Old School vs. New School

[freakonaleash1187]

i agree the companies need to get better and better. the performance of cars are getting better, but i think the styling isn't as good as old school. new cars are starting to look really tall. i'm not saying that new cars look bad, i am just saying that old school cars look better. ex. 300zx looks better than 350z---rx-7 looks better than rx-8---evo and sti just look to much like a econo-box to me

[Joseph1082]

But the new 350Z went to a honda-like high compression n/a motor. I'm also asking how anyone can think that all these new n/a cars can hang w/ TT cars... so what, the new Supra will be a 4.0 n/a I6 making 300HP. Where are you gonna go from there.

[freakonaleash1187]

i can't remember the exact number but i know my 300zx has over 10.0:1 compression. but i think companies are going to higher compression engines because they recognize they can get more horsepower out of it and with the new technologies today, engines are more reliable so they can push the engines more.

[nacho_nissan]

Originally Posted by Joseph1082

But the new 350Z went to a honda-like high compression n/a motor. I'm also asking how anyone can think that all these new n/a cars can hang w/ TT cars... so what, the new Supra will be a 4.0 n/a I6 making 300HP. Where are you gonna go from there.

lets say it comes with a 4.0l 6in-line. 300hp? thats alot already. you can always supercharge it! im guesing itll bump you up to high 300's with just a supercherger! or even TT! some people just like N/A. and not everyone who gets a supra(like a 40 year old lady) is gonna race her supra! so thats why you have a base model one with perhaps a n/a 4.0l 6 in-line, and then for those little rich kids who want a nice fast ride, you have a 4.0l 6i Twin Turbo! and if not, theres always HKS, GReddy or someone who will! and about the looks... i actually see the 300ZX and 350Z as 2 beautiful, different cars! lets say a integra for example! back in the days it was a ugly econobox! real ugly one! then now days, you have a RSX(same thing,diff name) looking so nice! who thinks the integras from the 80's look better than a RSX??

[Joseph1082]

You missed the point, you can't boost an n/a 300HP motor... it makes all that power due to high compression, most likely over 10. In contrast, an FI motor wants to have a Comp Ratio of 8.4, that is the ideal, but close can be good enough. Making power from high compression is the exact opposite of making it from boost. Any of the new High Comp engine would require a rebuild to make them take FI. If we are going into to complete rebuilds we loose the meaningfulness of this comparo because you could rebuild anything to whatever you want, if you have $$$. I'd rather have a RX-7 TT two-seater exotic ANYDAY than a Saturn Door-style BS RX-8.

[eckoman_pdx]

Nacho Nissan, you are completly missing the points here...

You can't just "or even TT" these newer cars. Even when you thorw the boost one, you can ONLY GO LOW BOOST. THEY ARE MADE FOR N/A. This means a HIGH COMPRESSION RATIO. THIS IS BAD FOR FORCED INDUCTION. The motors can't handle much boost without blowing. The POwer numbers you statement as examples are the MAX POWER you MIGHT GET..and for your info, the greddy TT kit for the 350Z ($6000) puts down about 350WHP...and that's about the max you'll safely get out of the 350Z without blowing the motor. Now, that's just bairly the start with a Supra, and it won't cost much to get there to boot...same goes for the RX-7, that's the start of what they can do. The 300ZX can get into the 400HP's easy...again...350HP is the start of what it can do. You are blindly refusing to see that the playing feild isn't balenced, these older TT cars can SIMPLE HANDLE MORE POWER without blowing the motor...PERIOD.

The RX-7 was AN EXOTIC CAR BECAUSE THE TUNERS WHO BUILD IT MADE IT THAT WAY....THE RX-8 OWES DRIECT LINIAGE TO THE RX-7...IF YOU TELL MAZDA YOU CAN'T COMPARE THE 2, THEY'LL TELL YOU YOU'RE ON CRACK. The older RX-7's weren't conisdered Exotic, it was the last gen...and that earned the rep because the the people who hard grown to love the old Rotary build some builtiful and powerful turbo'd cars. Also, the RX-7 is part of this dissucssion, read the VERY FIRST POST. It is fully relevent to discuss them in this thread and compare them to others. You must remember what this thread is about.

As for the Mach 1, if that's the case, it's a testimest to the tuners skills. I know of several older mustangs that will beat the crap out of almost ANY of the new ones. It's all about the builder, not the age. Any skilled engine builder can take a motor and build it up. But at the limit, I'd feel better with the Older Mach 1...it was more capable of high power...but you want to compare old and new fords...the Old Cobra was massivly detuned from the factory...not much tuning was required to seriously boost the output withouth mods...The new cobra may have power, but if you are seriously tuning and modifying both to the limits, the older one will blow the newer ones doors off...Caroll Shebly new his stuff. Also, if you know anything about FORD's, you'll know the newer Mach 1's can't go more than 80,000 miles before the motot blows on boost (supercharger, turbo, etc)...why...the comperssion is too high...again...this wasn't an issue with the older TT Japanese Big Dogs. Like it or not, the RX-8 was origanally made to be Mazda's RX-7 replacement. There is no New Supra yet, so don't speculate. You are missing the whole point...this thread was about which are better pefromance and mod wise...so the old lady with the N/A Supra is not part of this discussion...or course different people like different cars...but this thread is abotu POWER and PERFORMANCE...do we like the Old School Japanese cars or the new ones...and the fact is, for high power and performance, you can't get the power N/A you can get on Boost...RX-7/RX-8, 300ZX, 350Z, even N/A Supra TT Supra. It holds true...just because it's newer doesn't mean better.

[Joseph1082]

The comment about about the RX-7/RX-8, r u talking to me... I hate the new RX-8, the RX-7 is SOOOOOO much better.

[nacho_nissan]

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

Nacho Nissan, you are completly missing the points here...

You can't just "or even TT" these newer cars. Even when you thorw the boost one, you can ONLY GO LOW BOOST. THEY ARE MADE FOR N/A. This means a HIGH COMPRESSION RATIO. THIS IS BAD FOR FORCED INDUCTION. The motors can't handle much boost without blowing. The POwer numbers you statement as examples are the MAX POWER you MIGHT GET..and for your info, the greddy TT kit for the 350Z ($6000) puts down about 350WHP...and that's about the max you'll safely get out of the 350Z without blowing the motor. Now, that's just bairly the start with a Supra, and it won't cost much to get there to boot...same goes for the RX-7, that's the start of what they can do. The 300ZX can get into the 400HP's easy...again...350HP is the start of what it can do. You are blindly refusing to see that the playing feild isn't balenced, these older TT cars can SIMPLE HANDLE MORE POWER without blowing the motor...PERIOD.

The RX-7 was AN EXOTIC CAR BECAUSE THE TUNERS WHO BUILD IT MADE IT THAT WAY....THE RX-8 OWES DRIECT LINIAGE TO THE RX-7...IF YOU TELL MAZDA YOU CAN'T COMPARE THE 2, THEY'LL TELL YOU YOU'RE ON CRACK. The older RX-7's weren't conisdered Exotic, it was the last gen...and that earned the rep because the the people who hard grown to love the old Rotary build some builtiful and powerful turbo'd cars. Also, the RX-7 is part of this dissucssion, read the VERY FIRST POST. It is fully relevent to discuss them in this thread and compare them to others. You must remember what this thread is about.

As for the Mach 1, if that's the case, it's a testimest to the tuners skills. I know of several older mustangs that will beat the crap out of almost ANY of the new ones. It's all about the builder, not the age. Any skilled engine builder can take a motor and build it up. But at the limit, I'd feel better with the Older Mach 1...it was more capable of high power...but you want to compare old and new fords...the Old Cobra was massivly detuned from the factory...not much tuning was required to seriously boost the output withouth mods...The new cobra may have power, but if you are seriously tuning and modifying both to the limits, the older one will blow the newer ones doors off...Caroll Shebly new his stuff. Also, if you know anything about FORD's, you'll know the newer Mach 1's can't go more than 80,000 miles before the motot blows on boost (supercharger, turbo, etc)...why...the comperssion is too high...again...this wasn't an issue with the older TT Japanese Big Dogs. Like it or not, the RX-8 was origanally made to be Mazda's RX-7 replacement. There is no New Supra yet, so don't speculate. You are missing the whole point...this thread was about which are better pefromance and mod wise...so the old lady with the N/A Supra is not part of this discussion...or course different people like different cars...but this thread is abotu POWER and PERFORMANCE...do we like the Old School Japanese cars or the new ones...and the fact is, for high power and performance, you can't get the power N/A you can get on Boost...RX-7/RX-8, 300ZX, 350Z, even N/A Supra TT Supra. It holds true...just because it's newer doesn't mean better.

ok,i got your point! but why cant you get mine?? is it soo hard? let me try one more time! the Z32 was introduced in the 1991! did it come with a turbo back then? no. it was a few years later till it came with the VG30DETT! so what makes you think the 350Z wont come with a VQ35DETT in a few years?? you cant compare the VG30DETT wo the VQ35DE. thats my point! you can tho, compare the VG30DE to the VQ35DE. and about mazda, no-one in this world would rather have a RX-8 than a RX-7 because IT IS NOT THE SAME CAR!!!! the RX-8 is a 4-door car! WTF? it doesnt even look as good as the RX-7. maybe it was made to replace the RX-7, but it will never be replaced in no-ones eyes! and yall are also basing your opinions on looks! you just quoted "but this thread is abotu POWER and PERFORMANCE.." some of you are talking about how the 300ZX looks better than a 350Z and that why yall voted for "old skool". until nissan doesnt boost the 350z from the factory, you cant compare them!

[Joseph1082]

the RX-7 is more than just looks... being a two-seater makes it a "true" sports car. Also, it is one of the very FEW cars that have a perfect 50/50 weight ratio, making in one of the best handling cars as well... all around this was a PERFORMANCE car only... now it is replaced by a more comfortable alternative.

[Layla's Keeper]

I want to know when in the hell did a group of cars that STAYED IN PRODUCTION 'til the turn of the millenium become old school?

Seriously, come up with a new word. Old school is Mikuni carburettors and ANSA exhausts. Old school is fiberglass being the radical material. Old school is 15inch 3piece Panasports on centre lock wheels wrapped in bias-ply Dunlops. Old school is manual steering, Koni shocks, LEAF SPRINGS, and Old school is wringing the most out of a car while spending the least.

It's not ordering parts out of a catalog, it's fabrication, machining, and effort. Old School is a rock solid ride and atrocious wet weather handling. Old school is wicked turbo lag and overrun, and a preference for natural aspiration.

No EFI wearing, computer controlled suspension, active aerodynamic, sequential turbocharger, digital dashboard, tunable muffler, all wheel drive, all wheel steering, ABS machine is old school. You want old school? Go SA22C RX-7 shopping, or 240Z, or Toyota Celica Supra.

God, kids these days. My car doesn't even have fluid shocks and they're calling 3000GT VR-4's old school.

[nacho_nissan]

Originally Posted by Layla's Keeper

I want to know when in the hell did a group of cars that STAYED IN PRODUCTION 'til the turn of the millenium become old school?

Seriously, come up with a new word. Old school is Mikuni carburettors and ANSA exhausts. Old school is fiberglass being the radical material. Old school is 15inch 3piece Panasports on centre lock wheels wrapped in bias-ply Dunlops. Old school is manual steering, Koni shocks, LEAF SPRINGS, and Old school is wringing the most out of a car while spending the least.

It's not ordering parts out of a catalog, it's fabrication, machining, and effort. Old School is a rock solid ride and atrocious wet weather handling. Old school is wicked turbo lag and overrun, and a preference for natural aspiration.

No EFI wearing, computer controlled suspension, active aerodynamic, sequential turbocharger, digital dashboard, tunable muffler, all wheel drive, all wheel steering, ABS machine is old school. You want old school? Go SA22C RX-7 shopping, or 240Z, or Toyota Celica Supra.

God, kids these days. My car doesn't even have fluid shocks and they're calling 3000GT VR-4's old school.

sorry mr smartie! our knowledge might not be all the way up there with you! but for us.. a car that has not been produced for 8 years is old skool! what else can it be called? and your car is just prehistoric! the comparison is between the last generation and the one before that! yes..kids these days...and also..mods these days...they already forgot when they entered the forums for 1st time not knowing sh!t! sorry again mr!

[Demon_Mustang]

sheesh, old people...



j/k keeper, lol

[eckoman_pdx]

Originally Posted by Joseph1082

The comment about about the RX-7/RX-8, r u talking to me... I hate the new RX-8, the RX-7 is SOOOOOO much better.

No, my comment was to Nacho Nissan. Even though some people claim no connection between the RX-8 and RX-7, there is one to Mazda. It was Mazda's replacement, whether we like it or not. Just like the 300ZX was replaced by the 350Z. Now he might claim we "can't compare them" because oneis N/A and one is boosted. That's just BS...Mazda replaced the RX-7 with the RX-8, and Nissan the 300ZX TT with the 350Z. Do I like it, do most of us like this? No...but the fact remains these are the replacement cars. That being said, that is a prefectly good reason to compare them. Me, I'll take the RX-7 and 300ZX. BTW....the last gen 300ZX TT was 90-96 Nacho Nissan.

Nacho Nissan, I didn't "grasp your point" becuase it keeps changing. First it was New School is better, always. Then it's, well, even trough new school isn't boosted, they are still better, then just add boost!!!! "Maybe even a TT!!" Then it changes to "you can't compare old and new school!!! or..."They are different, 2, 4 doors, etc..no boost, etc."

The point is, this thread is "old school vs new school." Buy the very nature of the thread topic...WE ARE SUPPOSED TO COMPARE THEM. Now, why don't I "grasp your point?" It's because you don't have one, your opinion changes with each post, depending on what others have said, disproved and said etc. Your point keeps changing each post based on what others say. Why should I respect and "grasp" a point that flexs like rubber?

BTW...Layla's Keeper...I agree with you on the "true" old school japanase cars and the meaning of old school. I wouldn't call a Supra old school just becasue it hasn't been in production for 8 years...the 1st gen RX-7, early Supra's, Corrilla AE86, 240Z...those ARE the true old school cars. All this calling the 93-96 RX-7, the 90-96 300ZX, the last gen Supra...those arn't old school. Those are great cars that were cut from the prodcution line-up. They'll be old school someday, not yet. Heck, the NA Supra motor is still produced and sold new....as a Lexus IS 300 motor...gee....some "old school" when you can go buy a car with the same N/A motor new off a lot today. Just because production ceeses doesn't make it old school. Old school is when it's old enough the technolgy differs significantly, i.e...fuel injection vs carberators, Early Supra Corrillas versus last gen Supras, 1st gen RX-7 vs last gen, etc...

[aznxthuggie]

Originally Posted by 3000ways

In this case, Old School isn't really that old, because I am speaking of the cars that dominated the US import scene in the 90s till this day. The cars I am speaking of are the Japanese Twin Turbos. The Toyota Supra Twin Turbo, Mazda RX-7, Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo, and the Mitsubishi 3000GT (GTO) VR4. But now there is a New School and these cars should not be taken lightly, and these cars I am speaking of are the Mitsubishi Evolution, Subaru WRX STI, Nissan 350Z, Mazda RX-8, and yes even the Mitsubishi turboed Dodge Neon SRT-4. The Old School has been around longer, so of course alot of Supras, RX-7s, and etc. are in the 12s, 11s, and 10s street legal. But what's impressive is the number of New School cars that are in the 12s, 11s, and yes some in the 10s, and they haven't even been around in the USA for more than 2 years. I hear less and less about the Old School, and more and more pages of the tuning magazines are being dedicated to the New Class. What do you think as far as just performance (meaning no styling or etc.)? Do you think the New Class is now the king of imports? If not now, 2 years from now, will the New School take out the Old School? Is there a day when the EVO and STI will strike more fear at a drag strip than a Supra or RX-7?

i thought he made it pretty clear what "old school" and "new school was" if you dont like this thread then make your own, we're debating about the old cars, and their new replacments

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by Layla's Keeper

God, kids these days. My car doesn't even have fluid shocks and they're calling 3000GT VR-4's old school.

You consider the late 70s and 80s old school?

Nah, mate. Old school is the 60s and 70s! The 80s are best remember as something that didnt happen.