2001 GC short in Hazard Circuit

[01caravan]

My problem is similar to that of coyote54 back in 05. I have a 2001 Grand Caravan Sport. Instrument Cluster is dead, Information lights on top of dash are dead, Turn signals and Hazard lamps are not working. Found Hazard Lamp fuse to be blown. Replaced fuse and blows immediately indicating a short. Haynes describes a Turn Signal/Hazard Lamp and Daytime Running Light Module located on the junction block but there is no such animal that I can find. One of the responses to coyote54 described a Hazard relay located within the steering column........again, I do not see anything on the column that resembles a relay. Is there a hazard flasher/relay on the 2001 GC and if so, can someone provide explicit information on what it may look like and explicitly where it is located? Dealers (Service techs and Part techs) in my area are of no help.

[RIP]

According to the schematic I'm looking at your 4th generation (2001-2007) minivan doesn't use a relay. Instead, the Body Control Module better known as the BCM controls the flashing sequence of the hazard lights and turn signals. The BCM also has the lamp drivers for the instrument panel lighting and turn signals. That's as far as I can go. I don't see a "hazard lamp fuse". Can you tell me what number fuse you found blown?

[01caravan]

RIP...your assessment that the Hazard function/Turn signals and Instrument cluster drivers contained within the BCM makes sense..... I was able to print the wiring diagrams from an online service manual yesterday and found that the schematics do not include a hazard relay whatsoever. What was disappointing, however, was that it did not show the hazard switch either. Based on the layout of the IPM from this same source, the fuse location is 24. Fuse 24 appears to provide power to the BCM, Instrument Cluster and Message Center (connects directly to battery according to the online source schematic). All other BCM controlled activities appear to be functioning properly (actually, I'm not sure what other functions exist but, everything else seems to operate correctly...i.e. rear wipers, front wipers, high beams, interior lights, etc.). I have the Instrument Cluster disconnected at this time and fuse 24 still indicates a short circuit. Is it possible the short resides in the BCM Hazard control circuitry with no effect to other circuits within the BCM? Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

[RIP]

Ya, I can see what you're seeing about fuse 24 on a power distribution schematic. The exterior lights schematic does show the hazard switch. It's output just goes straight to the BCM. Goes to ground on the other side.

The BCM apparently gets power from 4 sources. Your fuse 24 then there's fuses 14,19, and 20. In addition to the BCM, fuse 14 powers the radio and overhead console. Fuses 19 and 20 are dedicated to the BCM. That may explain why some BCM functions are still working. You might try pulling fuses 14, 19, and 20 one at a time and see if 24 is still shorted. have you disconnected the message center?

By any chance is one of the fuses labeled IOD. That's the one you pull to reset the BCM.

[01caravan]

Currently I have the Instrument Cluster, Message Center, Hazard switch module (resides with rear wiper control switches) disconnected. All connectors, wiring and interfaces for the Instrument Cluster, Message Center, IPM and switches have been inspected/cleaned/tested to ensure there is no visible damage and that I haven't created any further problems (everything that operates properly sitll operates properly). I learned of the IOD fuse from one of the threads when I stumbled upon this site. I pull it periodically to reset the BCM, however, short circuit remains. This evening, I will check to see if removing fuses 14, 19, 20 have any effect. Any idea if disconnecting the BCM entirely requires Dealer reprogramming? I tried to locate the BCM last night (Haynes version '98-'02) but, the photo and wording on location must be for an earlier model. I am going to check the online source (courtesy of tempfixit) for information on BCM. I appreciate your assistance.

[01caravan]

RIP.........I tested the short ciruit to seet see if it disappeared by removing fuses 14, 19, 20 one at a time as you had suggested. The short remains in all cases. Here is my current dilemma.....I cannot locate the BCM on this vehicle. My thought is that the hazard,Turn signal circuitry of the BCM is shorted out. I have a Haynes manual ('96 - '02) that describes the location of the BCM but, this reference shows a photo and discusses the location for an obviously older model (pre - '00) because there just is not one on my vehicle as this reference describes. I searched Automotive Forums for the location but, to no avail. I went to my local library for a newer version manual but was only able to find a Haynes manual that covers '03 - '06. All of the wiring diagrams in this particular manual show the BCM in the schematics, however, there is no specific wording that I could find in this particular manual that outlines the location of the BCM. I believe the short to now be in the hazard circuitry within the BCM or the wiring from fuse 24 to the BCM. I am skeptical about the wiring being bad just because all other wiring and connectors being in very good condition. Any assistance you can provide is greatly appreciated.

[01caravan]

RIP..........I was finally able to get one of the local service techs to provide some information today.....He states that the 2001 Model Year was a model change and depending on what letter was indicated in the last eight digits of my vin would tell him where the BCM was located. If 'R' is in the last eight, the BCM is integrated into the Front Control Module (FCM). If the letter is something other than 'R', it is located in the left kick panel (driver-side). Will do more troubleshooting this evening. My VIN contains an 'R', so .....this evening I plan to disconnect the FCM to see if it eliminates the short.

[RIP]

Yup. 2001 was the first 4th generation van. I wouldn't bet the farm on them but I found two references (not my usual) saying the BCM is behind the driver's kick panel. I take it it's not on the back of the Junction Block as on gen 3 vans.

The FCM claim is a new one. All my schematics show the BCM as a stand alone unit...somewhere.

[01caravan]

Well.....the result of last nights testing is that when I unplug the FCM (which supposedly has the BCM integrated) my short disappears. What really burns my ass about this whole thing is that there is no good/reliable/detailed published information about this issue. All wiring diagrams, photos, manuals, etc., show a BCM as a separate entity. I called a few local salvage yards this morning to see if anyone had this part but, nothing local. I spoke with a good friend in the salvage business and he recommended www.car-parts.com. Wonderful website for anyone needing a part. I was able to find two salvage yards within 120 miles of my home that have the part. Price will be $50-$75. I will still need to have the dealer program the VIN and mileage (another $60). There is a source out there that claims they can provide the part already programmed (once you supply the VIN and mileage) for a cost of $225 plus shipping. I prefer to physically view the part, compare part numbers and speak with someone face to face......old-school, I suppose. I will let you know the outcome as I proceed. RIP.....I really appreciate the assistance you provided. Always good to have someone to bounce around ideas.

[01caravan]

Well, I purchased an FCM from a salvage yard for the sum of $50 and much to my dismay, the short still exists. At this point I am going to remove the IPM (fuse/relay panel) the the FCM mounts to and check every relay and wiring connection if possible. This seems to be my last resort. Any other information that you may have would be greatly appreciated.

[01caravan]

Problem has been resolved - FINALLY! With the original FCM installed onto the IPM (Fuse & Relay Block), I had a short present at fuse location 24. This condition caused my Instrument Cluster, Message Center, Hazard Lamps and Turn Signals to be non operational. After an exhaustive researching of information, physical searching of a visual problem on the vehicle itself, much appreciated assistance from RIP (Automotive Forums), I decided the FCM was causing the short. By the way, although all manuals show a BCM (Body Control Module) as a separate entity.......this is not the case if your VIN has an R in the last eight digits of the VIN. "R" means that the BCM is built into the FCM which is mounted directly to the IPM (Integrated Power Module). With the FCM removed, my short was no longer present. I place the newly purchased FCM ($50 Salvage) onto the IPM and the short is present once again with all the same symptoms as before. In my previous thread, I mentioned that I was going to check every relay and fuse to make sure all were operating correctly and making good contacts. This was done, everything checked out appropriately. The IPM was my last resort. I purchased an IPM (from a local salvage yard for $75.....they through in the FCM that was attached for free) and I installed last night. The installation took all of 15 minutes. I start the vehicle once the installation was completed and low and behold everything works perfectly. Apparently there was a short somewhhere on the printed circuit board of the IPM. I hope this information will help others out there that may encounter this problem or one similar. RIP, I really appreciate your input and I would like to say that this forum played a huge role in assisting me in resolving this issue. Special thanks to tempfixit for the online service manual link.

[Airjer_]

01, the thing that really impressed me about the way you went about things is your ability to gather information, process it, and then make a resonable decision on the cause of your problem. It was really refreshing to see this. To often you read the famous my car does this whats wrong! It was really nice to see some one do some homework!!

Nice job on fixing this one!!!

[ctshop]

I know this is a really old thread. But it has very valuable information as I've been tracking down this same issue today. But I found on this 2001 Caravan that found it's way to my shop for the same symptoms.
The orange fusible link to the + battery post had a bad connection due to corrosion.
Took it apart and cleaned the contacts.
Gauge clusters and turn signals now work properly.

Just thought I'd register and throw in how I made a customers problem go away easily.

[sergio1]

Yep this thread is old, but by golly, is it ever usefull. I ran into the problem over 3 months ago when I was driving and used the left turn-signal to do a lane change. The IPC gauges went ballistic: In a second, they went from their position to MAX, the display and milleage area ALL lighted up and the next second, I saw the whole cluster die. Because I was driving, I tought that the vehicle had stalled but to my surprise, when I touched back the gas pedal, it was still running. So I went and did my things for the day without an instument panel to guide me (no speedometer, tachometer, fuel and temperature gauge).
I decided a couple days later to troubleshoot the issue. Talked about it to friends with caravans. One of my friend, owner of an 06 caravan, told me his horror story of his dead IPC and having a shop fixing the PCB because there was a component that had fried. Cost him 200$! I started by checking the fuses. All ok. Decided to go for the IPC so dismanteled the dash and under a magnifying glass, I inspected the PBC of the IPC. Didn't notice anything unusual. Checked the vehicle and noticed that other components were not operating: IPC lighting, key sense circuit, hazard circuit, message center, etc. Got on the Internet, fetched the Chrysler service manual for the vehicle. Studied the wiring diagram for a while and ended up servicing what was called in there as the Fused B(+) circuit. Looked for the BCM everywhere. After doing this part time for close to a week, I got fed up because I was unable to locate the damn BCM. I decided to park the problem and push the troubleshooting aside. My brother in-law bought me an OBD-II onboard computer. I ended up using it for the next months instead of the car's instrument panel. It was great. He had gotten it on special at Princess Auto. It is the Autel MaxiTrip TP100. He knew I wanted an OBD-II capable device anyway for some time so it was not badly spent money.
Yesterday, I decided to get back on it before next weeks' coming vacation. After all, a dead panel makes a night drive pretty sneaky. I found this tread started by 01caravan. Here I learned that VIN "R" 2001 caravan don't have a BCM. That was a blessing because the service manual was NOT clear at all on this issue. I went thru his whole adventure and when he pinpointed the IPM, I said to myself:"Why didn't I inspect that damn part right after my IPC dismantling!" I finished reading all there was to it and after cross referencing some information with the service manual, I was ready this morning to tackle the problem.
Sure enough, when I removed the battery and flipped the IPM over, There it was: the brown-red wire (#9 described as the HAZARD power feed) coming out of connector C4 of the IPM was rusted and hanging by the insulator. I cleaned it, resoldered it and pushed it back in place. Re-installed the module and hooked back the battery.
Voilà! Everything now working.

Just wanted to say that old posts should NEVER be deleted; their usefulness is undeniable. I registered just to post this message.

Kudos again to you, Mr. 01caravan.

Thanks to every one else: RIP, Airjer_ and ctshop. I'm now a happy camper!

[01Dodge]

Great post, lead me right to the problem of corrosion at the Hazard circuit.