Mirage or Civic?

[TatII]

during 90 and 99 the lancer is called the mirage in the united states. there was a mirage hatch back but that was back in the late 80's. before 98 most americans have never heard of a mitsubishi lancer. they were called mirages in the states. so the planet taht i'm from is called the U.S. of A. here is a link to a pic of a 4 door mirage. now imagine it wtih the evo body work. cause i've seen it and it looks just like a evo 4.

here is how it looks with the evo 4 body kit. on a 97 mirage
http://files.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images.php

here is what it looks like stock from behind
http://www.allmitsubishi.com/mirage97-99.jpg

and another shot of the 4 door from behind
http://www.mitsubishi-parts-wholesal...ges/mirage.jpg

heres what it looks like from the front.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images...1990104MED.jpg

heres another shot from the front
http://images.stoneage.com/auto/cars...AD748B225C.jpg

and a very clear shot of hte front
http://www.grandimpressions.com/web/...e_1_medium.jpg

as you can see the mirage here in the states is the lancer every where else in the world. so its basically a evo 4 without the aggressive body work.

[Thepeug]

The very first link (the most important one for comparison) doesn't work.

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by TatII

during 90 and 99 the lancer is called the mirage in the united states. there was a mirage hatch back but that was back in the late 80's. before 98 most americans have never heard of a mitsubishi lancer. they were called mirages in the states. so the planet taht i'm from is called the U.S. of A. here is a link to a pic of a 4 door mirage. now imagine it wtih the evo body work. cause i've seen it and it looks just like a evo 4.

here is how it looks with the evo 4 body kit. on a 97 mirage
http://files.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images.php

here is what it looks like stock from behind
http://www.allmitsubishi.com/mirage97-99.jpg

and another shot of the 4 door from behind
http://www.mitsubishi-parts-wholesal...ges/mirage.jpg

heres what it looks like from the front.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images...1990104MED.jpg

heres another shot from the front
http://images.stoneage.com/auto/cars...AD748B225C.jpg

and a very clear shot of hte front
http://www.grandimpressions.com/web/...e_1_medium.jpg

as you can see the mirage here in the states is the lancer every where else in the world. so its basically a evo 4 without the aggressive body work.

But the Mirage in the States is irrelevant.


The guy lives in Australia, where the "Mirage" is the Lancer and the Mirage is a 3 door hatch back, an ugly one at that. I see little sense in buying a 1.3 Mirage, seeing as a good majority are 1.3 carbs and there are most certainly little or no Cyborg Mirages, if you want an economical ride, get the Mirage- but there is little other sense in getting one.

The Civic on the other hand, is an excellent entry level car- you have an excellent choive of engines- and you are lucky enough to start on the D15B3 (Which is an awful 1.5 dual-carb- but still better than a Mirage) although the EG hatch for a short timehad the Breeze trim-level, with a 1.3 Single carb- avoid that ridiculous thing at all costs.
You can also, if you look hard get an injected 1.6 litre engine (I THINK the code is D16 something, not sure though) and the range topping VTi, with an SOHC 1.6 VTEC- but that'd be out of your price range. Remember- if you do get sick of the stock engine, there is a legion of choice for aftermarket engines as well ()

As well as that- only Euro-makers like ALfa Romeo, Peugeot and Citroen, can do an FWD Chassis as satisfying to drive as a Honda Civic- the EF-EK models are my favourites in the way of driving, they're better than the Mirage AND Lancer for sure.

[Ssom]

Just one quick point Mr Moppie- the Honda Civic, was indeed NOT the first mass-produced Hatchback, the Renault 16 beat it to that honour by about 7 years

[Moppie]

The first link to pics of a Renault 16 I found: http://home.swipnet.se/~w-55301/thom...or/rena16.html

Not exactly what I would call a modern hatchback shape

[Ssom]

errrrrrr...........Not quite- I never said anything about it setting the trend for hatchback design- the Honda Civic clearly is the car jointly-responsible for every car looking the same these days- but you can't deny the facts- regardless of shape- it's a hatchback- and it beat the Civic to the trend by 7 years. So you cannot claim that the Civic was the first mass-produced hatchback- a style-setter it was, though.

Applying your fuzzy logic, the Renault MeganeII isn't a hatch- because very few hatchbacks have an ass that protrudes further than the rear window.

[Thepeug]

Becuase it's ass protrudes further than the rear window AND it has five doors, it looks more like a wagon, IMO.

[Ssom]

Most hatchbacks are 5 doors- Renault in Europe market a Megane Station Wagon- so the Hatch can't really be classified a Wagon. Besides I see them on a semi-regular basis- I actually think they look quite good- not as good as the Focus or Fiat Stilo- or even the Peugeot 307- BUT at least it is different- unlike the Civic/Corolla/everything else clones........

BUT We're off topic when we bring up the new Megane Even though I bought it up

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by Moss1O6GTi

Most hatchbacks are 5 doors-

Take a count of the number of 3 and 5 dr cars you see next time you go for a drive, then allow for the fact that 5dr's sell better in NZ than they do in Japan, and as a percentage of the total made more have been imported and tell me honestly if you really think there are more 5dr hatchs than 3drs?
(also consider the number of differnt cars that only came in a 3dr, including the pug 106 )


Oh, and if you want the first mass produced Hatch back have a look at this: http://www.team.net/www/ktud/Tatra_history_auto3.html the 1934 Tarta although rear engined, also had an opening back hatch to access luguage space, and by the 30s standards was assembled on a mass production assembly line, and later variations sold over 3,000 units.

[Ssom]

Woah! I now have a new life goal- to get my hands on a Tatra T87!!!! Those things look seriously damned cool! I can see where the inspiration for the Corvette Stingray of the 60's came from! But yeah, I'd still credit Renault with bringing it to the masses- especially since the T87- like most Tatras (except for the one with the crazy headlights that I can't remember the model name of) is somewhat forgotten, either way they beat Honda to it- which was my underlying point.......Somewhat.....


The 106's AREN'T exclusively 3 doors- in fact if you took a look around your local road (When you eventually DO see one) you will find that a majority of 106's in NZ are 5 doors- even the 1st Generation XSi is- the Gen 2 GTi (The greatest car ever ) is exclusively 3 door- like it's sister car the Citroen Saxo VTR and VTS (while the SX models were 5 door) hell I even looked at a 5 door 106 before buying the Civic- but decided it was too dinky and small to fit me and 4 mates in. If you need further proof watch ROnin- see that silver car getting rear-ended by the truck in the Paris chase scene- guess what that is

But on another account- I'm going to agree that a majority of used Imports are 3 doors- like the Toyota Corsa, EF-EK Civic, N14 and N15 Pulsar etc......But I still see more 5 hatches- due to NZ NEw cars having a majority-rules type thing going in my area (I very rarely leave it, because the rest of Auckland is a crap hole) but it's just danwed on me that I can't think of any 5 door Used Imports off the top of my head- so I guess I'll give you that one....

But in terms of what's still being made today- the VW Lupo, Pug 107/Citroen C2, BMW Compact, Renault Twingo (Still made in Uruguay, if not France), MINI and Beetle are the only 3 door exculsive hatches I can think of.....

I actually quite like 3 door cars, but I prefer Coupes even more..........the only reason I bought my Civic in Sedan form was that I needed the space








ANYWAY just an after thought on the thread topic- I drive a Honda Civic- it is an LX trim level- it's a dual-carb D15B3, it was aimed at budget buyers- it sat below the LXi and EXi (which are injected 1.6's) as a sedan and the GTi (Which I think was a non-VTEC DOHC 1.6) as a hatchback, the car is a pleasure to drive- it is a VERY well designed FWD Chassis- hell it's a poor mans Alfa Romeo without all the crazy electrical/rust faults and dumbed-down styling, however if you want something with guts- stay away from anything with Carbs, the Injected models are good, they are certainly more responsive than my car- it certainly lacks the balls that came with my torquier (but no longer with us) VW Jetta 1.8. But as a fine-handling, reliable and economical proposition- you simply cannot go wrong with a Civic, just don't make the same mistake as me- save up for an injected model.......

I have never driven a Mirage Hatch, the closest I have got is a blast in my mates Lancer MX Sedan- it was a nice car- but didn't drive nearly as nicely as my Honda does- the Mirage however- from what I know about it- isn't a nice car- with basement bargain engines and poverty spec-levels- but it's still economical and reliable right?

[Thepeug]

Originally Posted by Moss1O6GTi

But in terms of what's still being made today- the VW Lupo, Pug 107/Citroen C2, BMW Compact, Renault Twingo (Still made in Uruguay, if not France), MINI and Beetle are the only 3 door exculsive hatches I can think of.....

What about the new Civic Si?

[Jimster]

Civic's (7th Generation) come in 5 door form as well- they are amazing cars- use a flat-floor design- EXTREMELY Spacious

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by Jimster

Civic's (7th Generation) come in 5 door form as well- they are amazing cars-

Its actualy one of those "it depends where in the world you live" problems.

Here in NZ there is no 3dr civic, only the 5 and 4dr, the 3dr model was replaced by the HRV, which sells like shit on a stick.

However I believe in the US they only get the 3 and 4dr cars, while Japan, and Im sure most of Europe get all 3 models, but no HRV.
The Civic of course is not the only car to be sold in such variety.

[Jimster]

The HRV was taken off the shelf before I left NZ!!! Consider it the Suzuki X90's replacement I think they might still sell it over here, but when I was looking at Accords, there was certainly no HRV's in the dealer- we get the 3 door, 5 door and Coupe only- no Sedan- with 5 doors JUST edging out 3 doors in terms of how many I see......Which isn't many.....Japanese cars sell in HRV-like numbers in this place.....