Please don't turn this into a brand-specific-love-fest!

[dingmyride]

G'day all,

As this is a new(ish) area, I think it's important that the moderator(s) ensure a few basics are maintained.

In this short space of time I have seen the praises of Sherline sung very highly, which I am sure is justified, as well as some negativity todwards other makes, however, please keep this area 'open' for all owners and prospective owners of all machine types / brands, regardless of budget / costs.

Yes, the Chinese lathes / mills require a bit of work to get good repeatable results, however I think it is very important that anyone using a machine tool is familiar with it, and nothing teaches you better than having to disassemble, clean and reassemble components, as well as making adjustments. You need to remember that no machine tool is 'set and forget', adjustment is constantly required as surfaces 'bed in', and from the inevitable vibrations that you will get from time to time. The knowledge I have gained from doing this with my 'cheap' Chinese lathe has been invaluable. I achieve a difference of less than .01 mm over a run of 80 identical parts!

Being brand specific may also give a false impression to new comers that unless they have the $$$ to get the top end gear, the rest isn't worth buying.

Maybe when putting a section together on which machine to buy, price brackets should be used as a guide (say, best machine under $500 etc). Of course we would all love to run out and start 'cheque book machining', but not all of us, especially younger members, have the financial means to afford the top end gear, or may not even be sure if machining is 'our thing' in which case a big investment could just be a waste - not to mention hard to explain to the better half if it spends more time gathering dust than making chips!! And some of us just don't want to spend big dollars (keeping in mind 'big dollars' is a relative term) on a hobby (yes, I know you can get a high quality lathe for less than $1000, but remember how long it takes an apprentice to get that sort of money!).

So this thread isn't aimed to say this sort of stuff has happened, not pointing fingers, just a prior acknowledgement that if let go, it could become a very closed book very quickly - I'm sure we've all seen this happen on different forums before.

I encourage everyone, no matter what your machine, even the old home-made hand me downs from grandpa's shed, get involved in this very rewarding hobby, and have your say on this forum.

Oh yeah, another thing I've learned, use the lathe / mill to fix the occasional thing around the house for the better half and she'll be happy!

Have fun and machine on brothers!

[freakray]

I think you're confusing the fact that Sherline is the most commonly owned brand posted on here with "Sherline is the only brand to own".

While you bring a very valid point, I don't think anyone has pressed an agenda so far.
In fact, unless a person has worked on more than one model/brand, how could they make a judgement call on which is the best machine manufacturer.

[dingmyride]

Hi Freakray,

Nope, not confused at all...there will always be more of a particular machine on any given forum, and of course people will be (for the most part), passionate about their own equipment, I recall reading another thread on AF where it got quite harsh in relation to various machines, and their origins, just saying that this tone needs to be moderated.

No one has pressed an obvious agenda, I agree, and of course if one person only uses one brand / model of machine the majority of the time, they are not really in a position to give an adverse opinion of another, but the problem is some people will just 'roll' with the general concensus. Statements like, 'Chinese lathes are crap' whether said directly or implied is very negative, especially to someone who has saved for a period of time and took the plunge to spend the money available to them on this machine.

Like I said, I'm not pointing fingers, just more of a 'rules of the game / heads up' type of post.

This forum has the potential to be a great asset and very informative, and the Moderators are in a very good position to be able to 'set the mood' from an early stage. I personally look forward to checking it out for a good while.

[MPWR]

Hi Ding- and welcome!

You're point is well taken. There certainly is already alot of enthusiasm for Sherline gear here. But you're absolutely right that it would be very unfortunate if the impression is given (either now or in the future) that this forum is somehow an exclusive 'Sherline club', or that the requirement for participation is owning Sherline tools. At present (judging by the introductions thread), there are at least as many owners owners of non-Sherline equipment. Hopefully they will feel every bit as welcome as the Sherline people.

You're correct that this is a new area. The community and content here is very much being built now, as we type. As such we all have the opportunity now to built and influence it. It appears that Sherline tools will have several enthusiastic advocates here (especially as Mike and I both run Sherline gear), and that is certainly a good thing. But it will be even better if members with experience with other tools share their experience and enthusiasm here as well. We can all really only talk about machines we've each used- I'm hoping members with different machines will participate here just as actively.

You seem both to have equipment and experience. If you see things here that you can add to, question, comment on, or participate in, please do!

And thanks for your comments.

[Murray Kish]

I think it's fair comments, and fwiw, I'm mostly interested in machining itself. Although I'm new to it, I assume the methods/techniques are the same regardless of the brand you use.

Ding, I'm looking forward to your advice and guidance on machining in general, as I figure this new world out.... It sounds like you've got some experience that we all can learn from.

By-the-way.... my decision to purchase Sherline had more to do with my frustrations with Micromark than anything....I'm obviously happy with my decision, but it really was Micromark that 'lost' my business, not neccessarily Sherline that 'won' it...

Murray

[dingmyride]

G'day again,

Seems we are on our way!

I think to do this right there will need to be a few sub-sections to this forum, one for how-to's with regards to making actual parts (tutorials), and another that discusses the machines and their use themselves.

The one for the actual making of parts is pretty obvious in what it would include (tutorials on how to make a brake rotor, gear knob, shock absorbers, exhausts / mufflers etc - I know mikemechanic has already run off a few sets of mufflers, maybe he could write a how-to?), whereas as a decision needs to be made on how involved the machining sub forum would be. Yes I know this is getting pretty involed, but you know at some stage speople are going to ask questions like, do I need cutting fluid, what is the best to use, one has already appeared about the best tool bits to use.

I think it would be of benefit to start of with a basics of use section (the do's and dont's of a machine tool - milling machine and lathe), then more specific discussion on machines and how to machine various metals, speeds and feeds information, cutting fluid, how to drill small holes without breaking the bit, technical type questions for those that just want to know. Also an area for machine hints and tips (this could even be brand specific) could be beneficial, however there is already a large amount of information on the web for this. I also think a links page would be of enormous value. I know it is not really the done thing to include links to another site from a forum, however in this case if the links were moderated it would certainly save starting a lot of unneccessary threads / posts..(I see one of my references to a particular mini lathe site has already been removed from this very thread - shame, it is probably the best resource of information for small machine tools the web has to offer!).

There are far more experienced machinists out there than me, I'm more of a 'if it works do it' kinda guy, but I am happy to offer any assistance to anyone if I can help.

I mostly use my lathe for production work, I converted it to CNC, so it is actually more of a pain to make one part than it is to do 10! I'm sure I have done mods to my lathe that the designers of the thing would shake their heads at but it works for me.

A few little tips I've learned along the way...

I almost exclusively use indexable carbide replaceable tips in my cutters, with the exception of HSS tools which I will grind for a specific purpose if required. Yes, they can cost a bit more to start with, but you get very long life out of a cutter, and you can rotate the tip (3 times) as one cutting point starts to dull, again though I use for production work so the cost is justified for me.

When parting off the trick is a slow speed and a faster feed of the parting blade. The sound should resemble that of frying bacon! When I am parting off anything over about an inch diameter (25mm), I will use a cutting fluid. It is also important to ensure the cutting / parting blade is ground correctly or it will stall the lathe.

To those who are using the parting blade that comes with a standard set of carbide brazed tools (for memory it is about 3mm wide!), if the finance allow, I highly recommend buying a proper parting blade (around 2mm wide), and the correct holder, this will put a lot less stress on your machine and reduce chatter due to less surface area contact, and save wasteage of the material. You will be amazed at the difference 1mm can make.

I have used a number of things for cutting fluid (even actual cutting fluid!!), but in true backyard workshop style, I get very good results from automatic transmission fluid!

I always use cutting fluid when drilling a hole (it prevents the 'scarring' inside the hole from the drill bit).

When drilling a blind hole (very deep), I advance the drill bit around 2.5 to 3 times the diameter of the drill bit, then bring it back out to remove the chips, douse it in fluid and go in again, this prevents a lot of bit breakages, keeps the bits sharper for longer, and prevents the actual chips themselves accumulating on the bit and scoring the hole even larger.

There is no real simple way to polish an alloy part if you want good results (ie: no machining marks). The process is similar to what you do on a model car body. My steps for aluminium are:

Sand with 1000 grit, then 1500 grit, then 2000 grit paper (I cut it up into squares about twice the size of a postage stamp), however, I use the paper 'wet' (have it sitting in a container of transmission fluid), once done, thoroughly clean and wash the part under water as the fluid will make the piece develop an almost waxy / greasy-like coating, once done, put back in the lathe and finish off with Autosol on a cotton cloth. You will get an awesome shine.

Sorry for the long post.

I hope this helps a few. Happy to provide other info where I can.

Moderators feel free to move any of this info where you guys see fit.

Have fun.

[gulfclk]

Well, I agree on the point that this can't be a part of the forum where we will 'sell' or 'make-or-brake' brands, but ...

Let me tell you this story. I was looking for a miniature lathe beginning of this year. Having a 200cm version at my fathers place, I learned myself how to use it and how to break ik (more important than anything else) but I could not make very small parts. So ... going to the 'Spielware Messe' in Dortmond, I discovered another brand which made very small lathes. After a poor explanation from the stand holders and sales people, I was surfing the net for weeks and weeks and decided to buy a lathe from the German brand. But ...After 2 days, I discoved it had a compound slide but no settings to turn conical parts. Damned!
I was able to cancel it (lukely) and started searching again. I have been searching this forum about 10 times but no luck, untill I discoverd Sherline.
Man, they just offered what I was dreaming of for a very reasonable price.

So ... here's my point:

- I'm not selling Sherline and I'm not saying they are the only good lathes and mills out there, but ... I simply did not know them.
- When talking about lathes (and certainly about mills), you cannot talk about price categories because first of all, buying the machine is one thing, but you almost double the price because of the accessories. Don't forget that some brands are a bit more expensive but include some parts as well
- I'm sure that budget is an issue (isn't it for all of us), but for some people, there are different issues. Personally, I want to spent a couple of Euro's more on a machine if I have of the shelf precision and quality. Spending time on fine tuning my machines is time I cannot use them to make model parts and to enjoy.

So, once again, I fully agree that this should be a non-brand depandent discussion, but ... I think it's more important to inform people about what they get! I'm happy I bought my Sherline setup, even if it doubled the investment. Not because it's easy to get (man, my lathe had to go from the States to Sweden to Belgium), but because of the quality and precision straight from the box!

I'd say, we make the link between prices and quality and possibilities and start from there!

[mikemechanic]

After reading the thread and checking out the machining forum I can understand the thoughts here. We all have something in common in that we have or want a machining set-up. It seems we all have lathe of some sort that fits our budgets. My wife knew I wanted a lathe and we had looked at the Taig here as it is available in town for us to view. She surprised me with it for my birthday and for under $500 Cdn I think it really is a great deal for a beginner. I would have never bought a Sherline only because I would have never had enough money for it, with two kids and a mortgage, hobby money is not readily available.

I think that from what I read in ding's post is that the two moderators of this forum both have Sherline set-ups. I think that the thoughts in this thread are that we should not scare anybody off or push someone to buy a specific brand. From what I've seen from some of the work from members of this forum that it's not really the equipment or brand but how you spend the time setting it up, etc. Also a little ingenuity goes a long way. So I guess if a newbie to machining reads the threads here I hope that he/she realizes that even a cheap (price) lathe can do just a good a job as an expensive set-up.

Mike

[freakray]

So since everyone is willing to provide an answer - I've not seen much mention of Taig here - any opinions since we're discussing brands?

[mikemechanic]

Originally Posted by freakray

So since everyone is willing to provide an answer - I've not seen much mention of Taig here - any opinions since we're discussing brands?

Well since you asked. I am extremely new to the machining world and this is my first lathe so my thoughts are a bit biased. The Taig lathe is a great starting point, very sturdy piece of equipment. It requires a little adjustment to seat the bed and take up the backlash but once that is done it seems to have great precision. I have noticed a few limitations with it's size. The swing over bed is 4.5" and swing over the crossslide is 2.375" so you are a little limited that way, but I am doing mostly 1/12 and 1/24 scale stuff so it's fine for my needs. There are many accesories available for it, I have the compound cross slide for doing tapers, the milling attachment and vice (although I am still learning how to use it) and a 3 and a 4 jaw chuck for it. Here is a great link (hopefully this is ok to put here) http://www.cartertools.com/ Gives you an idea of what is out there and what can be done with this relatively cheap little machine.

Mike

[freakray]

Thanks Mike

[dingmyride]

Hi Mike,

Show us ya tips!

Exhaust tips that is....

Thanks for the rundown on the Taig, very interesting. Would love to see some examples done with the milling attachment as well....

There are plenty of great machines out there, and even an relatively inexpensive one can turn out high quality parts. May just need a bit more adjustment than others but at the end of the day, we are making model car parts here, not pieces for NASA!

I would also like to clarify a point that seems to get made (misleadingly) from time to time as well. It has been said a few times now that the Chinese lathes will require a partial or complete disassembly and rebuild.... to a newcommer, 'rebuild' would imply that a large amount of work is required, and that other pieces or serious modification is needed to get a usable product. Maybe it's best described as needing partial disassembly, a good clean-up, adjustment and re-assembly.

gulfclk,

Thanks for the input, very valid points.

"I'd say, we make the link between prices and quality and possibilities and start from there!"

Glad you had a good experience, and of course if you have a good experience with a supplier it's good to let people know.

I'd be hesitant to make any judgement calls about lathe possibilities though, as plenty of awesome stuff gets made on all manner of machines, I think this really comes back to the operator to a large extent.

[gulfclk]

Originally Posted by dingmyride

... I'd be hesitant to make any judgement calls about lathe possibilities though, as plenty of awesome stuff gets made on all manner of machines, I think this really comes back to the operator to a large extent...

Let's put it this way ...

I've seen poor work done on great machines and great work done on poor machines! (Means ... yes, you're right!)