Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Automotive Art > Car Modeling
Car Modeling Share your passion for car modeling here! Includes sub-forum for "in progress" and "completed" vehicles.
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-13-2012, 11:12 PM   #1
Hemi Killer
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 610
Thanks: 108
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

So I spent the last several days after work painting my F40 body, masking, painting hedliight buckets etc. I used Zero paint. It went on a little thick but no issues. Went to sand it smooth today and it went through. It didnt even get the texture smooth before it burned through. I am ruining body after body and it's killing me.

I have never succesfully painted/sanded/polished a body without burning through. I honestly want to just light everying on fire.

anyway, I realized a few things.

1. started with micromesh 4000, then dropped down to 3200 to get it smooth. Because its so light, the sandpaper burned through the paint from friction before it had a chance to actually sand the paint smooth

2. I used Tamiya 1000 sandpaper on some other areas. Paint got smooth FAST, but ended up burning through as well.

3. I have a Paasche airbrush, dual action. I used the samllest needle they make, #0 or #1 I forget. Paint seemed to go on nicely, but is this a bad idea? Did it not lay down enough paint per layer?

I noticed even on some of the bigger flat parts it went through, obviously there was not nearly enough paint.

I did 2-3 coats I cant remember, but the first 2 were mist coats. I basically just painted untill there was solid color everywhere. I guess I should have done another two coats?

This is my weak part, I just cant seem to get it right. Any help would be appreciated.
Hemi Killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 11:17 PM   #2
360spider
AF Moderator
 
360spider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 3,246
Thanks: 31
Thanked 314 Times in 241 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

I don't know, when I spray Zero paints it goes on so smooth I don't even have to sand it - just clearcoat and done.
__________________
The client is not always right. - Enzo Ferrari
ItalianHorses.net
360spider is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 360spider For This Useful Post:
Hemi Killer (06-14-2012)
Old 06-13-2012, 11:37 PM   #3
Hemi Killer
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 610
Thanks: 108
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by 360spider View Post
I don't know, when I spray Zero paints it goes on so smooth I don't even have to sand it - just clearcoat and done.
Im starting to think it may be literally too hot to paint, even inside. its 110 here and we keep the house at 78. My spray booth is next to the window, im wondering if its just drying too fast and not settling out.

1. what PSI do you spray your Zero at?

2. I know I can thin their clear, can I thin the paint a bit?
Hemi Killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 11:46 PM   #4
turbothirtytwo
AF Regular
 
turbothirtytwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 227
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

zero paint is automotive paint. it dont need to be sanded and it makes very thin coats, so thats why you burn trough. dont bother with flatening base paint just shot it with good amount of clear and polish that
turbothirtytwo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to turbothirtytwo For This Useful Post:
Hemi Killer (06-14-2012)
Old 06-14-2012, 12:11 AM   #5
Hemi Killer
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 610
Thanks: 108
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbothirtytwo View Post
zero paint is automotive paint. it dont need to be sanded and it makes very thin coats, so thats why you burn trough. dont bother with flatening base paint just shot it with good amount of clear and polish that
It had a lot of texture, too much in my opinion but I may be wrong. It seems like the clear coat would follow that texture and I wouldn't end up going through to the paint before I got it flat.

Thank you so far, I appreciate it
Hemi Killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 01:07 AM   #6
sjelic
AF Enthusiast
 
sjelic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Zagreb
Posts: 2,176
Thanks: 4
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to sjelic
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Just thin it a bit more, don't wory about a bit of texture, you will never sand it smooth withouth burning through, thin it and don't go to light, shoot the paint the same way you do clear and after clear you can send away.
__________________
Sasa Jelic

SCALEMAKERS

MK Grunf modelling club Croatia
sjelic is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sjelic For This Useful Post:
Hemi Killer (06-14-2012)
Old 06-14-2012, 01:46 AM   #7
jmtomservo
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 34
Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

I agree with what has been said so far, but I had better luck with Zero paints by switching to a larger needle and nozzle. On my Iwata eclipse, it seemed to help when I switched from 0.35mm to 0.5mm needle and nozzle. (I even think Zero recommends at least a 0.5mm needle for the clear coats.)

With the smaller nozzle I was having to spray at a higher pressure (30psi+) to get a fine mist (instead of rough stippling) and even using mist coats, the finish was so rough you could rub your finger across it and the top layer would brush off almost like chalk dust.

Now with the larger nozzle I spray at 20psi with no problems. I also had the most trouble with their white primer and pure white. They needed to be thinned down probably 20-25%. I haven't had any trouble though with actual colors.
jmtomservo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 01:51 AM   #8
potsie
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,383
Thanks: 0
Thanked 69 Times in 69 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

I have not used Zero Paints yet, but I have a questions about your sandpaper. Reading your post I got the impression you were using a lower number paper to get things smooth - e.g. "started with micromesh 4000, then dropped down to 3200 to get it smooth". Sandpapers gets finer, and therefore better for "smoothing", as the number goes up. In other words, 3200 grit is more coarse than 4000 grit. Maybe I have misinterpreted your post though.
potsie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 01:58 AM   #9
Hemi Killer
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 610
Thanks: 108
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by potsie View Post
I have not used Zero Paints yet, but I have a questions about your sandpaper. Reading your post I got the impression you were using a lower number paper to get things smooth - e.g. "started with micromesh 4000, then dropped down to 3200 to get it smooth". Sandpapers gets finer, and therefore better for "smoothing", as the number goes up. In other words, 3200 grit is more coarse than 4000 grit. Maybe I have misinterpreted your post though.
I wasn't clear, sorry. I started with 4000 but it wasn't doing the job so I dropped down to 3200. That was better but it wasn't doing a good job. Just the friction alone burned through before it actually sanded the paint smooth.
Hemi Killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 07:59 AM   #10
MidMazar
AF Fanatic
 
MidMazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hartford, Connecticut
Posts: 5,601
Thanks: 7
Thanked 108 Times in 103 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

At first i thought you were using the sand paper in the wrong procedure, but you explained why you dropped down. Also make sure you wet sand and not dry sand. With the paint you have to experiment a few times to get the painting process down with different psi and thinning. Get some plastic sheets or plexiglass as its cheaper than a body and practice a few different setups. Good luck.
__________________
In Progress
MidMazar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 08:00 AM   #11
Exotics_Builder
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Northwest Chicago Suburbs, Illinois
Posts: 353
Thanks: 17
Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi Killer View Post
I wasn't clear, sorry. I started with 4000 but it wasn't doing the job so I dropped down to 3200. That was better but it wasn't doing a good job. Just the friction alone burned through before it actually sanded the paint smooth.
If I may ask since your post didn't express it, how much pressure are you applying as you use the sandpaper? The Micromesh grits should have no significant pressure applied as you are trying to smooth it out. Heavier pressure can cause burn through regardless of thickness of the coat.

That said, I think the previous comments may be pointing to the fact that the paint may be drying before contact, giving you a rough surface. Some years back I had a similar problem with MCW paints that required some experimetation to get it to lay down smooth.

If you have some practice bodies, use them to work on your technique and remember to be gentle with the polishing cloths.
Exotics_Builder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #12
roymattblack
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IPSWICH
Posts: 171
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

To me, it seems like you're using far too rough Micromesh.
I use 6000 to START with, then go down to 12000 for a mega-shine.
If I were you, I'd bin the 3200 and 4000 and get some real fine stuff, especially with airbrushed paint.
It might seem like it's going on thick, but it really isn't. Your layer of paint is probably 1/2 the thickness of a sheet of thin paper so it will burn through really easily.
Seriously, use MUCH finer Micromesh.
You'll be gobsmacked at the shine 12000 will give you.
ALSO..... Remember that Zero paints are MATT FINISH.
They HAVE to be clear gloss coated to get a shine.
You can Micromesh Zero paint until your fingers drop off and it WON'T ever shine without a gloss clear coat.
Finally, if you're giving 2 x mist coats, give it another 3-4 top coats, then one last 'wet' coat.
2 x mist and a final top isn't enough.
I've sometimes given car bodies as much as 8 - 10 coats.

Roy.
roymattblack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 10:54 AM   #13
Hemi Killer
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 610
Thanks: 108
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Quote:
Originally Posted by roymattblack View Post
To me, it seems like you're using far too rough Micromesh.
I use 6000 to START with, then go down to 12000 for a mega-shine.
If I were you, I'd bin the 3200 and 4000 and get some real fine stuff, especially with airbrushed paint.
It might seem like it's going on thick, but it really isn't. Your layer of paint is probably 1/2 the thickness of a sheet of thin paper so it will burn through really easily.
Seriously, use MUCH finer Micromesh.
You'll be gobsmacked at the shine 12000 will give you.
ALSO..... Remember that Zero paints are MATT FINISH.

They HAVE to be clear gloss coated to get a shine.
You can Micromesh Zero paint until your fingers drop off and it WON'T ever shine without a gloss clear coat.
Finally, if you're giving 2 x mist coats, give it another 3-4 top coats, then one last 'wet' coat.
2 x mist and a final top isn't enough.
I've sometimes given car bodies as much as 8 - 10 coats.

Roy.

Roy thank you for your time but im aware of this. The reason i dropped down so low is because the 4000 wasnt agressive enough to get it smooth. Ihave the other higher grits but they were useless.

Your comment about the coats though helps alot. I was wondering i was apply enough coats. I have since sandesd all the yellow smooth down to tge primer. I will mask off and respray tonight after i mess around a bit

Things i will change.

1. Move up from the smallest needle to the next size

2. Instead of two mist coats and one wet coat i will do three mist coats and 2the wet coats

3. Thinkthe paint a bit
And see if i can cool down the room more



Are mist coats easier to sand down than wet coats after theyve cured?

Thank you everyone. I thinnk if i actually saw someone do it i would understand it immediately.
Hemi Killer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 11:02 AM   #14
stevenoble
AF Enthusiast
 
stevenoble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Barnsley
Posts: 3,199
Thanks: 8
Thanked 111 Times in 107 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Are you sanding the basecoat colour without any clear..?? That's why you're burning through. They are not designed to be sanded back, in fact they work better without sanding. Unless you have some major defect in the paint or some serious roughness you shouldn't sand it. A little texture is normal with basecoat paints, so don't worry about that. The clear will level everything out and provide the smoothness and gloss you desire. From the sound of it I think you need to add more thinner to the paint as well. They say pre-thinned but they are still very thick. I always add more thinner for better results. Try some different pressures. Start at 20 psi and increase bit by bit until you find the best working pressure for your airbrush.
__________________
Steve Noble
stevenoble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 11:25 AM   #15
stevenoble
AF Enthusiast
 
stevenoble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Barnsley
Posts: 3,199
Thanks: 8
Thanked 111 Times in 107 Posts
Re: Severe painting issues, it never ends. Need help

Best I can do is a before and after clear example for you, hope it helps...

Before



After



Look how the colours change and darken especially the black which looks almost grey before the clear is added. Don't be too hung up on achieving a flawless finish with the basecoat because it's just that, a basecoat...
__________________
Steve Noble
stevenoble is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1985 Nissan Maxima - 3.0 Liter V6 - Many issues - Need HELP! wallacengineering Nissan Cefiro | Nissan Maxima | Infiniti I30 | Infiniti I35 1 06-06-2011 12:02 PM
Issue Exhaust i need help s10blazerman4x4 Cutlass Series 0 04-17-2006 09:56 PM
rubbing noise in front end. need help. capoeta Caravan | Voyager 4 01-05-2006 03:54 PM
I have two issues, that I need help with njdjh2o Thunderbird 17 03-07-2005 02:09 PM
at wits end - Need Help! fast.asleep Rodeo | Passport | MU 5 07-29-2004 08:04 PM

Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD

Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Automotive Art > Car Modeling

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 AM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts