - the temp was at half on the gauge. I suppose this is somewhat normal for an engine that has 90,000 miles on it. I started to get a little nervous as it started creeping up a bit more, but then I guess the thermostat started working as it started to go back down. It held steady at exactly the halfway mark during the rest of my driving. This was the same place that the temp sat all the way home over the mountain yesterday.
4.) Now - I went to Arbys and was sitting at the window watching the gauge. Not suprisingly, the temp started to go up and made it to the 3/4 mark and just above before I drove off. I was probably sitting there for mabye 4-5 minutes (crappy service, I know!). Once I pulled off and started driving again, the temp went back down to halfway, and a little under almost immediately.

Like I said, the sludge buildup in the res. lets me know that regardless I need to flush the radiator.

Here is what I am thinking - you mentioned to take it to a flush shop and have it flushed. I really do not want to do this if I can help it. Just spent money getting it and would like to do it myself. With my knowledge of engines and how things work, I believe I am competent enough to get this done myself. The only concern I have is that I need to learn a little more about backflushing and bleeding. Although, I have found some pretty good resources online on how to do this.

I think I will take it one step at a time. Basically, I will flush the system very good - as many times as it takes. I will see how it runs then. If it still is running too close for comfort to the high mark on the temp gauge, then I will look at getting the thermostat repaced as well as get the gasket looked at and replaced.

Now, regarding Dexcool - I have no problem using it, but if I am doing it myself, where can I purchase it? Does the big two have it? Or do I need to buy from dealer? Also, I know that you should not use the standard green, but have also read that you can use Prestones Extended Life and they are compatible. What have you heard?

Finally, I got in touch with service shop that did the only services listed on CARFAX. Good news is nothing too major, bad news is that I am positive that more repairs were done and not reported and I am SOL on that unless I can contact the previous owner - would not even know how to get that info.

There where 3 services - 1.) Recall fix of door 2.) oil light coming on - was because the sensor was loose. 3.) The transmission was serviced somewhere else and was shifting hard form 3rd and 4th - however, the owner declined the service from the dealer. At some point in time this had to have been fixed though because it shifts smooth as silk now.

Thanks again!

Mike
shelzmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 06:29 PM   #6
'97ventureowner
AF Moderator
 
'97ventureowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: syracuse, New York
Posts: 11,311
Thanks: 3
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelzmike
Thanks for the welcome, and the advice.

I am not sure if I need to replace the intake gasket just yet. It appears from looking externally that it may have been replaced sometime in the recent past. Also, the thermostat seems to be regulating pretty well at this point in time.
I know you don't want to hear this, but we are starting to get reports that even the second intake gasket has been known to fail in some instances. There is a new updated gasket to HOPEFULLY fix it this time. I'm just throwing that out there so you will know. It is a possibility, although remote. I always like to know all the info up front when I deal with something like this.

Quote:
I have some new information since my last post. I just took the van by the junk yard to get a new headlight assembly - the one on there now was cracked and repaired, but not very well. I turned every distraction off and listened intently as well as watched the temp gauge intently. Several things I noticed:

3.) The temp rose fairly steadily but somewhat quickly. Now, I am not sure how fast is normal as I have never watched before. By the way, it is about 80 degrees outside and raining. Within about a mile and a half - the temp was at half on the gauge. I suppose this is somewhat normal for an engine that has 90,000 miles on it. I started to get a little nervous as it started creeping up a bit more, but then I guess the thermostat started working as it started to go back down. It held steady at exactly the halfway mark during the rest of my driving. This was the same place that the temp sat all the way home over the mountain yesterday.
4.) Now - I went to Arbys and was sitting at the window watching the gauge. Not suprisingly, the temp started to go up and made it to the 3/4 mark and just above before I drove off. I was probably sitting there for mabye 4-5 minutes (crappy service, I know!). Once I pulled off and started driving again, the temp went back down to halfway, and a little under almost immediately.
That is fairly normal for these vans. there are some posts related to this over in the Venture forum. Both of my '97s did that too.
Quote:
Here is what I am thinking - you mentioned to take it to a flush shop and have it flushed. I really do not want to do this if I can help it. Just spent money getting it and would like to do it myself. With my knowledge of engines and how things work, I believe I am competent enough to get this done myself. The only concern I have is that I need to learn a little more about backflushing and bleeding. Although, I have found some pretty good resources online on how to do this.
No problem. I just recommend it because the shops' equipment seems to do a better job at removing more of the sludge quicker. It can take awhile to remove all the sludge as it really "sets up shop" inside the engine and can be really difficult to remove. Earlier, you mentioned about the thermostat. I have always recommended that the thermostat be removed for flushing and replaced with a new one, even if it "seems to be all right". I figure for the cost of the thermostat, it's good insurance to replace it, and good preventative maintenance. You can do whatever you want however.
Quote:
Now, regarding Dexcool - I have no problem using it, but if I am doing it myself, where can I purchase it? Does the big two have it? Or do I need to buy from dealer? Also, I know that you should not use the standard green, but have also read that you can use Prestones Extended Life and they are compatible. What have you heard?
I've always used Havoline® Extended Life Anti-Freeze/Coolant DEX-COOL® purchased from Wal Mart when I needed to get it. http://www.havoline.com/products/na/...e_01_tech.html
__________________
Thought for the Day… Alcohol does not make you fat - It makes you lean... against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.



If a prostitute here in America loses her job to a prostitute in India , is that considered "outwhoring"??-Jay Leno

" A Good Thing To Know"
'97ventureowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 09:27 PM   #7
shelzmike
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rocky Mount, Virginia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Hey! I hope this gasket holds, either way it is up to God now! I will cross that proverbial bridge when I get to it.

I get your point about having the shop do the flush. However, I am and have always been a do-it-yourselfer (on most things, that is - As Kenny Rogers said, I know when to fold them and know when to walk away - I can't believe I just quoted Kenny Rogers!) and think that I will do the initial flush myself and do it several times with the products that are available currently. I will also intently check the coolant to see any traces of sludge. If I do it enough times it will eventually work itself out.

I can say I feel a little better about things now - I went to Second Chance earlier today and bought a Haynes manual - now we are in business! I believe I will change the thermstat as it is fairly easy to get to.

I plan on doing it this weekend, so I will update the post with the results. By the way, the one thing that I am still unsure of is the bleeding of the air from the system. How is this achieved? I have read that this is an important step, but I have also seen many places not even mention this step. I heard that a reason that DexCool creates the sludge in the first place is because air gets introduced into the cooling system due to low levels or leaks. Any posts related to that that you know of?

And WOW - leave it to manufactures to put the simplest things in the hardest places to reach. I was looking at the eingine today and realized that the back 3 plugs and coil are nearly under the dash! I saw in the Haynes manual that they only way to get to those plugs is by rotating the engine forward and removing the coil assembly.

So, Haynes has the procedure for rotating the engine forward, and according to them, there is only like 7 simple steps and then you rotate it using a ratched tie-down. However, I think it appears to be more simple in the manual than it really is. Is this the case, or am I wrong? I have never done this before and I am a little worried to do it myself. For instance, the manual doesn't say how far to rotate it forward (when to stop) and what things to watch out for - crushed pipes and other parts, etc. Is this a normal procedure that is pretty easy to do? My pride and wallet just cannot accept That I would have to take this to a shop just to change the plugs! What do you think?

Oh yeah, I have another question, but it is unrelated so I will start another post (rules are rules).

Mike
shelzmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 09:54 PM   #8
'97ventureowner
AF Moderator
 
'97ventureowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: syracuse, New York
Posts: 11,311
Thanks: 3
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Check that link I posted in an earlier post that is over in the Chevrolet Venture forum. It has a lot of supplemental info by other members who have already done the job and their perspectives. It's so big, it's the first post that's permanently "stickied" to the top of the forum.
__________________
Thought for the Day… Alcohol does not make you fat - It makes you lean... against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.



If a prostitute here in America loses her job to a prostitute in India , is that considered "outwhoring"??-Jay Leno

" A Good Thing To Know"
'97ventureowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2007, 10:32 PM   #9
GregA
AF Enthusiast
 
GregA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 801
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelzmike
4.) ... Now - I went to Arbys and was sitting at the window watching the gauge. Not suprisingly, the temp started to go up and made it to the 3/4 mark and just above before I drove off. ...
If you want to see how the cooling system should work, check out the link below. It is to one of my pages.

Engine Cooling System

Take Care,
__________________
Greg A.
2001 Chevy Venture w/some "enhancements" ~ 105K Miles (Dec. 2010)
1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, 4.0L, Automatic ~ 155K Miles (Dec 2010)
GregA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 12:10 AM   #10
rockwood84
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: eupora, Mississippi
Posts: 1,002
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

as for as i can see it must be normal for the temp gauge to get a little over the half mark before the fans kick on. when you start to loose dexcool out of the resivior on a regular basis then it will probably be the intakes the head gasket set is about $50.00 and it takes about three days to tear it down and put it back together and haynes is a good manual to use. i have put intakes in mine twice. the last time was due to the fuel pump refusing to die.
it caused the engine to backfire and i guess concusioned every sensor on it plus the back intake. and the fuel pumps are high best price i could find $320.00 and that was me installing it. as for as some of the worst problems
one any one make of vehicle it must make the old edsil smile
rockwood84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2007, 03:06 PM   #11
shelzmike
AF Newbie
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rocky Mount, Virginia
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

It is the weirdest thing. I went out earlier today and it never got above the 1/4 mark - even at stop lights. It is not as hot today, so maybe that has something to do with it. Who knows?

I do know that I need to do the flush and I will be doing that this weekend. I will also use this time to get under and see what the situation is around the IMG.

Good news is that, although the oil needs to be changed (P.O.S. Used car dealer apparently didn't do it, go figure), I do not see the caramel or mayonnaise consistency and color on the oil cap - which is a good sign. And, as far as I can tell, the coolant is not getting low in the res, so I think I may be good on that. I will keep my fingers crossed.However, I am not as worried about having to change the IMG if needed. I realize it takes some time, but I should not have any problems with all the info on the post mentioned above as well as the Haynes Manual. Thanks!

Mike
shelzmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2007, 10:52 AM   #12
kidfam
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wetumpka, Alabama
Posts: 85
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Dexcool - New thread about a recurring problem

Take it from someone that found out the hard way. Get is checked by someone ASAP. I blew and engine a few years ago and upon INTERNET investigation I believe it was from the Dexcool problem.

What happened to me is that we purchased our 98 Silhouette van used in 2002. My wife was taking my daughter to school and the van just died. It was towed to the dealer where they said the engine had seized and $3700 and a new engine later we got it back but the sludge was still in the reservoir. I flushed out the cooling system myself and it was quite a job. The radiator and whole system were really gunked up. The dealer never admitted the blown engine was due to the Dexcool (we all here know it was).

Honestly, I hope you have better luck with yours than I have. This vehicle has been nothing but a lemon and money pit for me. Even now the stupid van is in the shop getting the tranny ($1800) fixed and also it has a leaky intake manifold gasket.
kidfam is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD

Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Oldsmobile > Silhouette

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:49 AM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts