Impreza 2.5 RS vs. Mazda 3s vs. Honda Civic Si

[Shmackey]

I've decided that I can't afford a WRX--not the car cost, the mileage, the premium gas, the insurance, etc.--so I'm looking for a "next best thing."

Seems like $18k or $19k won't get you in a 180- or 200-hp pocket rocket, and 165 seems to be fair to expect.

So I'm looking at the Impreza, the Mazda, and the Honda. I'm skeptical about VW reliability, not to mention Dodge if I could find a lightly used SRT-4. So let's stick to the Japanese models.

The Impreza is the obvious choice for "poor man's WRX," but I hear that the Mazda is even more fun to drive. And the Honda should last the longest of the three, which is important because I put about 30k miles on my car each year. So, the list:

Impreza 2.5 RS: AWD, WRX-like seats and interior, likely to be reliable

Mazda 3s: Perhaps more fun to drive than Impreza, but unknown reliability

Honda: Not thrilled with the appearance, but should be the most reliable, probably almost as zippy as the others.

I'm leaning toward the Impreza because I get plenty of snow out here, but I'd like to hear what you think about these three.

Thanks!

P.S. If there are other Japanese models that fit my needs, I'm open to new ideas. But I don't want another Sentra, and the base-model Celica is obviously a girl car.

[drdisque]

the 3S is the torquiest, but if you wanna have fun in the snow, go ahead and get the Impreza, they're kinda heavy but they're the lighest AWD car you'll find. Subarus are kinda hard to work on because of the boxer engine layout though.

[kman10587]

I think there are three other cars you need to consider: the Toyota Corolla XRS, the Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart, and the Scion tC.

Now, I was shopping in the exact same market segment a few months ago, so I've driven every one of these cars. And out of all of them, I'd have to say that my favorite was the Corolla XRS. It uses the 1.8L 180 horsepower engine from the Celica GT-S (detuned to 170 horsepower), along with its six-speed manual. It's a Corolla, so you know it will be reliable, safe, and user-friendly. Thanks to the engine's small size, gas mileage is quite good as long as you don't go screaming to 7000 rpm constantly, and when you do -- what a rush. I actually like Toyota's VVT-i better than Honda's VTEC; it feels more hyper and frenzied.

If not the Corolla, my next choice would be the Mazda 3 s. It's also very fun to drive, and the styling is very nice. The Scion tC is a fine car, but it's a little too refined for my tastes, and gas mileage isn't as good as the other cars. The Lancer Ralliart is very quick -- it feels sort of like a de-tuned Evo -- but Mitsubishi is going through hell right now, and their customer service is horrible. The Civic Si is overpriced for what you get. The Impreza 2.5 RS is a fine car, but the shifter feel isn't that great, the backseat room is pretty slim, and the gas mileage is horrendous for a four-banger.

Summary/Picks (in order):
1. Toyota Corolla XRS
2. Mazda 3 s
3. Scion tC
4. Honda Civic Si
5. Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS
6. Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart

[Shmackey]

Awesome responses so far.

I let the Corolla slip under my radar for two reasons: (1) if it's the one I'm thinking of, it kind of looked like a regular Corolla with a body kit thrown on; and (2) Toyota's "build and price it" feature on their site is all horked, and I couldn't build an XRS (or a Celica GT-S for that matter). But now that you mention it, I should go back and check it out again. Along with the 170 horsies and 6-speed, it's got Toyota reliability, which is a big plus.

The Lancer's mostly out of the equation for the reasons you gave, although I have to admit the numbers look good.

Seriously, great responses. Any others would be most appreciated.

[kman10587]

Yeah, when I drove the Ralliart, I was quite impressed. It felt just like my friend's Evo that I got to take for a drive, just with less power. But this just isn't a good time to be buying from Mitsubishi. The XRS does indeed like a Corolla with a body-kit, but I don't think it's overly flashy or gaudy; I think it actually looks quite nice. And once you drive it and experience that free-revving Celica motor and feel the six-speed, you'll fall in love with it.

[Jimster]

If you live in the sticks get a Subaru- AWD and a punchy motor make it a fantastic car.

If you live in the city, get a Mazda3, better looking than a Civic, while being just as fast and handling just as well.

[Shmackey]

I don't live in the sticks exactly, but get this (I just realized I'm going to make you all jealous): my daily commute is 34 quick miles, mostly through back roads and mountains; I often need to pass in the oncoming lane. The road can be pretty slick in the winter. We get a bunch of snow and it's gone in a couple of days, but those couple of days can make for interesting driving on a snowy mountain road.

So you can see why the Subie would make some sense, although the weather is usually pretty clear.

I just noticed that the Subie loses to the XRS in the horsepower department by 5, but it outclasses it in torque by nearly 40.

I need to go back to the books and remember what that really means...

[NISSANSPDR]

You can get the regular (not the 170HP one) Toyota Matrix...it's AWD I believe...

[Jimster]

Yeah, the 2.5 litre Subaru is bound to make more torque than the 1.8 litre Toyota, I'm no expert in the field of mechanical engineering, but I beleive the longer stroke of the Subaru (The length of the Cylinder) is responsible for making the Subaru that much torquier than the Toyota.

I'm not sure whether a boxer setup is better or worse for torque than a Linear setup, but it could be a factor.



Someone please correct me if I'm wrong .

[NISSANSPDR]

I know the RS has 165HP...the regular Matrix has 140hp...so yes...there's a HP diff...but I was just giving him another AWD option

[Jay!]

I know you're talking about new, But I went from a 2000 Civic Si to a 2000 Impreza 2.5RS, and I couldn't be happier.

If I were you, I'd jump at the chance to drive an Impreza through "back roads and mountains" everyday.

[genjy]

The Corolla has a horrible interior with cheapness all over. My friend and I examined the Corolla and the Scion xB extensively and she ended up buying the xB because the Corolla's interior material and design were just disgusting.

[kman10587]

Oh come on, the Corolla isn't that bad. Maybe it's because I'm only 18, but I actually liked the interior of it; it was simple, clean, and understated.

[LegacyRS]

The 2.5 RS is the choice for you. I know many RS owners, and all have done mild to extreme modifications. Even with mild mods (intake, K&N filter, larger anti roll bars) and you have an unreal car. Plus, if you ever really get into the mods, the Impreza platform is ideal. An EJ257 (North American WRX STi's 300hp 2.5 turbo motor) is an easy swap. Even a turbo upgrade is not a daunting prospect...and the results are spectacular.
I drove a civic during high school from 2000-2002, and no matter how much money I threw into it, it still felt like an appliance. It had no soul, which is important for me in a car. Now that Im building a Legacy with a highly modded EJ25 in it, I couldnt be happier. Subies are unreal! Their preformance, and reliability is great stock, but are potentially a very very potent ride.
I know you want an STi, so build yourself one. One thats better than stock, in a body style thats more attractive. A friend of mine is in the midst of an EJ257 transplant into his 2.5RS. The car is a destroyer of Vettes, Porsches, Vipers. Nothing can keep up. He has upgraded every suspension, chassis, and drivetrain component in anticipation of 300+ HP. This thing is faster, better looking, and handles better than any stock STi. best part is, its unique...especially in North America.
the other cars are all mediocre compared to the RS. They are boring, the Subie is not.

[kman10587]

I've driven both, and the Corolla XRS feels like a much nicer car than the 2.5 RS. The shifter is much smoother, the tranny has an extra gear, and the interior is better. The motor feels much more lively, ready and willing to rev high. The 2.5 RS feels more solid and torquey, ideal for low-speed road racing or snowy conditions. However, it doesn't have quite as much personality or excitement in it as the XRS does. On the more practical side of things, the Impreza's larger motor and AWD system cost it dearly in the gas mileage department, and the boxer engine lay-out is difficult for mechanics to work on. The tranny also takes more stress because the car is AWD, and Subaru's trannies have always been questionable.