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View Poll Results: What do you think of Hyundai?
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:01 PM   #61
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

You are delusional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]Thanks Hudson that you admitted that my Hyundai is not above average…
You read WHAT into what I said? I said nothing of the sort. Sorry, you wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Dear Hudson, the saying is correct but it’s not apply to the example that I gave. Micra is little smaller in dimensions (length) than Accent, but the Engine Is the Same (1300 cc or 1.3L).

I've worked in the automotive industry for a number of years. The Micra and the Accent are NOT in the same class. My MG has a 1.3L engine as well and that doesn't mean it's in the same class as a Micra OR an Accent. Vehicle size, price point, and body style are more important than engine size. Your car is in a different class than the Micra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[b]Do you believe dear Hudson that in the next year that Micra will reach –and probably pass- the miles that I have done gradually in 11 years,


Moot point. How many problems did you have fixed under warranty?

Also, AGE has as much or MORE to do with a vehicle than mileage. I've got a 1.3L car that has had relatively few problems in the 160k miles I've owned it and another that has been more trouble just keeping on the road...and it has fewer than 90k miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Read again my first comment of the Thread to remind yourself the total problems that I had in my Accent –not only the last important: oils burn inside the engine- and answer me.
You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Accent was the development – evolution of a previous 1.3L model, the Hyundai Excel (I think that in US named Pony).
Wrong and wrong. The Excel was not called the Pony in the US, it was the Excel. The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
It served me well the first 6-7 years. The most of the important problems that I describe to you in my first comment in this Thread, appeared from the 7th year.
Wow! You admitted that your car was GOOD! You've proven my point. Thank you. Good bye.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:01 AM   #62
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Dear Hudson,

You didn’t comment the Cost per month in the example I gave, with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Why? Probably because you can not defend Hyundai.

You haven’t answer yet–and all the “Hyundai Defenders”- how you define the quality and durability in a car, despite my continuous requests. Only you Hudson, answered a little and partially the question, answering only some things about the quality (my comment: you refer to Initial Quality and that is not so important). You said nothing about durability. Why? Because all of you know, that if you answer what is quality and durability in a car, then it will shown that Hyundai has no Quality and has no Durability. You avoid to answer because you know the consequence of your answers.

As for the example – comparison of Accent and Micra, we have different perceptions. You say that Accent and Micra are not comparable, I say they are comparable. In this case, I compare the two cars from the mechanical and the well or not functional view of problems that the cars appear. For this view, the only important thing is the engine to be the same. I compare the mechanical problems. If the engines in the two cars are the same (1300 cc or 1.3L) I believe that are absolutely comparable. What if Accent has bigger length? In what way the length of a car affects the mechanical problems?

I say: Mechanical Problems = have to do with machine = have to do with engine and other mechanical systems and parts. So two cars with the same engine are comparable.

You say: Mechanical Problems = have to do with length …………… Please, Don’t compare Apples and Oranges.

If some organizations or others, put the Accent and Micra in different classes, that is from the side of passengers’ and luggages’ space. That has nothing to do with the mechanical or/and electrical problems.

I also said that my Accent served me well for about 6 years. You said that that means that my Accent is good. Again different perceptions: I don’t thing that any car that in 6 years have done totally –and gradually- only 41.4 k miles (6,900 miles per year in average), and the driver drives “carefully” like a grandma (as I do) and the car doesn’t appears major issues in this time frame, is necessary a good car. If it’s a good car, it will shown from years 7-10 or more. I thought that I bought a car, not a TOY. You think that this car under those conditions and circumstances is a good car. What can I say?!?!? I wish you… to own only such good cars.
I think that a car that behaved like my Accent is a worthless car.

Finally we have completely different perceptions about what causes more problems to cars. I say that the more problems caused by the use (mileage) and you say that caused by time. Of course you are expert with cars because your job has to do with them and my job is irrelevant to cars. But in a future comment, I will show the experts opinion on this. I have a relevant article that pertain and Hyundai, showing just the opposite than what you profess… but in a next comment…not everything now.

Goodmorning,
Panayiotis Sofianopoulos (sofpan)
sofpan@yahoo.com

Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Yes… I expanded it for two days, because I am a good guy and the previous expiration was in Sunday (its not a working day). Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. After 2 of September it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:25 AM   #63
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Oh! I forgot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson[COLOR=blue
]The Excel was not called the Pony in the US[/color]

OK, cheel out! I said I think it was called Pony, wasn’t sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.

So dear Hudson what are you telling now? That because Accent had some differences with the previous Excel, Hyundai Motors couldn’t use the experience that had on Excel to built a better model of about the same size (Accent)?

If I understood well, then you are saying that every new model of Hyundai, is starting from zero. And there are plenty of relatively new models “first generation” from Hyundai: Getz (I ask has nothing to do with the previous Atoz?), Matrix, i10, i30, the Genesis is coming soon.
With your logic (if I understood you well) all of these new “first generation” models have the possibility to show in the future important issues like my “first generation” Accent show. And if you think that some of these new models are “first generation” and some others are not, please inform us which are the “first generation” and which are not, so the consumers to know which of those may be worthless after some years.

Bye!
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Old 09-01-2008, 05:03 AM   #64
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Where are all the "Hyundai Defenders"?
All of them, they were Knocked Down!

Why?

They can not defend anymore Hyundai. They can not argue anymore.
They accepted Hyundai's Worthless.

I will keep on inform the consumers for Hyundai's Worthless, presenting new data from time to time.

Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. After 2 of September it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you. Hurry! The deadline expires tomorrow.
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Old 09-01-2008, 06:48 AM   #65
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

if no one has noticed they are stealing designs from bmw now look at the front end and i seen a picture of the inside of one and they used something simalar to the i-drive bmw uses i.e the knob in the center

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!"

what do you mean minor for a ten year old car my malibu is 10 years old it doesnt rattle or burn oil people say malibus suck but if they didnt have the problems they do the would be a better car and most of the problems they have are do it yourself fixable but burning oil in a 10 year old car isnt usally worth fixing anyway . burning oil is usally a sign of a cheap engine or just fried rings
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:31 PM   #66
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Where are all the "Hyundai Defenders"?
All of them, they were Knocked Down!

Why?

They can not defend anymore Hyundai. They can not argue anymore.
They accepted Hyundai's Worthless.
No, I just gave up. No matter what anybody says, your opinion will not change, so why even waste my time. If you are so unhappy, cut your losses, sell your car, and buy a 25 year old Opel. That's what I've done with the cars I've had issues with. I never once demanded that the manufacturer repair a 10 year old car that was way out of warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wade623
if no one has noticed they are stealing designs from bmw now look at the front end and i seen a picture of the inside of one and they used something simalar to the i-drive bmw uses i.e the knob in the center

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!"

what do you mean minor for a ten year old car my malibu is 10 years old it doesnt rattle or burn oil people say malibus suck but if they didnt have the problems they do the would be a better car and most of the problems they have are do it yourself fixable but burning oil in a 10 year old car isnt usally worth fixing anyway . burning oil is usally a sign of a cheap engine or just fried rings
I agree, the exterior design of the new Genesis does have cues from BMW and Lexus. However, the center knob, similar to the i-drive, is similar, but magazine reviews of it say it is way more simpler to use than the i-drive. Just because BMW came up with it first, doesn't mean that they are copying it. Is every manufacturer copying the first company that developed cruise control? No. The i-drive is a very good idea, and I give BMW credit for the idea, and Hyundai is just improving it and using it on their own.

Onto your Malibu. You should understand, unlike sofpan, that there are bad apples for every manufacturer. My sister bought a '99 Olds Alero, same car as Malibu. Years ago, and well before 100k miles, car had bad front wheel hubs, bad body control module, and a bad transmission. Not every car coming off the assembly line is perfect.
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Old 09-02-2008, 02:41 AM   #67
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Lowsonoma1999 appeared again!!!
[quote=lowsonoma1999]No, I just gave up[quote]
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up.
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
However, the center knob, similar to the i-drive, is similar, but magazine reviews of it say it is way more simpler to use than the i-drive. Just because BMW came up with it first, doesn't mean that they are copying it.
Yes dear lowsonome1999… Hyundai is coping the BMW, the Toyota, the Honda, the Mercedes, copies many manufactures. I can show you pictures if you like.
Can you dear lowsonome1999 find something that Hyundai innovated and the others auto makers copied from Hyundai? I don’t think so.
You tell that Hyundai is like a school boy that copies in the exams from the good student the correct answers, but you say that because this student change a little, the correct answers, that don’t make him a “cheat”. No, whoever is a bad student and copies the answers, cheats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
there are bad apples for every manufacturer
Only that in the case of Hyundai the bad apples are more than the other serious manufactures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
Not every car coming off the assembly line is perfect.
You know lowsonoma1999, the production line is made by the manufacturer, the factory is made by the manufacturer, the production procedure is chosen and scheduled by the manufacturer, the raw materials are chosen by the manufacturer, the production standards are chosen by the manufacturer. So if the whole procedure is a standardization procedure, how you can explain bad apples and bad apples being only an exception and not to occur for whole production series as the standardization production procedure is exactly the same for a long time period?

You also – and every other “Hyundai Defender” – haven’t answer “what is quality and durability for a car” and finally, haven’t comment the comparison of Accent and the X brand (of the same size) that I show in comment #61. Why? Because Hyundai are Worthless.

Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. Expiration is today. From tomorrow, it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you. Hurry! The deadline expires in some hours.
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Old 09-02-2008, 12:37 PM   #68
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up. [/font]
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
Here's the difference...I'm right and you can't be convinced of it. I didn't give up, I won. You just haven't realized it yet. Nor will you.
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Old 09-02-2008, 01:08 PM   #69
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

[quote=sofpan]Lowsonoma1999 appeared again!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
No, I just gave up[
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowsonoma1999
quote]
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up.
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
So if I give up trying to convince some idiodic high school kid that his Honda Civic is slow, does that mean he won? and he is right? No. Trust me, I have tried to convince them, and they dont listen. Had one that I worked with say that one average, for every $100 you spend on performance parts, you can gain 10 horsepower. Just because he spend $75 on an ebay intake for his CRX and he gained 7hp from it, does not mean that principle goes accross the board. So since I have $35,000 into the motor of my race car, why don't I have 3500 horsepower? I gave up trying to convince this idiot that his reasoning is wrong, just like your reasoning is wrong, but that doesn't mean him, nor you is right.
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Old 09-02-2008, 01:23 PM   #70
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Dear Hudson and lowsonoma1999,

#1 >>> You didn’t comment the Cost per month in the example I gave, with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Why? Probably because you can not defend Hyundai.

#2 >>> You haven’t answer yet–and all the “Hyundai Defenders”- how you define the quality and durability in a car, despite my continuous requests.

#3 >>> Only for Hudson: are you telling that because Accent had some differences with the previous Excel, Hyundai Motors couldn’t use the experience that had on Excel to built a better model of about the same size (Accent)?
If I understood well, then you are saying that every new model of Hyundai, is starting from zero. And there are plenty of relatively new models “first generation” from Hyundai: Getz (I ask has nothing to do with the previous Atoz?), Matrix, i10, i30, the Genesis is coming soon.
With your logic (if I understood you well) all of these new “first generation” models have the possibility to show in the future important issues like my “first generation” Accent show. And if you think that some of these new models are “first generation” and some others are not, please inform us which are the “first generation” and which are not, so the consumers to know which of those may be worthless after some years.

Also see this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Galloper

It seems to me that you are wrong. Because Pony had to do with Excel (you said that hadn’t to do) and Excel is related with Accent (you said, it din’t), You HUDSON ARE WRONG!!!
Don't throw so many bricks. They return to you!
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Old 09-02-2008, 03:54 PM   #71
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

I don't know about Greece, but here in the states, the Excel and Accent have about as much in common as the XG and Azera have, or the 05 and older Sonatas compared to the 06+ Sonata. They are nothing alike, other than size.
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Old 09-02-2008, 04:22 PM   #72
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Dear lowsonoma1999. Look at the Table at this link I gave you. The Table is showing the timeline of Hyundai by the type of models (city car, sub compact, etc). The Table is in wikipedia. Has nothing to do with Greece.
And from the Table we can see that Pony is related to Excel, and Excel is related to Accent. So Hyundai in 1998 that I bought my Accent, had about 20 years of experience to this kind of car (about same dimension and size of engine).
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:27 AM   #73
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Dear lowsonoma1999. Look at the Table at this link I gave you. The Table is showing the timeline of Hyundai by the type of models (city car, sub compact, etc). The Table is in wikipedia. Has nothing to do with Greece.
And from the Table we can see that Pony is related to Excel, and Excel is related to Accent. So Hyundai in 1998 that I bought my Accent, had about 20 years of experience to this kind of car (about same dimension and size of engine).
You can also say that every manufacturer has experience for an ungodly amount of time. All engines, with exception of the rotary, have pistons, crankshafts, camshafts, valves, cylinder heads, etc. It does not mean that there hasn't been a redesign. The engine in your Accent is much different than the engine in the Excel, even if it is close to the same size. They redesign engines all the time to improve all kinds of different aspecs, to reduce engine noise, improve fuel economy, increase horsepower, improve reliability. Jumping back and forth in my parts catalog from the Excel to your Accent, I have yet to find any part that has the same part #, or interchangability.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:05 AM   #74
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Lowsonoma1999 you are saying exactly the same with me, so you reinforcing my argument and my opinion.
[quote=lowsonoma1999]…The engine in your Accent is much different than the engine in the Excel, even if it is close to the same size. They redesign engines all the time to improve all kinds of different aspecs…[/quote]
Your key words: redesign, improve.
You are telling that Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had from the previous models of the same category (Pony and then Excel) to make an improved model (Accent). That’s exactly what I am saying. We agree. But we (you and me) do not agree with our friend Hudson that said that Accent had nothing to do with Excel and also, said that Excel was unrelated to Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.
Hudson indeed, used capital letters to emphasize that Accent had no relation with previous Excel.
Hudsonsays that Accent, back in ~1995 was entry-level model, but he is wrong, because Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had, to redesign and improve in some points, its car. So Accent back in ~1995 was a new model but not an entry-level model.
Hyundai had at least 10 years of experience on this category and cars size. And redesign the Excel. Why Hyundai redesigned the Excel and not made a new version of Excel? Probably because Excel was an unsuccessful model. When a Auto Maker has a successful model (from the sales view), usually has no need to stop selling it. So Hyundai redesigned Excel, improved it in some points (better “technical” performances), named the model Accent, made the consumers think that was a new and better model, but it didn’t improve it in quality and durability. Excel was a model that was cheap but it had a bad reputation in the markets (think the very low resale value). Hyundai made again a cheap but not good car from the side of quality, reliability and durability (Accent).
Hyundai could make a better quality and durable car but it didn’t. Hyundai didn’t made such a good car because if have made, the cost would have been larger and that would have consequences to the sales.
Hyundai/KIA Group is in the #5 of global annual sales only because it has cheap cars. Don’t look for quality, reliability and durability at Hyundais in the long term.

Finally dear lowsonoma1999 you haven’t answer me:
1) What is your definition of quality and durability in a car.
2a) Can you show me something that Hyundai Motor innovated and was copied from other auto makers? Because I can show you lots of examples that Hyundai copies the designs, the parts, the mechanisms etc from others.
2b) If you can’t show me something that Hyundai innovated and copied by other auto makers, how you explain this phenomenon? An Auto Group (Hyundai/KIA) to be in the 5th position of annual global sales and has no important innovation of itself to worth to be copied from other auto companies? Be careful, I mean clearly a Hyundai’s innovation, not something that probably made by another company and “sell” it to Hyundai.


My answer to question #2, is that Hyundai never innovated something important, something revolutionary, even in design, and that’s because…………



H Y U N D A I ..is


W O R T H L E S S


Please “Hyundai Defenders”, what is your opinion?
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:41 AM   #75
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

You know nothing about cars or the automotive industry, and you just love to prove it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
But we (you and me) do not agree with our friend Hudson that said that Accent had nothing to do with Excel and also, said that Excel was unrelated to Pony.
The original Pony had nothing to do with the original Excel since one (the Pony) was rear-wheel drive and the other (the Excel) was front-wheel drive. Completely different cars covering a similar market segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Hudsonsays that Accent, back in ~1995 was entry-level model, but he is wrong, because Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had, to redesign and improve in some points, its car. So Accent back in ~1995 was a new model but not an entry-level model.
Hyundai's Excel and Accent were entry-level cars in the subcompact market. In the US, they were even the entry-level into the Hyundai brand. Entry-level means basic...low-cost...easy enough to buy for a young person. "Entry-level."
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Why Hyundai redesigned the Excel and not made a new version of Excel? Probably because Excel was an unsuccessful model. When a Auto Maker has a successful model (from the sales view), usually has no need to stop selling it. So Hyundai redesigned Excel, improved it in some points (better “technical” performances), named the model Accent, made the consumers think that was a new and better model, but it didn’t improve it in quality and durability. Excel was a model that was cheap but it had a bad reputation in the markets (think the very low resale value). Hyundai made again a cheap but not good car from the side of quality, reliability and durability (Accent).
Will you PLEASE read? I've stated this OVER and OVER. Resale value for a brand NEVER shoots up overnight. It takes YEARS...many years, in some cases, for the reputation to catch up with the fact of improved quality.

Additionally, Accent name was used to replace the "tarnished" image of the Excel name, which was, at first, wildly successful in many markets. And the Accent was an improved vehicle compared to the Excel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]Hyundai could make a better quality and durable car but it didn’t.
Hyundai could have made a Mercedes-Benz or a Lexus, also. But, instead, they made a car that YOU could afford to buy. That is the trade-off. Entry-level cars, such as the one you purchased, aren't supposed to last forever. That's why they cost so little.

Your opinion is your opinion. I'm stating this information from my educated knowledge-base. Your opinion comes from the fact that your ENTRY-LEVEL car started going downhill after 6-7 years. You got your money's worth...be happy!
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