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View Poll Results: What do you think of Hyundai?
They are good and quality cars 3 50.00%
They are junk 3 50.00%
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:30 AM   #31
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
The (any) TV program is controled and checked by a big population (viewers). How, any organization like JDPower (profit on non) is checked and controled?
TV programs and magazines are controlled by their advertisers because they're the ones paying the bills, not the viewers. The viewers only need to be entertained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
And I repeat: I don’t trust absolutely none, except my experience and common sense.
In that case, your common sense should tell you that ONE vehicle experience is a poor sample of the whole of a vehicle run. It is IMPOSSIBLE to claim that "Hyundai cars are worthless" by driving ONE example. Common sense tells ME that.

If you had common sense, you would be open to other ideas that could possibly be more accurate than your narrow experience. Perhaps that's why they didn't like you on Yahoo.

I've driven hundreds of different cars and trucks. Never have I said that anyone one of them could speak for the manufacturer, brand, or even model. I always leave open the possibility that the ONE vehicle I drove had a problem but there's always the chance that the rest of the model (or brand or manufacturer) has the same problem...but that chance is slim.
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:54 AM   #32
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

So by your logic... The Movie Fast and Furious is more 'trustworthy' than a company who's sole purpose is to unbiasedly rate automobiles because more people have heard of it?

But on the other hand... I agree that older Hyundai cars were complete crap, however i dont agree that they are all crap now. Hyundai has made some great improvements over the years, much like Honda...
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:39 AM   #33
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
TV programs and magazines are controlled by their advertisers because they're the ones paying the bills, not the viewers.

Dear Hudson if a TV program or magazine has not enough viewers, it depends on the advertisements it recieves and the qualifications of its advertisements director and his public relationships. If a TV program has big audience, a lot of people watch it, then the TV program or magazine HAS POWER and DOESN’T NEED NO COMPANY. The (any) company needs this strong TV program or magazine. Top Gear is the most known and famous worldwide cars TV program and obviously if –by your “common sense” that is the sense of a “Hyundai Defender”- needed advertisements once, then the not so famous worldwide JDPower, would needed revenues (may be with “hidden” payments from car industries) ten times more. Top Gear has much bigger negotiable power (from its viewers) than JDPower. If some organization has more power, it can be more indepedent.

So I will ask again the question that you avoid answer me:
What are the revenues of an organization like JDPower? Does it sells magazines? No, so it hasn’t revenues of this kind, that Top Gear has. Does it accept advertisements? No, so it hasn’t this kind of revenues that Top Gear has. Top Gear has revenues from selling magazines and accepting advertisements. Top Gear business are “open” and “clear”. Top Gear has a strong negotiable power and the auto industries need Top Gear, not the opposite.
JDPower that doesn’t sell magazines and doesn’t accept advertisements, how survives? With charity from anyone that visits its internet site? Tell me please Hudson: how JDPower lives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
In that case, your common sense should tell you that ONE vehicle experience is a poor sample of the whole of a vehicle run. It is IMPOSSIBLE to claim that "Hyundai cars are worthless" by driving ONE example. Common sense tells ME that.

Tell me dear Hudson, my problematic Accent did it produced in another factory and not at a Hyundai factory? Did it produced in another production line like for exable in the production line of FIAT? Did it produced by the standards of Hyundai Motors or by the standards of some other brand? Did it produced with Hyundai’s raw materials or with the raw materials of some other auto maker?
No dear Hudson, my Accent produced at a Hyundai production line of a Hyundai Factory, with the Hyundai’s standards, with the Hyundai’s chosen raw materials. And what is the result? A diseffective car. And like my Accent produced at a Hyundai production line of a Hyundai Factory, with the Hyundai’s standards, with the Hyundai’s chosen raw materials, like this and the previous (than mine) vehicle that produced would have been problematic, and the next to mine, would have been problematic, and the second next to mine would have been problematic, and so on. And that’s because all Accents that produced in this particular production line that my car produced, produced with the same procedure and the same raw materials that Hyundai Motors chose. So it’s not only a car that is diseffective (mine). It’s at least, the whole series that produced in this particular producrion line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
If you had common sense, you would be open to other ideas that could possibly be more accurate than your narrow experience. Perhaps that's why they didn't like you on Yahoo.

Your “common sense” is a “Hyundai sense”. Furthermore, in democracy (you know the word and its meaning?) when someone has different opinion from some other, allow him to say his different opinion and allow him to be heard. In democracy there is freedom of expression. What the “Hyundai Defenders” did? They joint themselfs and reported “abuse” to my answers. They don’t like democracy. They act like fascists. Me that I like democracy, I never prevented someone to express his opinion. I never reported “abuse” the answer of some “Hyundai Defender”. That’s a big difference between me and some of the “Hyundai Defenders”: I am democratic, they are fascists. I allow them to tell their opinion, no matter if I don’t agree, but they have problem with me when I’m expressing my opinion.
Some of the “Hyundai Defenders” are proven to be chicken: they afraid of me, when I’m expressing my opinion.

Try to delete or pause me and you will find me to another two sites for the one that pause me by your fascist beheviour.

People that read us, have the brain to understand if I am telling the truth, or you are telling the truth. They don’t need you, the “Hyundai Defenders” to protect them.

And I am telling that HYUNDAI is WORTHLESS!!!

Please readerσ of this Topic-forum, read it whole from the beggining. It worth.

I taking back my offer about Olympic cease-fire. I only retain the cease-fire with lowsonome1999 that didn’t provoke me.

Sofianopoulos Panayiotis (sofpan) sofpan@yahoo.com
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:53 AM   #34
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenblurr93
So by your logic... The Movie Fast and Furious is more 'trustworthy' than a company who's sole purpose is to unbiasedly rate automobiles because more people have heard of it?
Who spoke about movies? Did I?
I spoke for the most known and famous -by far- specialised Cars TV informative program. There is a huge difference. And the "heaviness" of Top Gear is much more bigger than JDPower's. Does anyone question this???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenblurr93
But on the other hand... I agree that older Hyundai cars were complete crap, however i dont agree that they are all crap now...
Because I am open minded I can agree that from time to time, Hyundai produces some relatively good cars, only for a small time period, to confuse consumers about Hyundai's quality. Is that enough for you? For me, its not enough.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:09 AM   #35
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Take your ego down a couple notches... no one is 'afraid' of you. i think its more they got sick and tired of reading your comical 'facts'. And as Hudson and others have pointed out, they dont hold much water. I also would like to know why you think we are 'provoking' you... we are simply stating opinions here and hence why this thread hasnt been locked or anyone banned.. yet... but if this turns into something personal, i assure you, myself and most likely Hudson will be more than happy to send the 'provoker' to a trip to "Banlandia"
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:45 AM   #36
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

For the wise cjgt2 that question the 1st position of Top Gear worlwide:

"Probably the most known globally television programme about cars, is “Top Gear" "- Sofpan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgt2
It is? Show me a link on how it's shown globally. It's hard trying to find the magnazine in the US, let alone the TV show.


I will show you:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_(current_format)

There it writes:

"Top Gear is a BAFTA, multi-NTA and International Emmy Award-winning BBC television series about motor vehicles, mainly cars. It began in 1977 as a conventional motoring magazine show.... The programme is estimated to have 385 million viewers worldwide.[1] In 2007 it was one of the most pirated television shows in the world.[2]".

Do you understand cjgt2 that questioning the popularity of Top Gear (...hardly finds it in US, etc)?

Top Gear –adventitiously?- has 385 million viewers worldwide and its much pirated. 385 million viewers is a huge number. Can you show me another TV Program about cars that has more viewers? That has almost a number of viewers near to Top Gear’s?

You want more?

See more:
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071002234629AA1vwze

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AkDUVa9gYpAV5GLq3i146Y0jzKIX;_ylv=3?qid =20080809013423AA1h51V

Do you understand cjgt2? Almost everybody –even girls- knows Top Gear that you question its popularity. So cjgt2 you told me that you didn't know enough that Top Gear is the first TV program about cars globally. If you knew that Top Gear is first globally you wouldn't ask me to prove it, OK?
So are you so ignorant about cars themes, or are you a liar? Or we have another option? Tell me please...
If you are so ignorant about cars’ themes, then what are you doing to this cars forum?
If you are liar, you have no position here, but... don’t worry, I am generous. I don’t have problem to express your opinion. I can easily prove you’re wrong. You see... I am democratic, not fascist.
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:54 AM   #37
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

The popularity of the show (Top Gear) has led to the creation of two international versions, with local production teams and presenters, for Australia and the United States.

Noother TV program about cars has two local production teams.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:06 PM   #38
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]Dear Hudson if a TV program or magazine has not enough viewers, it depends on the advertisements it recieves and the qualifications of its advertisements director and his public relationships. If a TV program has big audience, a lot of people watch it, then the TV program or magazine HAS POWER and DOESN’T NEED NO COMPANY.
Not only do you not know how the automotive industry works, but you don't know how TV and magazine industries work.

Viewers of TV shows and readers of magazines do NOT pay for the existence of them. Advertisers do. Sure, if nobody watches or reads them, then no advertisers will show up. But if the shows or magazines don't treat the advertisers well, they won't show up then either. TV shows and magazines NEED advertisers no matter how many viewers or readers there are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Top Gear is the most known and famous worldwide cars TV program...needed advertisements once...
...and still does today. That's how they pay the bills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
Top Gear has revenues from selling magazines and accepting advertisements.
The revenues gained from selling magazines barely pay for the distribution of the magazine...the magazine exists almost solely because of the advertising. And the magazine would shut down almost over night if the advertisers walked away...no matter how many people read it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[b][font=Arial]JDPower that doesn’t sell magazines and doesn’t accept advertisements, how survives?
You really don't read well. JD Power is a LARGE company. They sell consulting services and part of that knowledge that everyone pays for comes from its surveys that rank businesses in various industries, including the automotive industry. JD Power is far more unbias than Top Gear, which is highly influenced by advertisers and the FEW writers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial]Tell me dear Hudson, my problematic Accent did it produced in another factory and not at a Hyundai factory?
A Hyundai plant most-likely built your Accent. But because YOUR ONE CAR was bad, then anything made by Hyundai would therefore be bad? C'mon...even YOU can see how that's a stretch of the imagination. And especially when you look at your ENTRY-LEVEL model, it can't possibly reflect on the models positioned above it...making your claim that "Hyundai cars are worthless" a moot point.

Nobody here is afraid of you. You're narrow-minded and fail to see outside of your little rose-colored glasses. There's a big world out there...wise up!
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:09 PM   #39
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Greetings Hudson. Generally, I agree with you. But not in the point that you tell me that I do not know how the automotive industry works, and how the TV and magazine industries work.

We say the same thing with the only difference that you present the business of cars TV program very dependable to its advertisers. In general terms that’s true. But in the case of Top Gear with the power that has, its not true. The auto enterprises hunting a TV program like Top Gear and not the opposite.

You are clever because I saw that you didn’t question the top worldwide popularity of Top Gear like someone else did.

But you still didn’t answer me how an organization like JDPower realy lives? Ofcourse you said that sells consulting services to industries (what kind of consulting services?) and sells its surveys that rank businesses. Well, the ranks are almost open to viewers, so what it sells? I don’t understand. Tell me please.

And of course, you didn’t explain how are you sure that an organization like JDPower doesn’t receive money from a company to show a better rank, positioning, etc, to improve its customer’s image (with an extra hidden fee for the organization like JDPower). How are you sure Hudson? What is the controling mechanism for the rankings and positioning procedure of an organization like JDPower, that influence a lot the peoples opinion?

I accept that JDPower is one of the big companies of this kind of businesses, but its not more known and famous globally than Top Gear. Furthermore, I believe the “heaviness” of Top Gear is bigger than JDPower. If my Account was not suspended in “Yahoo! Answers” (by the “Hyundai Defenders” that afraid of me), I would have post a relative question likeWhat do you know and trust more about cars, the Top Gear TV programe or JDPower?and the people out there, would have given their answer to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
A Hyundai plant most-likely built your Accent. But because YOUR ONE CAR was bad, then anything made by Hyundai would therefore be bad?

Now you are selectively answered. My whole sentence was:
...my Accent produced at a Hyundai production line of a Hyundai Factory, with the Hyundai’s standards, with the Hyundai’s chosen raw materials. And what is the result? A diseffective car. And as my Accent produced at a Hyundai production line of a Hyundai Factory, with the Hyundai’s standards, with the Hyundai’s chosen raw materials, like this and the previous (than mine) vehicle that produced would have been problematic, and the next to mine, would have been problematic, and the second next to mine would have been problematic, and so on. And that’s because all Accents that produced in this particular production line that my car produced, produced with the same procedure and the same raw materials that Hyundai Motors chose. So it’s not only a car that is diseffective (mine). It’s at least, the whole series that produced in this particular production line.


I put the last sentence in purpose in large font size, so you can see my sentence and don't say that only my car was problematic. Many cars were problematic.

And the facts that I have present here (like cases with problematic new Hyundais and the "award" of Top Gear), show to us that Hyundai still makes cars with no enough good quality.
So the conclusion: Hyundai builds worthless cars.

Goodnight Hudson, its late here in Greece. See you tomorrow.

Sofianopoulos Panayiotis (sofpan) sofpan@yahoo.com
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Old 08-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #40
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

LOL, calm down, you think I reported you on Yahoo Answers? Sorry, but I didn't. The administration may have felt you didn't follow the guidelines. It's a question and answer forum not a soapbox (Try the Politics section for that ). Why would you think that anyway? Can't you tell I'm having too much fun busting your bubble?

You keep saying awards don't mean anything but then you cite an "award"?! BAFTA, multi-NTA and International Emmy Award. Huh! Do you believe in them or not? Are YOU the liar!

You keep clinging on to Top Gear, but the show was cancelled http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?Topgear or is it? http://jalopnik.com/391121/up+front-page-up-top-gear-usa-not-cancelled YOU and 159 other people are the only one's who is making them the authority on cars. Seriously, despite Top Gear's limbo status in the US, yes I do know they are popular but just because they are popular that doesn't mean they are the top people on cars. Brittney Spears is popular, does that make her the best singer?

Besides, on top of the "award" thing you cite (edit) Wikipedia (edit) and a couple of Yahoo questions?! It's funny how you don't mention the TOP GEAR link about how they liked the Hyundai Tiburon more then the Lexus (fact based info), or how cars are getting better and not worse like you suggested, but you want to "get me" using...........Yahoo Answers!? The one site that banned you.

OK, want me to post more "Hyundai positive" Top Gear stuff. Remember YOU trust Top Gear over everything and it was YOU who said Hyundai hasn't improved......

"The Hyundai Coupe looks decent enough and is pretty pleasant to drive"

"The i30 is not exactly a revelation, but average styling disguises a car that's actually OK"

"Hyundai's new Santa Fe is a much better-looking revision of the not-so-awful bargain soft-roader. Quality is on theup , but the prices are staying right down, which is as it should be"

http://www.topgear.com/drives/B6/B3/

...................... they aren't the biggest Hyundai fans but it was never a question of how good they were. It was whether or not if they improved since your 98' Accent. Top Gear even admits generation to generation improvements.

I was trying to honor your "Cease fire for the Olympics" but you tried to shoot me in the back over B.S.!
Now that you don't have Top Gear to cling to anymore my guess is your going to keep trying to find ANY negative review to say how bad Hyundai's are. If you do you will stray from your main point because all sources say they improved since your 98 Accent. Keep holding on to the Top Gear thing and that proves OUR (Hyundai Defenders) point even more.
The fact you deflected from your main point to throw us off shows deceitfulness. You started the "Hyundai hasn't improved thing" Top Gear being popular isn't the topic you started.
Can't bring knives to a gun fight my friend.

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Old 08-13-2008, 03:20 AM   #41
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

As I said cjgt2 I don’t have a problem leaving you expressing your opinion. I am democratic, not fascist and I am not afraid of noone. Some others seems to be afraid of me.
At “Yahoo! Answers” was not Yahoo that reported “abuse” for the suspension of my Account. My answers were not offensive to no one, just telling my opinion with the relative links that were usefull for someone to see the details and if the asker didn’t likec my answer, he wouldn’t choose it as best. Its a certain thing that the “Hyundai Defenders” reported “abuse” my answers and Yahoo by those reports mafe the suspension. That is obvious because one of my answers was to an asker that he also had bad opinion about Hyundai, so he didn’t reported “abuse” my answer.
You cjgt2 and other 2-3 guys, you are the most regular “Hyundai Defenders” in “Yahoo!answers”, you almost answer only in questions about Hyundai (don’t you have other interests?) and once, when I was fresh in “Yahoo!answers” you have told me that you discredited my answer. So, how can I believe you that you are telling the truth and you didn’t reported “abuse” my answers? Your behaviour is suspicious.
Anyway, I don’t care, I will make another new Account.

Now to our main case:
I concluded that you are became careless and don’t read our comments here. Because I have admit – because I am open minded - , in comment 35 that from time to time, Hyundai produces some relatively good cars, only for a small time period, to confuse consumers about Hyundai's quality. And I am asking again: Is that enough for you? If a company produces 60% of its products in a relatively good quality level and 40% in a low level of quality, is that OK with you? Because if it’s OK that means that when you are going to buy that product, you accept 40% possibility to take a problematic product. For me, its not enough. A company that behave like this, is showing no respect to customers and consumers and it’s unreliable.
Hyundai is acting like this, because it has not a permanent good quality level for all of its models, all the time.

As for the Top Gear, is unquestionable that is the top TV cars program worldwide. I said that the “heaviness” of Top Gear is bigger than JDPower. If you question this, you post a question in “Yahoo! Aswers” asking “What do you know and trust more about cars, the Top Gear TV programe or JDPower?” to see the results. Your comparison of Top Gear and Britney is senseless because the point is the combination of cars expertise and worldwide popularity. So the point its not only popularity. Britney is not a car expertise, is a pop star.
I also have said many times that I don’t trust absolutely none organization, either Top Gear, either JDPower. I trust absolutely only my experience and common sense.
The “award” of the worst car of the year 2004 given to Hyundai by Top Gear, I just mentioned because you provoke me with an “award” of JDPower to show me that Hyundai has great cars. Till then, I hadn’t mentioned any “award” because I don’t trust them. You provoke this and I answered by your “award” logic. Nothing more.
As for the Inernational Emmy Awards for Top Gear, I think they are objective and real because those awards are given to TV programs. I have never seen an Emmy Awarded TV program that not deserves the award. And that’s because in a field like TV that you have big population of viewers, can not award programs that are not agreeable and likeable from the television viewers. Otherwise, the awards would lose their value.

I am going back to Top Gear: you mentioned some good comments about Hyundai. What did I said before? I don’t trust absolutely no one except my experience and common sense. And I didn’t said that just before. It;s not something new. I have said that, lots of comments before. But again by your logic, using now the Top Gear, I will mention that Top Gear is mainly against korean brands. What that proves?
Again, it proves what I am saying: Hyundai (I believe and other brands) from time to time, produces some relatively good cars, only for a small time period, to confuse consumers about Hyundai's quality.
If Hyundai nowadays did produced always good quality cars (as you and the other “Hyundai Defenders” say), it would take only good criticism. But it’s not happening this. So all of you, the “Hyundai Defenders” are wrong. As for the comparison you show me in Top Gear for Lexus and Tiburon, if you believe that Tiburon is better, I leave it to our readers judgement. For me is someone gave me for free a Lexus or a Tiburon, I would chosen the Lexus.

You cjgt2 also said that I didn't mention how cars are getting better that you indicated in an article, I dodn’t avoid it. I will tell you: the article that you mentioned, speaks about the american market. The data of course are real but the comparison is done on the oldies cars of the american market. The american market in the previous 10 to 30 years was dominated by american brands. So the article you indicated shows only that the oldies american cars were of poor quality. Nothing more. In the last years that the sales of the japanese brands have increased a lot in US, the stats about the life time of the cars getting better. Why? That’s only proving that the japs brands are of a higher quality than oldies american cars.
But I don’t speak only for the american market. I am speaking for the global market. I live in Europe and here, the oldies –mostly european and japs- cars last much more than the new cars, either are european, japs, koreans or american.

Conclusion: Hyundai is not a reliable company.









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Old 08-13-2008, 07:39 AM   #42
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
We say the same thing with the only difference that you present the business of cars TV program very dependable to its advertisers. In general terms that’s true. But in the case of Top Gear with the power that has, its not true.
It's the case with ALL programming. Top Gear is not above the power of an advertiser and the producers of Top Gear know where their paycheck comes from...those same advertisers, not the viewers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
But you still didn’t answer me how an organization like JDPower realy lives? Ofcourse you said that sells consulting services to industries (what kind of consulting services?) and sells its surveys that rank businesses. Well, the ranks are almost open to viewers, so what it sells? I don’t understand. Tell me please.
But I did answer you, and I'm sorry that you didn't understand. "Consulting services" includes advice about how to improve manufacturing and marketing and other aspects of business. JD Power uses much of the information it gains from the survey side (distinct from the consulting side) to improve its consulting business. As far as those surveys go, the public doesn't see everything, just the highlights. JD Power ranks nearly everything, in detail where the public only sees the overall brand or model rankings and now WHY one was chosen over another. That's where JD Power gets its money.

I can't say for sure that JD Power doesn't get money from the companies it ranks to alter their rankings, but I can say that I'd trust JD Power's rankings over a magazine, even your prized Top Gear. Additionally, JD Power's rankings wouldn't be the WORLD STANDARD that they are if they were influenced by corporate payoffs.

Magazines, on the other hand, are provided all of their test vehicles by the same companies who pay their bills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
How are you sure Hudson?[/size][/font]
My experience working in the automotive industry for so long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial][size=2]I accept that JDPower is one of the big companies of this kind of businesses, but its not more known and famous globally than Top Gear.
I'd have to agree to disagree. JD Power is VERY well-known in almost every country around the world as the STANDARD for quality rankings while Top Gear is hardly known in the US by anyone other than hardcore automotive fanatics. I've got to think that it's similar around the world where JD Power is in more industries than just automotive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
[font=Arial][size=2]...And as my Accent produced at a Hyundai production line of a Hyundai Factory, with the Hyundai’s standards, with the Hyundai’s chosen raw materials, like this and the previous (than mine) vehicle that produced would have been problematic...
See, there you go assuming stuff again. Your "bad" car does not mean that the car next to it was bad as well. EVERY company builds a bad car once in a while, even right next to perfectly good ones. But you still haven't shown why your car, that has survived for a decade, is so "problematic." And you obviously haven't shown why 10 years on, it's so defective that Hyundai should go back and fix ANYTHING wrong with it. Build quality problems show up rather quickly, like within the first year of ownership. If there was a problem, it should have been addressed in 1999, not 2008...if you waited this long to complain, that's YOUR problem.

And let's use your comparison on another example. Two children are born to the same parents and raised in the same household and attending the same schools. One child gets in trouble with the law...therefore the other child should be jailed as well since they both should be "problematic." Right?

Oh...and their parents should be at fault for giving birth to them 20 years earlier.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:08 PM   #43
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

You cjgt2 and other 2-3 guys, you are the most regular “Hyundai Defenders” in “Yahoo! answers”, you almost answer only in questions about Hyundai (don’t you have other interests?)" - sofpan

If you really looked at my profile I'm all over the place in Y!A. I spend alot of time in Hyundai because......Well, I own a Hyundai and feel I can help other people with their car plus when they have a real problem I get sick of people coming out with something nonsensical like "Hyuhnda sux". The real question is why were you in there if all you can offer is a "cut and paste" rant for every question? Oh I almost forgot, you did say to "shout at Hyundai" for some of them along with the "cut and paste" rant. How ignorant was that? Did it ever occur to that maybe the person asking the question was offended by your "answer"?

"from time to time, Hyundai produces some relatively good cars, only for a small time period, to confuse consumers about Hyundai's quality" "If a company produces 60% of its products in a relatively good quality level and 40% in a low level of quality, is that OK with you?"- sofpan

Got ANYprove of this? No, of course not, but it's pretty obvious your trying to save some credibility. Picking up the pieces after your comments were blown to bits. Why start the topic if you’re not willing to finish it? The only evidence you can come up, after your said statements, is Top Gear giving a bad award to a car 4 yrs ago, after I cited a good award given out to the same car in the present time. To defend you statement and the bad award you post how great Top Gear is because.......they are part of the BBC and popular. But now you have some reservations about Top Gear because.......I cited some positive comments they made about Hyundai? So now it's not about how good Hyundai's have gotten (you've conceded to that in your roundabout way) ........but how good Top Gear is, no........Oh wait, now it's, in your own opinion, inconsistent quality? Well, I'm not the type to pour salt on an open wound but this is from Top Gear's reliability survey if it's still relevant to you............

1 Skoda (UP)
Once-humble Skoda pushes the Japanese from the top slot
2 Lexus (DOWN)
Masters of build quality forced to a still-good second place
3 Honda (-)
Top two places in the car list helped secure a third place overall
4 Mazda (-)
Fourth place for the second year running
5 Mini (UP)
Mini's strong following means it's up two places at five
6 Subaru (-)
Another non-mover - would have scored higher but for high ownership costs
7 Toyota (DOWN)
Down two places for Toyota against last year's survey
8 Porsche (-)
Consistent performer, but reliability score lower than you'd expect
9 Jaguar (-)
Strong performance from the XJ helped Jag hold on to ninth
10 Hyundai (UP)
Hyundai swaps places with BMW - thanks in part to good service

11 BMW (DOWN)
X3 is most reliable car in the survey, but BMW still slipped a place
12 Suzuki (UP)
Decent performance means Suzuki moves up three places
13 Seat (UP)
Seat's up too, but not so impressive next to Skoda's performance
14 Lotus (UP)
Build quality was the only thing holding Lotus back
15 Audi (DOWN)
We expected better than middle of the table from Audi
16 Volvo (DOWN)
Reasonable effort, but didn't score well for ownership costs
17 Kia (UP)
A promising improvement against last year

18 Smart (-)
Smart holds onto its place just past the half way mark
19 Volkswagen (UP)
Modest improvement held back by surprisingly average scores
20 Nissan (DOWN)
Nissan slips one place from last year


The list goes on http://www.topgear.com/content/carsurvey/2006/features/08/2.html

I wasn't sure if I should've posted this because I'm not sure what your point is anymore.

Your pride and ego is the only thing that's keeping you going. You were done in since Y!A's. You wanted to stir up a hornets nest and got stung but you hung in there until post # 35. Good for you, but your pride is misplaced. You know the diffence between an opinion, facts and all in between so now this is getting a little weird. Get your car fixed or get another one it's just that simple. You can't convince the whole world all Hyundai's are bad just as much as I can't convince them otherwise.

I'm not going to post anymore because I got what I came for. To keep posting facts to oppose opinions and vice versa is senseless and you know this. Even if you post in Y!A's I’ll let nature take it's course. I know what I said there irked you but I didn't report you. Seriously, did you really not expect a heated debate after what you said? Show some maturity and try to help. You may have gotten some help for your car if you didn't let you emotions get in the way. I'm done "playing" with you. But I wouldn't refuse you if you need help. Good Luck.

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Old 08-13-2008, 05:33 PM   #44
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
I can't say for sure that JD Power doesn't get money from the companies it ranks to alter their rankings, but I can say that I'd trust JD Power's rankings over a magazine, even your prized Top Gear. Additionally, JD Power's rankings wouldn't be the WORLD STANDARD that they are if they were influenced by corporate payoffs.

I’m glad that you finally didn’t refused that an organization like JDPower maybe, is paid off by some customers to alter their really ranks. We don’t know it, so we can not take its ranks for granted, something to trust absolutely. I disagree in the issue of the power in the specific TV program (Top Gear). I believe that Top Gear have no need to hunt advertisements. The companies have the need to advertise themselfs at a program like Top Gear. Top Gear has the upper hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
EVERY company builds a bad car once in a while, even right next to perfectly good ones.

How is that possible? The raw materials are chosen by the factory and have passed quality control. The standards are the same, chosen by the factory. The production line is the same that the factory builded. So if all the parameters are the same, how only one car can be diseffective?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson
But you still haven't shown why your car, that has survived for a decade, is so "problematic."

Ten years time I believe is not so big, its not so small for a car. But my car is defective because I have done only 90.000 klms (that would be about 70.000 miles), a number of miles that trully is small for a decade. I also –and always- drive “gently”, that means that I don’t accelerating strong, not driving fast, I don’t push hard my engine. The miles I have done are done gradually in the decade (that is proven from my service book). I always do (since today but no more) the service only in the expensive (comparable to other more prestigious brands) authorised Hyundai points.
Considering all these, do you think that the last problem that my engine has inside (burns a lot of oils), is something usual, that happens often under those circumstances? You think that this particular problem under those circumstances, is something of a car with quality?
I don’t think so. For me its obvious that my poor quality car, has a defective engine. Hyundai ought to fix it for free.
I believe that your examble about the two kids was unsuccessful to comment it.

For cjgt2 (or anyone of the other “Hyundai Defenders”):
The "cut and paste" tactic is correct when you want to say the same things to different people. You -that accuse the “cut and paste” tactic- you cut and pasted the top ranks and positionings of Hyundai in the most of the relative questions on “Yahoo! Answers”. Did I accused you for cut and paste? NO.
Yes cjgt2, when a Hyundai car has an unacceptable problem, you must shout at your dealer. It’s the correct thing to do to whatever company, when you gave them your money and they sold you a piece of junk.
I don’t need stats to show the obvious. I can find many issues about new Hyundais serious problems in the internet. So we have a big number of new hyundais that have problems. I don’t know the exact number (and how can I know it? how anybody can know the number of problematic, low quality cars of any company?) but I can sure you, that there are a lot of Hyundai cars still problematic. So, those facts from cases in internet that everyone finds, show to us that Hyundai is not stable to a good quality level. Builds some goods, builds some awfull bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjgt2
But now you have some reservations about Top Gear because.......I cited some positive comments they made about Hyundai?

I refered to Top Gear when you show me some “award” to Hyundai from JDPower. I never claimed that Top Gear is questionless. I just said that I believe that is more “heavy” than JDPower.

Cjgt2 thanks for the list of Top Gear in your last comment. The list that you show me from Top Gear, is something that I wanted to show. I believe:
1) That the brands with Quality (I didn’t write accidentaly the word quality with a capital Q) are barely till the 10th position. Hyundai is in the 10th position. So it’s not in the pure cream of Quality. Ofcourse someone can say that Hyundai is improving... Do you believe that Hyundai is improving its quality in a permanent basis or improving its quality for some period, just to confuse the consumers? Consider the low resale value... Hyundai is not anymore a new player in the market... If you believe that Hyundai has great cars, OK, buy them. It’s your money.
2) As someone can see in the list some cars brands independently from their top positionings, are rated “DOWN”, like Lexus, Toyota, BMW. What that is showing to us?

That auto makers as the years passing, reduce the quality!!!

What I’m telling you almost in every comment on this Thread? That car makers by the pressure of low cost, to compete each other, reduce the quality. But all of you, the “Hyundai Defenders” you question this common sense and keep telling me “No, that’s not truth, all the auto makers increase quality”. Finally, who is wrong” who is right?

Conclusion till now: Hyundai cheat us because occasionaly sold us cars with low quality. They are not a few cars. They are lot of cars. A serious and important indication is that of the low resale value. Think about...

And see a nice short video and I would like to question it. Especially watch the period from 1min53sec. to 3min10sec. (it explains the quality matter of korean cars). Enjoy it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KzSfK0EdUY


Sofianopoulos Panayiotis (sofpan) sofpan@yahoo.com
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:47 PM   #45
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Re: HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
I only retain the cease-fire with lowsonome1999 that didn’t provoke me.
I just gave up, that is all. Obviously, nothing is going to change your mind, no matter how many facts or awards we throw at your thick skull, so why even waste my time. I do come in to read the posts because I find them funny, how Top Gear is the best, BBC is the greatest, Hyundais are horrible, and how car makers reduce quality over the years to reduce costs. Your way of thinking is so far off, it is quite possible, you might be the only one on the planet that has your beliefs. Go to the last 10 seconds of your video you just posted. That 10 seconds almost made it sound like that whole episode was a joke. They talk about how there isn't a single car coming from Korea that's any good, yet, at the very end, they say the Tiburon, or Coupe, is a good car, for a reasonable price. You want my opinion on that video? It sounds to me like they are biased towards VW. They keep referring to VW throughout it, wishing some of the cars would be like a VW, how the car actually does have a really nice interior, just like VW. Here in the states, VW isn't the greatest of car. For the longest time, VW only came with a 2yr/24k mile warranty, and they were constantly on the bottom on JD Powers quality studies, but yet Top Gear seems to think they are the best out there.
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