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View Poll Results: What do you think of Hyundai?
They are good and quality cars 3 50.00%
They are junk 3 50.00%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-04-2008, 01:51 PM   #76
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

I copy from Edmunds.com

Top 10 Cars With the Worst Residual Value for 2008

Residual value is more important than most new-car shoppers realize. Higher residual values mean lower monthly payments if you opt to lease, and improved resale value if you decide to purchase your new ride. This list takes a look at the 2008 cars with the worst resale values; these vehicles are those likely to depreciate the most once you drive them off the lot. Our list includes the percentage of its original value that each vehicle is likely to retain after five years with an annual mileage of 15,000. Residual value percentages are based on the national True Market Value (TMV®) price, plus typical options and destination charge.

1. 2008 Kia Rio — 26.3%
2. 2008 Kia Spectra — 27.0%
3. 2008 Hyundai Accent — 28.0%
4. 2008 Suzuki Reno — 29.2%
5. 2008 Suzuki Forenza — 29.3%
6. 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis — 30.4%
7. 2008 Kia Amanti — 30.6%
8. 2008 Chevrolet Malibu Classic — 30.7%
9. 2008 Hyundai Sonata — 30.8%
10. 2008 Jaguar S-Type — 31.3%

See it below:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/127289/article.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My comment : ...and the winner is...........Hyundai Group! 5 at 10 of the WORST Resale Value between all cars, in a period of 5 years, are of Hyundai Group. Well done Hyundai! You scored 50%! Great Improvements at the new Hyundai group’s models!
I also can not think what happens at the Resale Value of Hyundai Group's cars after the 5 years, in a period of about 7 to 10 years. Terror !!!!!

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Old 09-04-2008, 02:11 PM   #77
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Yet, AGAIN...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
Will you PLEASE read? I've stated this OVER and OVER. Resale value for a brand NEVER shoots up overnight. It takes YEARS...many years, in some cases, for the reputation to catch up with the fact of improved quality.
Since you're back in love with corporate opinions, here's a better one:

Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent: ranked 2nd and 3rd for Initial Quality in the Subcompact segment
Hyundai Elantra: ranked 3rd for Initial Quality in the Compact segment
Hyundai Santa Fe: ranked 2nd for Initial Quality in the Mid-Sized MAV segment

Proving MY point that it takes time for public opinion to catch up to reality. You're ten years behind, shouldn't that be proof enough?
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:33 AM   #78
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Fireworks from Hudson! Mate, you said the key word: Initial.
Those initial-quality surveys deal with problems that surface only in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership. So, you can not tell that a vehicle is good by testing it for 90 days! “Initial Quality” is a joke for cars’ judgement about quality, reliability and durability.
Almost all auto manufacturers have raised the levels of their “initial-quality game”. It have been shown that differences among most brands in the first 90 days have been shrinking into statistical insignificance. Very few cars have major problems on the first months.
Initial quality is quite good across most of the auto industry, and differences are increasingly minor. In fact, last year’s IQS – the most recent available - showed that the spread from the best to the worst brand is less than 0.8 problem per vehicle. That’s insignificant.
Every manufacturer has the ability to make a car with a level of “quality” that will score “high” at Initial Quality Surveys. And almost everyone does it. A manufacturer must be very bad for not having the low level of quality that needs for its cars, not to have troubles in the first days. Furthermore, the number of problems that a car of any brand will appear in these first days, is mostly a matter of luck. Nothing more. That’s why some prestigious brands (e.g. BMW) ranked low in these Surveys.

How is the vehicle after 90 days, a year, or five years have passed? That question is significant because the average owner keeps a car for 5 ½ years these days and a fourth of all motorists keep their cars for at least 8 years.
What’s really important is how your car will treat you long after that new-car smell is gone.

Initial Quality is just a very small part (for me insignificant) of the bigger quality picture. Other surveys by JD Power, by Consumer Reports and others, track quality and durability for 3 and 6 years, respectively. That’s much more important.

How does Hyundai do with long-term reliability? JD Powers definition, from their web site: Long-Term Dependability (VDS): Measured after three years of ownership, VDS examines many of the same areas as IQS, but adds the durability aspect—how well the product holds up with accumulated mileage. Problems are measured using a problems-per-100-vehicles (PP100) designation, with lower PP100 scores indicating higher levels of dependability.
Also from JD Power: "The study (VDS), which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old vehicles, provides useful information to both consumers and the automotive industry on long-term vehicle quality. For consumers, the VDS offers insight into the reliability and dependability of brands and specific models as they approach the end of a typical warranty period. Manufacturers use this information to track the quality performance of their models over time to implement product improvement plans."

Dear Hudson, in those surveys, Hyundai is in the bottom, below average. You want proofs?

The latest JD Power VDS Study 2008: Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability, after Lexus, Mercury, Cadillac, Toyota , Acura, Buick, BMW, Lincoln, Honda, Jaguar, Porsche, Mitsubishi. Do you think that is a good position? I don't.

And consider that the Study is for the 3 years old vehicles. I don't believe that 3 years is "long term". For me, a three years old car is almost new, especially if it has low mileage and "gently" use. I believe that all vehicles of every brand have the (low) level of quality to last for 3-5 years, without appear lots of serious malfunctions. What do you think will happen to Hyundai cars in 5 years, 7 years or 10 years?

My Accent in 10 years (but with "gently" use and low mileage) got lots of problems. I regret it. I compare it with 7 - 30 years old other cars that my friends have and Hyundai is worst than every of these other brands.

You want more proofs? I’ll give you…

JD Power customer satisfaction poll '08 – in Great Britain: Hyundai 17th, KIA 25th between 28 brands!!! Hyundai sucks!
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg


http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/75881243591.jpg

Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey:
  • In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th position between all Manufactures (so sucks!), from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. So “Hyundai Defenders” as we can see from the decreasing absolute points that Hyundai gets, is proving that quality is not stable but many times is decreasing.
  • In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th position between all Manufactures (sucks!), from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006. Conclusion: Worst Hyundai cars than previous years.
  • In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st position between all Manufactures (sucks a lot!), from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2006 showing to us that Hyundai cars are bad but getting even worse than previous years.
See the links if you want:

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008047UK
customer satisfaction index 2008

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008074
German customer satisfaction index 2008

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008066
French customer satisfaction index 2008

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007069
English 2007 reduce

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007106
German 2007 reduce

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007092
French 2007 reduce

More? More…


Germany’s ADAC last reliability 2008 study: The ADAC breakdown statistics are one of the most important surveys of on-the-road passenger car reliability. The statistics were computed on the basis of the approximately 3.75 million times that ADAC personnel provided breakdown assistance last year.
The most reliable cars of this survey in the 8 categories that were tested and checked, were 6 european cars and 2 japs. In the previous years the top position in every category dominated from japs. It seems that the Europeans learned their lesson and improved the quality and reliability. But guess what… in ΑDΑC’s lists we found 3 korean models, the Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson. Those Koreans took the last position in their category… Korean… phioouuuu!

http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/15991/__Germanys-2007-ADAC-reliability-report-part-two-.html


Germany's DEKRA releases 2008 car reliability report: DEKRA is Germany's vehicle certification body and has released its 2008 car reliability study, the research based on some 15 million vehicle tests carried out in the country over the last two years.
In 14 out of the total 21 categories, German brand cars were rated as the most reliable ahead of their foreign rivals' offerings. (My comment: we cann’t accuse DEKRA for favoring the German cars because in the previous years the top positioning were japs).
Interestingly, DEKRA's 2008 figures were adjusted to the cars' mileage rather than their age, as was the case before, in a bid to provide customers with the most accurate vehicle reliability data possible. Do you listen Hudson that you are saying that age is more important than mileage? DEKRA is more experienced than you and says to us that mileage is more important…
The DEKRA 2008 top cars for reliability are (I am showing the results from the high mileage of every category, as the lower mileage is not significant):
MINI/SMALL CARS: Honda Jazz
COMPACT CARS: Volkswagen Golf V
MEDIUM CARS: Audi A4 UPPER MEDIUM/EXECUTIVE CARS: BMW 5-Series
SPORTS CARS/COUPES: Mazda MX-5 (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
SUV: BMW X5
MPV: Volkswagen Touran (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
Did you notice something? Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in those tables, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average. So Hyundai when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term, sucks!

Enough or today...

And for me dear "Hyundai Defenders", do you know what is important?
A real Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI): How long did the average new car customer keep their car.
And a real durability index: How many of the cars (percentage) of every auto maker are still registered after 15 years.
There are no such studies but I know that Hyundai would have ranked low… because I have the experience of Hyundai’s low quality, reliability and durability. I also have the whole market opinion (low resale value).
Dear Hudson, don’t forget that there are also other auto makers that are relatively new in the game like Hyundai, but their cars have bigger resale value. So don’t use the “cheap” excuse that 30 years in the market are not many for Hyundai to gain reputation. Hyundai doesn’t gains reputation and as a consequence has very low resale value, just because it makes cheap cars with low quality, reliability and durability. Hyundai’s cars are not worthing and the market punish them with low resale value.
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:52 AM   #79
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]
Dear Hudson, in those surveys, Hyundai is in the bottom, below average. You want proofs?

The latest JD Power VDS Study 2008: Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability, after Lexus, Mercury, Cadillac, Toyota , Acura, Buick, BMW, Lincoln, Honda, Jaguar, Porsche, Mitsubishi. Do you think that is a good position? I don't.
Average was 206 problems and Hyundai rated 200...which is ABOVE average in the 2008 Vehicle Dependability Survey. That's ABOVE Ford and luxury car maker Infiniti and Mercedes-Benz and Audi and Mini and Volkswagen. Sounds good to me. And FAR from the "bottom" which 344 for Land Rover.

On top of that, your dear Accent rated BEST in the Subcompact category.

Try again.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:03 AM   #80
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

By the way, this is from CNN.com discussing automotive awards (http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/23/Auto...ings/index.htm) in discussing J.D. Power:

The facts: The big kahuna in auto-quality surveys is rock solid in its objectivity and methodology.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:08 AM   #81
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]Germany's DEKRA releases 2008 car reliability report: DEKRA is Germany's vehicle certification body and has released its 2008 car reliability study, the research based on some 15 million vehicle tests carried out in the country over the last two years.
In 14 out of the total 21 categories, German brand cars were rated as the most reliable ahead of their foreign rivals' offerings. (My comment: we cann’t accuse DEKRA for favoring the German cars because in the previous years the top positioning were japs).
Interestingly, DEKRA's 2008 figures were adjusted to the cars' mileage rather than their age, as was the case before, in a bid to provide customers with the most accurate vehicle reliability data possible. Do you listen Hudson that you are saying that age is more important than mileage? DEKRA is more experienced than you and says to us that mileage is more important…
The DEKRA 2008 top cars for reliability are (I am showing the results from the high mileage of every category, as the lower mileage is not significant):
MINI/SMALL CARS: Honda Jazz
COMPACT CARS: Volkswagen Golf V
MEDIUM CARS: Audi A4 UPPER MEDIUM/EXECUTIVE CARS: BMW 5-Series
SPORTS CARS/COUPES: Mazda MX-5 (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
SUV: BMW X5
MPV: Volkswagen Touran (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
Did you notice something? Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in those tables, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average. So Hyundai when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term, sucks!
Did YOU notice something? Mercedes-Benz, Opel, Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Peugeot, Porsche, etc...are ALL MISSING! By your concept, they all "suck" "when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term."
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:08 AM   #82
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Let’s see the other of Hyundai Group, the famous KIA. For those who don’t know, KIA and Hyundai is the same Group, with same shareholders. It’s one Group. Of course, as anybody with common sense can understand, in a Group that we have two companies (like Hyundai and KIA) in the same sector (car industry), either you have quality or not, as a matter of principle. For example, Toyota and Lexus: it’s the same Group and always Toyota and Lexus rank high, usually at top of quality surveys.

If Hudson or any one else of the “Hyundai Defenders” question this (that the 2 companies of the same group would have the same principles about quality), then I will ask him to tell us directly if Hyundai Group fool the consumers that sells them KIA autos, selling them cars unreliable, with no quality etc comparable to Hyundai cars.

So let’s see what is Hyundai as a Group doing in US market: Hyundai ranked 13th with 200 problems per 100 vehicles. KIA ranked 35 (yeap… thirty five) from 37 brands, that means 3rd from the bottom (…sucks so, so much!!!) with 278 problems in 100 cars. Let’s examine the average of Hyundai/KIA to see the overall performance of the Group. Well…. 200+278=478/2=239. Well with 239 problems average as a Group, Hyundai ranks in 26th position, sharing this position with Chevy… Well done Hyundai Group!!! Go! Go! Go!

And why we must talk only for US market? Why Hudson don’t you speak about the English, German and French markets? You know… the world is not only the US. The world is also England, Germany, France, Greece, etc.
As I show in comment 79, in England Hyundai (just Hyundai, without KIA) ranked in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. What is the average? 17+19+21=57, 57/3=19. So Hyundai in those markets that altogether are bigger than US, so more important, and just Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 19th! Woooowwww!!! Great position for Hyundai! I don’t even want to think, what the position would be with KIA, as a Group…


The differences of the positionings of any brand, just not only Hyundai, in the surveys of different years or in the surveys and studies of different countries, just showing that the production quality of any cars' manufacturer is not stable over the years. Some times the manufacturers increase the quality and some times they reduce the quality. But in general terms, Hyundai Group in the long term, has proven to have very low quality which leads to very low owners satisfaction, which leads to very low resale value. Yes... Hyundai is worse than most of the other brands. Hyundai just has cheap cars, that's why is in the 5th position in annual global sales as a Group (with KIA), but its cars are without quality and durability.


Dear Hudson you didn’t comment the last (bottom) positionings that Hyundai Group had in Germany’s ADAC survey with Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson (each of those cars, are last… bottom… in its category). Those Koreans suck a lot!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
By your concept {means me, sofpan}, they all ‘suck’ when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term.

Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Let’s see the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada. Hyundai is in 30th posistion among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!

Enjoy...

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:49 AM   #83
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

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Old 09-10-2008, 10:34 AM   #84
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Let’s see the other of Hyundai Group, the famous KIA. For those who don’t know, KIA and Hyundai is the same Group, with same shareholders. It’s one Group. Of course, as anybody with common sense can understand, in a Group that we have two companies (like Hyundai and KIA) in the same sector (car industry), either you have quality or not, as a matter of principle. For example, Toyota and Lexus: it’s the same Group and always Toyota and Lexus rank high, usually at top of quality surveys.

If Hudson or any one else of the “Hyundai Defenders” question this (that the 2 companies of the same group would have the same principles about quality), then I will ask him to tell us directly if Hyundai Group fool the consumers that sells them KIA autos, selling them cars unreliable, with no quality etc comparable to Hyundai cars.

So let’s see what is Hyundai as a Group doing in US market: Hyundai ranked 13th with 200 problems per 100 vehicles. KIA ranked 35 (yeap… thirty five) from 37 brands, that means 3rd from the bottom (…sucks so, so much!!!) with 278 problems in 100 cars. Let’s examine the average of Hyundai/KIA to see the overall performance of the Group. Well…. 200+278=478/2=239. Well with 239 problems average as a Group, Hyundai ranks in 26th position, sharing this position with Chevy… Well done Hyundai Group!!! Go! Go! Go!

And why we must talk only for US market? Why Hudson don’t you speak about the English, German and French markets? You know… the world is not only the US. The world is also England, Germany, France, Greece, etc.
As I show in comment 79, in England Hyundai (just Hyundai, without KIA) ranked in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. What is the average? 17+19+21=57, 57/3=19. So Hyundai in those markets that altogether are bigger than US, so more important, and just Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 19th! Woooowwww!!! Great position for Hyundai! I don’t even want to think, what the position would be with KIA, as a Group…


The differences of the positionings of any brand, just not only Hyundai, in the surveys of different years or in the surveys and studies of different countries, just showing that the production quality of any cars' manufacturer is not stable over the years. Some times the manufacturers increase the quality and some times they reduce the quality. But in general terms, Hyundai Group in the long term, has proven to have very low quality which leads to very low owners satisfaction, which leads to very low resale value. Yes... Hyundai is worse than most of the other brands. Hyundai just has cheap cars, that's why is in the 5th position in annual global sales as a Group (with KIA), but its cars are without quality and durability.


Dear Hudson you didn’t comment the last (bottom) positionings that Hyundai Group had in Germany’s ADAC survey with Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson (each of those cars, are last… bottom… in its category). Those Koreans suck a lot!!!


Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Let’s see the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada. Hyundai is in 30th posistion among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!

Enjoy...

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php
Hyundai has a lot stricter quality controls than Kia does, that is why they are ranked so much higher. Only one vehicle, out of all Hyundai's and Kia's share the same assembly line. Kia makes the Hyundai Entourage minivan. That is the only one. Even some of the older Hyundai and Kias were almost identical, but they were still built at different plants because of Hyundai's stricter quality controls.
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:23 AM   #85
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Let’s see the other of Hyundai Group, the famous KIA. For those who don’t know, KIA and Hyundai is the same Group, with same shareholders. It’s one Group. Of course, as anybody with common sense can understand, in a Group that we have two companies (like Hyundai and KIA) in the same sector (car industry), either you have quality or not, as a matter of principle. For example, Toyota and Lexus: it’s the same Group and always Toyota and Lexus rank high, usually at top of quality surveys.
Again I find myself in the position to educate you about how the automotive industry works. Kia and Hyundai are both owned by the Hyundai Group, but they are not the same company. Most Kia products are produced in Kia plants while most Hyundai products are produced in Hyundai plants. Unlike Toyota and Lexus, which are designed and engineered by the same group, Hyundai and Kia have their own engineers, designers, and assembly personnel. Using Kia for comparison purposes doesn't work here. So you could have saved yourself a few hundred words of argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Your comparisons of the long-term quality of "11 to 15" year old cars doesn't work at all. The basis of the entire thread, at least from the people making sense on it, has been that Hyundai's quality and durability has IMPROVED. Vehicles that are a decade and a half old cannot be used against the quality of the CURRENT lines of Hyundai vehicles. Strike two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
...Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!
By the way, as an owner of a 16-year old Suzuki, there are good and bad of every brand. There are bad Toyotas and there are Opels that can last 30 years. You bought an entry-level car that started to show its age after 8 years...that's a pretty good ENTRY-LEVEL car.
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:56 AM   #86
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
Hyundai has a lot stricter quality controls than Kia does, that is why they are ranked so much higher…….Even some of the older Hyundai and Kias were almost identical, but they were still built at different plants because of Hyundai's stricter quality controls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
... Unlike Toyota and Lexus, which are designed and engineered by the same group, Hyundai and Kia have their own engineers, designers, and assembly personnel. Using Kia for comparison purposes doesn't work here</SPAN>.
Thanx Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson for admitting that in Hyundai Group, they sell two different cars/brands from the quality view. They sell us the junky Hyundais and they also sell us the junkiest KIAs.

Be careful KIA owners or potential buyers!

Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson, two “Hyundai Defenders” just in their last comments, admitted that KIAs are super junk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
Your comparisons of the long-term quality of "11 to 15" year old cars doesn't work at all.

Why? Because you are saying so? No, dear Hudson. A Canadian organization made a study and tells that. And of course, you have experience with cars because you have a relative job, but your experience can not be bigger than a study of an organization. So this study, that happens not to be mine (I didn’t do it, this Canadian organization did it), show us clearly that you can not find Hyundais in the roads in the long term. Why if not Hyundais have no quality and durability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
The basis of the entire thread, at least from the people making sense on it, has been that Hyundai's quality and durability has IMPROVED.

Hudson, you mustn’t have selective intelligence. In your comments, you mention only the rankings of Hyundai in US. The world is not only US.
In US market as the data of JD Power show, Hyundai ranked 13th, just a little above average. That’s not good. That’s is or lack or showing to us that Hyundai selectively, builds some relatively good cars from time to time, just to confuse the consumers.

Hyundais dear Hudson improved only in your mind. Because JD Power in its Survey in England ranked Hyundai in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. The three countries have a much bigger auto market than US, so this ‘european’ market is more important in sales size than US. The average position in this ‘european’ market for Hyundai is only 19th. Congratulations! …and we are speaking for 2008 surveys, so we means the new Hyundais that Hudson tell us that “have quality”(!)…nice joke Hudson… Do you know the other with Toto?

I –that I’m not having selective intelligence like you— will tell you in what position of JD Power surveys we can find Hyundai, counting US. Well in US Hyundai is in 13th position, the rest (England, Germany and France) are kwon, so the average position is: (13+17+19+21)/4=17.5 à 18. So in average, Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 18th, in the following markets: US, England, Germany and France. Congratulations again Hyundai for the quality you offer in your new cars!!!

Dear Hudson, the surveys of the Germanny’s ADAC and DEKRA are also showing Hyundai’s low quality and durability and for me, the most correct survey is this from DEKRA, that studies the problems considering the mileages. In the long mileage, Hyundai in all categories ranked below average… and we are speaking for new cars, not old.
So dear Hudson, you may say that Hyundai improved, but it seems to me that JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA (comment 79), Edmunds (comment 77) and R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83), all of them, belie you.

Dear Hudson (and every other “Hyundai Defender”), you have not comment yet, the comparison of Accent and X brand that made in Comment 61 and you haven’t answer me what is quality and reliability in a car.

Dear Hudson, don’t garble my words. My Accent served me relatively well for about 6 years having done totally no more than 35000 miles in those years. Not “started to show its age after 8 years” as you mentioned… Dear Hudson there is big difference between 6+ and 8+. So, from my experience Accent is junk.

and from datas from JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, Edmunds and R.L. Polk Canada, I conclude that generally Hyundai in the past and in the present, is junk !

…and when you have such a history… we can understand Hyundai’s future…. Junk!



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Old 09-11-2008, 06:55 PM   #87
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

This thing is ridiculous! 1 Hyundai owner not happy about his Hyundai so he devotes all his energy in pissing off other Hyundai owners? How is posting on the sub-site of a sub-site of a small message board going to get Hyundai’s attention? I’m sure Hyundai is trembling in their boots now that an owner of a 10 year old Accent is venting his frustrations on the internet! haha.
Dude, just get another car.
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Old 09-12-2008, 03:12 AM   #88
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

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Originally Posted by Skywalker1977
This thing is ridiculous!

Etymology/definition of the word “ridiculous” from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary: latin ridiculosus (from ridiculum jest, from neuter of ridiculus) or ridiculus, literally, laughable, from ridēre to laugh.
Let’s see… I worked about a year and a half, spending nothing, to accumulate the money to buy this Accent. In those 10 years I have it, Accent cost me a little fortune because of its high maintenance and service expenditures at the authorized points. I always drove “gently”, like a grandma (not fast, etc), I wasn’t pushing hard its machine, I’ve done –gradually- only about 70.7 k miles in a decade, this is about 6700 miles per years (very little)….and my Accent with those excellent I would say conditions and circumstances, appears –among others- this last malfunction. Sorry mate but this is unacceptable… I didn’t buy a vehicle–toy. I bought a car or I thought so… Man…I’m pissed off!
My claim for Hyundai Motors to fix for free, this last unacceptable malfunction is FAIR. None fair claim can be ridiculous. But surely, it is ridiculous the bad quality, reliability and durability of Hyundai, period!


If I am quaint and talking nonsense, Hyundai and everybody else has nothing to afraid... but if I am correct, then Hyundai must be afraid...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywalker1977
Dude, just get another car

I don’t know what are your salaries in US, what is the cost of life there and how much money you can put aside in a monthly basis, but here in Greece, the cost of life is quite high for someone who is not a thief/fraud (frauds have lots of money here and drive expensive SUVs). So, I don’t have the money to buy a new car. And even if I had the money, it wouldn’t be the priority. So, you or whoever say this thing, buy me a new car. I will be very thankful to you or anyone else for this.

Of course, even if someone bought me a car, if this one was not Hyundai Motors, I would keep on showing to consumers the worthless of this Korean company, just because I respect the work and money of everybody, because money can not be found in the streets and everybody –well almost everybody because there are frauds- works hard to gain them. So with respect to my fellow consumers, I will keep on showing the low quality, reliability and durability of Hyundai/KIA Group.
I’ll keep on “rock” them!!!

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Old 09-12-2008, 05:59 AM   #89
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywalker1977
This thing is ridiculous! 1 Hyundai owner not happy about his Hyundai so he devotes all his energy in pissing off other Hyundai owners? How is posting on the sub-site of a sub-site of a small message board going to get Hyundai’s attention? I’m sure Hyundai is trembling in their boots now that an owner of a 10 year old Accent is venting his frustrations on the internet! haha.
Dude, just get another car.
ROFL

Right on! Like a dog with a bone.

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Old 09-12-2008, 12:55 PM   #90
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

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Originally Posted by sofpan
Thanx Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson for admitting that in Hyundai Group, they sell two different cars/brands from the quality view.
My comment was not "admitting" anything, it was simply stating the facts. Hyundai Group owns Hyundai Motors and Kia Motors, two different companies. You read your opinion into my simple statement of fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson, two “Hyundai Defenders” just in their last comments, admitted that KIAs are super junk.
Again...no, didn't happen. Simply stated that they are both parts of the same larger corporation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]In US market as the data of JD Power show, Hyundai ranked 13th, just a little above average. That’s not good...
It's better than MORE THAN HALF of the companies surveyed. That's not BAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]Hyundais dear Hudson improved only in your mind...
And in EVERY survey you can possibly find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Because JD Power in its Survey in England ranked Hyundai in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. The three countries have a much bigger auto market than US, so this ‘european’ market is more important in sales size than US...
Surprise, but you're WRONG again. The American market is only slightly smaller than the ENTIRE European market. Meaning that you'd have to add in Spain and Italy and a few other countries before you were talking about a "much bigger auto market than US." Last year, Germany (3.5 million), UK (2.8 million), and France (2.6 million) combined for 8,865,934 new vehicles sold...while the US had a bad year and only sold about 15 million.

Additionally, how many brands were surveyed in the UK, German, and French surveys? Ranking 17th or 19th or 21st means NOTHING if you don't know the size of the survey. Was this out of 22 or 122? There's a big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
...so the average position is: (13+17+19+21)/4=17.5...
Selective intelligence? You can't simply average positions and state that this is a meaningful statitistic. If 13th out of 35 (like in the US) is averged in with 17th out of, say, 100...how meaningful would that be? Or 17th out of 17? Useless "statistic" on your part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
So dear Hudson, you may say that Hyundai improved, but it seems to me that JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA (comment 79), Edmunds (comment 77) and R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83), all of them, belie you.
Actually, they all back me up. In order to MAINTAIN a position within a given survey, any company would have to IMPROVE their quality since everyone else is improving their quality. You can even improve your quality and lose positions when others improve their quality more. And since Hyundai was regularly ranked at among the BOTTOM of every survey just 15-20 years ago, being ranked 17th or 13th or 21st is an improvement. Think of the dozen or so companies that Hyundai PASSED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Dear Hudson, don’t garble my words.

I can quote you directly. You've made almost no sense since your first post. You keep confusing mileage and age. Cars deteriorate over time AND mileage. These two are not mutually exclusive. A 1-year old 200,000km car will have problems and a 10-year old 60,000km car will have problems. It's just a fact. And once ANY car passes 5 or 10 years, the problems will just increase...no matter how many miles you put on it. No matter how many times you argue it, this is how the world works. If you can build a better car, do it. I'm sure you cannot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
from my experience Accent is junk.
From your experience, your car was very good and reliable for the average life of a car...which is about 7 years. You have wild expectations that an elderly car should be as good as it was when it was new. Your car is ANCIENT...get used to it. If it were an Opel or a Rolls-Royce or a Porsche or a Toyota, only the most delusional and uneducated would think that burning some oil at 11 years of age would be a sign of a poor quality car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
and from datas from JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, Edmunds and R.L. Polk Canada, I conclude that generally Hyundai in the past and in the present, is junk !
Hint for you, don't go into statistical analysis, because you obviously don't understand it.
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