my Voyager has serious problems and this van is my families only vehicle

[fallen4shell]

Originally Posted by slantsixness

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but the EGR may not be the problem at all.
5 or 6 times now, I've seen the 3.3, 3.0 and 3.8L motors cough and choke, run rough, or the idle surge for no apparent reasons. and the ECM will throw stupid codes, sending you in a whirlwind of replacement parts..... that never really fixes them.

Try this:
Check your fuel pressure, or bite the bullet and replace the failing fuel pump. Either way, the regulator (built in toi the pump assembly) is probably shot.

Replace the EGR if you want to, but it wont really effect how the van runs as you say it does...

And don't buy the cheap pump from discount parts stores, buy a bosch assembly if you can find it... worth the extra $20 for the right part.

I don't know for certain about the 3.3 or 3.8, but I have a Caravan with the 3.0 and the fuel pressure regulator is on the fuel rail. I think that this is the case on 99.9% of vehicles. The only vehicles that I have seen that have a regulator in the pump are some of the GM fuel pump modules used on vortec engines with the "spider legs" type electronic injector.

The fuel pump does have a check valve which keeps the fuel from draining back into the tank via the pressure line while the pump is not running. I have seen these go bad quite often. Cycle the key about 4 times and then if it starts and runs better this could be a problem....usually once the engine starts and runs for a few seconds and the fuel pressure is built back up it will not cause you any drivability problems. Been driving my van for about 10 years now with this problem....just have to cycle the key when I try to start it to avoid long cranking times.

[RIP]

Yes, it's on the fuel rail :http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm See figure 3.

[dragon_kin01]

ok i got it running by replacing the in tank fuel pump, the entire assembly. cleaned the tank the best i could and filled with fresh gas. I have replace the fuel filter now twice in 1 month. im thinking something is cloging the fuel pump strainer. the entire exhaust is brand new. i had a 92 grand caravan with the same everything and used my compuer on this 1 and there was no change so i know the computer is fine. ive running fuel system cleaner, oil change and treatment, coolant flush and treatment and still have the problem.

[Bernard Feltzer]

I read on another post some guy had the same problem.
It took him months to find 2 of the fuel injectors were intermitant.
He had contamination in his gas tank, the junk got into his fuel injectors.
Van worked fine when cold and at the expensive dealer shop, after it warmed up good, it would sputter.
He replaced the 2 bad injectors, problem was solved.

[fallen4shell]

Originally Posted by dragon_kin01

ok i got it running by replacing the in tank fuel pump, the entire assembly. cleaned the tank the best i could and filled with fresh gas. I have replace the fuel filter now twice in 1 month. im thinking something is cloging the fuel pump strainer. the entire exhaust is brand new. i had a 92 grand caravan with the same everything and used my compuer on this 1 and there was no change so i know the computer is fine. ive running fuel system cleaner, oil change and treatment, coolant flush and treatment and still have the problem.

I tend to agree with Bernard that the injectors are going to be your next place to look. You said you ran fuel system cleaner through it....was that simply the dump-in-tank type cleaner? If so, you might consider a pressurized concentrated fuel injector cleaner. You might shop around to see if there is a shop who has a decent price for cleaning your injectors...and weigh that against the cost of new injectors.

[dragon_kin01]

Originally Posted by fallen4shell

I tend to agree with Bernard that the injectors are going to be your next place to look. You said you ran fuel system cleaner through it....was that simply the dump-in-tank type cleaner? If so, you might consider a pressurized concentrated fuel injector cleaner. You might shop around to see if there is a shop who has a decent price for cleaning your injectors...and weigh that against the cost of new injectors.

I use to work with Firestone and ran a fuel system cleaner kit through the motor. (injector cleaner, combustion chamber cleaner, and throttle body cleaner. ) the injector cleaner is almost pure concentrate and its a tank dump.

now on the injectors. i was pulling a 26 code (bad injector circuit or injector) but now I'm not. I've listen to each injector of clicking and they all function.

[dragon_kin01]

Update guys. I picked up some STP injector cleaner super concentrate and dumped it into the tank which has next to no fuel in it. Ran it hard and it reved up real good then died to a sputter then reved up and died down to a sputter again. The check engine light came on and I pulled codes. Now I'm pulling a code 41 (open or shrt in the altenator field ciucit). Thus far the computer has thrown a code 25 (fixed), 26 (twice then cleared itself twice), and now a 41.

Why is the computer throwning codes left and right? I'm thinking the computer itself is bad. Anyone agree or disagree? And would that account for the sputtering, poping, and stalling? I'm still going to drop the fuel tank again to ensure the tank is clean and the fuel strainer on the pump isn't clogged.

[fallen4shell]

Just because the injectors are all "clicking" doesn't necessarily mean they are good. If they are stopped up they can click all day long and never let any gas through. How did it look inside the gas tank when you pulled it the first time? Any rust, slime, mud, dirt, sludge, or water, etc?

Did it run any better AT ALL after you ran the STP injector cleaner through it?

The injector cleaner *system* that I am talking about actually hooks directly to the fuel rail or into the fuel line and the engine actually runs directly off of the cleaner. I don't care how "concentrated" the bottle you buy at the auto parts store says it is....the second you dump one pint of "concentrated" fuel injector cleaner into even just a couple gallons of gas that is in your tank (and there was probably more than that) then your cleaner becomes very diluted. For example....a one pint bottle of injector cleaner dumped into 2 gallons of gasoline means you have diluted your "concentrated" injector cleaner to about 6 parts out of 100! Compare that to a pressurized injector cleaner system where you will have 100% cleaner which is usually even stronger stuff than your typical stp type stuff anyway...imo. Plus, you can hook it up and let that concentrate soak in your fuel rail for as long as needed before even starting the process. I have seen this type of fuel system cleaner make a HUGE difference in clogged injectors that pour-in-tank type cleaners weren't even touching. You don't have to take my advice, but just keep in mind I am just trying to help you...unlike your mechanic, I have no reason to recommend high dollar services to you that don't really do anything.

If I were you, I wouldn't buy a computer just yet. Another friendly piece of advice: I don't think it's good for an engine to rev it up to extremely high RPM's with no load on the engine (if I read your post right)...good way to blow one up IMHO.

Good luck and let us know if you find out anything else.

[dragon_kin01]

ok guys ill make a video and post it with a link to it ans show you what im talking about maybe that will help a bit more.

[bjaymo3]

Originally Posted by dragon_kin01

ok guys ill make a video and post it with a link to it ans show you what im talking about maybe that will help a bit more.

I had a very similar problem with the engine "surging" and coughing. After a lot of procedures mentioned to you already, my mechanic and good friend got into the van and ran it for 20 seconds. Then, he told me it's either the spark plug wires or the distributor cap. Lo and behold, I started pulling plug wires off the distributor and the very first one I looked at had a green corrosion on the wire end and the distributor end. I replaced all the wires and have never seen the problem again. That was about 10K miles ago.

[bjaymo3]

By the way. It's not really a "distributor cap" but the proper term escapes me at the moment. (I've been having this problem a lot since turning 55!)

[dragon_kin01]

the term is DIS (Distribulatorless Ignition System). The plug wires could have a factor in it and i know its not the DIS since if tested spark stright from it and got shocked to shit all 6 times and ran a multimeter on it see the correct voltage. I have it.

Now< I've neglected to mention for a long while that when I replaced the fuel pump, the tank was cleaned to the best i could do. i ran the van from a month straight and the surge and choking started. I had a feeling it was a mechanical fuel problem. i pulled the fuel filter and blow into it. a brand new filter no more than 1 month old was clogged completely.

I feel that the fuel line before the filter is clogged and the tank has stird up the sediment that was in it from sitting for 6+ years. Replacing the fuel line before the filter, the pump strianer and the tank should clear up the problem. would any1 else agree?

[pentabob]

I think you found it dragon
bob

[dragon_kin01]

Originally Posted by pentabob

I think you found it dragon
bob

i hope so. im goin to drop the tank today and take out the pump. im goin to place it in a seperate bucket away from the tank with some fresh fuel and run it to see it anything runs different. if it runs find im gettin a new tank and fuel lines. (complete, from pump to injector rail.) if this is the problem, can anyone tell me a place to get a 20 gallon tank for the van at a good price? i know of 1 place but id like others.

thanks soo much for the help with this damn van guys.

[dragon_kin01]

update gentlemen. i dropped the tank and in it was gas soacked senitment crap. its crushes but i hope it dissolves. ive knocked at the tank with a rubber mallet and got a bunch of this crap out but there is still more in it. besides a wire brush and elbow grease what would get this crap out?