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Old 07-15-2005, 11:01 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscletang
I'll agree that it's to early to tell with both but I'll say this. I think the Skyline will probably outhandle the Cobra but straight line it'll be a dog fight. I hear the 1/4 mile will be pretty low. Also, remember how easy '03 Cobras were to get horsepower? Now, think of that same potential with the GT-40s engine. I personally think the Cobra will have a much better response in the aftermarket.
umm...i doubt that the GTR will be any harder to mod if they use the most talked about engine rght now, a totally redesigned VQ32DETT. we all know that turbocharged, in general, are alot easier to source power out of than Naturally Aspirated. and we all know that when building turboed cars the manufacturer usually builds them alot stronger than need be. every turbocharged engine nissan has assembled can make incredibly big power numbers with little modification.

-SR20DET can handle 400whp+ on stock internals
-RB series can handle anywhere from 450-600whp on stock internals ranging from the RB20 to the 26.
-VG30DETT can handle 500whp on stock internals
-etc

i doubt the Cobra will have a much better response to aftermarket upgrades if nissan uses this particular engine. i would say they would be on par with each other when it comes to aftermarket response. but i doubt many people will be modifying either car as the price is rather high on either car for the tuner crowd.
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Old 07-15-2005, 11:19 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by kman10587
I'm sorry k3, and you're right, comparing the two cars at this point is completely pointless. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the new Corvette Z06 is among the greatest performance values of all time, and if anyone were to beat its bang for buck, especially a car made by a Japanese company, I'd be extremely surprised. The Infiniti GT-R may indeed run with the Corvette Z06, but if it does, I'd expect it to cost about a hundred grand. Not because Nissan is less experienced at building fast cars than Chevy, but simply because the Japanese put more time and money into finely engineering their cars, so their performance comes at a higher price.
i agree....but it can be done. but if you look at it in another way its a whole different ball game.

you usually get alot better value when you buy a Japanese car. the vettes performance shouldnt be that hard to match with the GTR's rumored engine output. i bet it will be able to be on par if not beat the vette in handling...i think it would be the 1/4 mile that the GTR would be a little slower in.

a well refined AWD system will allow the GTR to have so much more grip...

i think someone just stated that the R33 was the a car among many other higher end cars that would run that particular course in under 8 seconds which was better than laborghinis and such, with the benefit of better tires. the new GTR will without a doubt do everything phenominally better than the R33. just a thought...

i personally dont see any problem with the GTR keeping pace with the Z06 if not beating it in handling with the benefit of a good AWD system working on its side.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:04 AM   #33
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Big question for all you GT-R fans, since the upcoming car will be under the Infiniti name in the US, will they try and keep at the level of sportiness of the previous Nissan Skyline GT-Rs, or will they try to make it a sports coupe with a luxury component much like the BMW M3?

I ask this because cars like the GT500 and the Z06 Vettes are pure sports cars, with few luxuries, making them very different cars from a luxury/sports coupe. A more luxury focused GT-R might not be the same kind of car that the R32, R33, and R34 were. Just a thought.

A heavier, more luxurious GT-R would not be very good competition for the lighter and stronger Z06 Vette.

I was also wondering just how the GT-Rs AWD system affects the car's reliability. I recall reading about how terrible the previous generation skyline GT-Rs were in reliability, although I may be mistaken.

O, and I'd still take a 997 over the Skyline. A smooth N/A RWD car just appeals to me more then a Turbo AWD car. Its not an ignorant comment, its just my personal preference.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:29 AM   #34
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2
Big question for all you GT-R fans, since the upcoming car will be under the Infiniti name in the US, will they try and keep at the level of sportiness of the previous Nissan Skyline GT-Rs, or will they try to make it a sports coupe with a luxury component much like the BMW M3?
im not a GTR fan but i will give my response anyways...

well thats our problem...we dont know. nobody knows for sure...i cant imagine the interior would be any less luxurious than a 350Z or G35 in that aspect. but i cant imagine it beings a full out luxurious interior. Nissan/Infiniti is also doing many things to keep the weight of the car similar to that of the current 350Z but with ALOT more power. the basic reason why nissan/infiniti decided to introduce the new GTR (it will not carry the skyline name any longer) as an Infiniti is because the simple fact that it is going to be much harder for the Biased American Economy to pay good money for a Nissan. most of the population has no idea that Nissan is directly related with Infiniti. just ignorance i suppose...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2
I ask this because cars like the GT500 and the Z06 Vettes are pure sports cars, with few luxuries, making them very different cars from a luxury/sports coupe. A more luxury focused GT-R might not be the same kind of car that the R32, R33, and R34 were. Just a thought.
i think if it carries the name (GTR) of the flagship of Nissan Racing ...im sure it will perform like a pure sports car no matter what it is. and the GT500 is far from a pure sports car...more of Ford going back to the roots of a pure muscle car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2
A heavier, more luxurious GT-R would not be very good competition for the lighter and stronger Z06 Vette.
i think that would be an under-statement. once again we have no idea about the weight of the GTR, but im sure it will be far from a luxury car but i bet it will have a very classy, BMW M-series like interior but it guarantee it will not ride like a 745Li.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2
I was also wondering just how the GT-Rs AWD system affects the car's reliability. I recall reading about how terrible the previous generation skyline GT-Rs were in reliability, although I may be mistaken.
this would be irrelevant though i have never heard anything about this. reguardless, nissan/infiniti is using a totally new electronic AWD system. it will be a RWD car with Electic motors that will power the front wheels through a very well calculated and advanced computer sytem that will monitor turning angles, slippage, accelerator level, etc. it will be the most technological advanced system on the market. it is currently going through several stages of testing on the Nissan Cube and other cars being offered to Japan to work out all the bugs and gliches before the GTR hits assembly lines...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2
O, and I'd still take a 997 over the Skyline. A smooth N/A RWD car just appeals to me more then a Turbo AWD car. Its not an ignorant comment, its just my personal preference.
i still dont know how you could say that and you know absolutely nothing about the car...its your opinion but it is obviously quite questionable and biased. how do you knows its going to be turboed???
if i were to have the money or will to buy either of these cars...i would atleast wait until we know something about the GTR to choose which one would be my choice. but then again...im the type of person who feels that if Kia makes a better car than Ferrari, i would take the Kia because it is a better car rather than just buying the ferrari because of its heritage or name. i buy cars based on the car itself...not the name.
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Old 07-16-2005, 02:45 AM   #35
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Total perforamnce wise, I hope the newest incarnation of the Skyline beats the GT 500. For thirty thousand more on the bottom line, it should. If the new Cobra takes to modification as well as the 03+ snakes do, then don't even try to line up and rev... Game over...
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Old 07-16-2005, 03:28 AM   #36
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

I was also wondering just how the GT-Rs AWD system affects the car's reliability. I recall reading about how terrible the previous generation skyline GT-Rs were in reliability, although I may be mistaken.
i have no idea where you heard that rumor because its totally false. the tranny on the GT-R along with stock clutch is unbreakable. stock tranny GT-Rs have lasted with over 700whp. the stock clutch could handle repeated 8000rpm clutch drops without going up in smoke. the tranny can take extreme shock, and the engine is almost as bulletproof as the supra TT engine. the only trannys that had problems is the later model R33's which has a weak third gear. and they didn't start finding this problems 8 years later. and the only cars that exhibits this problem is the monster hp GT-R's. the R32 and the R34 trannys were all unbreakable.

in fact i can even bet money that the GTR tranny can handle waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more stress then your precious BMW or porsche tranny's can.

i do admit i'm questioning how the car would be once they added all the luxury crap to it since its going to be labeled as an infiniti. but only time will tell. its honestly too early to compare. but please don't spread false info about the previous GTR's toughness. this car is extremely over engineered and is basically a detuned 500hp car from the factory.

and to brodie50, if this new GTR is anything like the older ones, i'm sure it will take mods as well as a cobra. RazorGTR ( a moderator here ) has a R32 with only a intake, homemade boost controller, full exhuast and hes running 12.0 flat and trapping almost 120mph. his third gear takes him to 120mph.
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Old 07-16-2005, 06:28 AM   #37
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Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by TatII
in fact i can even bet money that the GTR tranny can handle waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more stress then your precious BMW or porsche tranny's can.

I'd hope so too, because my precious BMW's are far easier to fix than GTR's.
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Old 07-16-2005, 08:13 AM   #38
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Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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I'd hope so too, because my precious BMW's are far easier to fix than GTR's.
Tell that to the lady next to the street when their 318i is poping out smoke due to heavy traffic jam. and for the next month or so she have to take the public transportation.

On the other hand, Nissan car even the JDM never get stuck, and even if they went into the service centre, that evening the owner can take his lovely car home.

(by the way this is very normal in Thailand to see BMW, Mercedes and other European car over heat simply because the were build with the highist standar and they never brake )
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Old 07-16-2005, 09:14 AM   #39
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Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2
Big question for all you GT-R fans, since the upcoming car will be under the Infiniti name in the US, will they try and keep at the level of sportiness of the previous Nissan Skyline GT-Rs, or will they try to make it a sports coupe with a luxury component much like the BMW M3?
According to Hiroshi Tamura, the product planner for the R34 GT-R and the upcoming model, the new car will be a huge improvement. In an interview with car, he talked about Porsche's step from the 993 to the 996 and Ferrari's jump from the 355 to the 360, and said 'we must make an even bigger leap.' It should be world class in terms of performance.

Just as an FYI, apparently the GT-R and Lexus LF-A test mules are already faster than Porsche's 997 Turbo mule on the Nurburgring. The two Japanese cars have become real rivals, and I heard the drivers almost killed each other going into one corner because neither would yield.

Quote:
I ask this because cars like the GT500 and the Z06 Vettes are pure sports cars, with few luxuries, making them very different cars from a luxury/sports coupe. A more luxury focused GT-R might not be the same kind of car that the R32, R33, and R34 were. Just a thought.

A heavier, more luxurious GT-R would not be very good competition for the lighter and stronger Z06 Vette.
Well, hopefully the GT-R won't be too luxury focused. One thing that gives us hope in this regard is that there will be a bigger luxury coupe from Infiniti shortly after the GT-R's release. A coupe version of the M45 will be available, which can afford to be more luxury oriented and perhaps compete with the BMW 6-series, upcoming Audi A6 coupe, and lower end MB SLs and CLs. This M45 coupe can take care of the luxury end, and let the GT-R be more hardcore.

With the best rumored specs thus far, the GT-R should beat the next M3(including the CSL), could possibly match the Ferrari 430, and come close to the C6 Z06. The GT-R should be shorter than a G35 Coupe, longer than a 350Z, but much wider than both. With some aluminum in the chassis, and aluminum and carbon fiber body panels, combined with the lighter e4wd system, the rumored weight of 3064lbs could be a reality. With a speculated 480hp, the GT-R would have a power to weight better than the F430, but not quite as good as the C6 Z06.


The GT500 should be a good bit cheaper than the GT-R, but they are aimed at slightly different audiences and have great performance in different ways. I think the GT-R(with the above specs) would be faster, but the Mustang will be a bargain in comparison.

Of course, Ford could always make a more hardcore GT350 with a bit more power(500?), less weight, and better handling via IRS.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:17 AM   #40
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Tell that to the lady next to the street when their 318i is poping out smoke due to heavy traffic jam. and for the next month or so she have to take the public transportation.

On the other hand, Nissan car even the JDM never get stuck, and even if they went into the service centre, that evening the owner can take his lovely car home.

(by the way this is very normal in Thailand to see BMW, Mercedes and other European car over heat simply because the were build with the highist standar and they never brake )
From what I can understand from that, sounds like your neighbour needs to find a new garage, because anyone that takes a month to fix a 318i needs a swift kick in the ass. Anyway back to what I was saying, I've never worked on GTR's and never would (But I've talked to plenty who have) hence I can safely say that I'll stick to my BMW, at least I know that when something goes wrong I can have it back on the road at the end of the weekend, I don't have to worry about AWD or turbos or 4WS or a computerised display of how fast I'm cornering or any other surplus crap. It's quite comforting really.


For what it's worth I've seen more broken down Nissans holding up a lane of traffic than pretty much every maker except the cars from British Leyland and Mitsubishi. Bluebirds were the worst offenders, followed by Cefiro's (This was mainly back a few years ago before I moved to Italy)
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Old 07-16-2005, 12:03 PM   #41
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Although current bmw's are certainly not unreliable, I'm pretty sure that the GT-R will be engineered to be more reliable. After all, nissan/infiniti does have the reputation for making some of the more reliable cars, and since nissan has been testing and developing this car for such a long time, I'm sure they'll engineer it to be quite reliable.

That said, I don't know how easily the car will respond to major mods though. I'm sure that to an extent the car will surely be modifiable, as modification was certiainly a highlight of previous GT-Rs. But since the R35 won't be using the mighty straight 6 from previous generations, I'm not sure if the engine is going to be able to handle some of the massive power outputs that the the older skylines were putting out.
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Old 07-16-2005, 12:45 PM   #42
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimster
From what I can understand from that, sounds like your neighbour needs to find a new garage, because anyone that takes a month to fix a 318i needs a swift kick in the ass. Anyway back to what I was saying, I've never worked on GTR's and never would (But I've talked to plenty who have) hence I can safely say that I'll stick to my BMW, at least I know that when something goes wrong I can have it back on the road at the end of the weekend, I don't have to worry about AWD or turbos or 4WS or a computerised display of how fast I'm cornering or any other surplus crap. It's quite comforting really.


For what it's worth I've seen more broken down Nissans holding up a lane of traffic than pretty much every maker except the cars from British Leyland and Mitsubishi. Bluebirds were the worst offenders, followed by Cefiro's (This was mainly back a few years ago before I moved to Italy)
Yea u should, the offical importer of BMW need a good kick in the ass. oh and ppl here don't go to anything but offical BMW service centre. and as for the bluebirds and cefiro, i don't what ur talking about but i have both the A32 and the A33 they run perfect (these car goes 50+km per day) we never having broken before. the only time that the A32 went in for a un-schudle service was when my cousin crash.

Hey, i never knew they were plenty of Skyline GT-R R34 in italy too

The only country that get them offically in Europe is The U.K.
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Old 07-16-2005, 12:58 PM   #43
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Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Originally Posted by kman10587
I don't give two shits about horsepower, and the GT500 designers have already stated that handling was an afterthought with the GT500. Their tire and suspension setup is designed to allow the car to launch better. For example, they have 30 mm wider rubber on the rear, which keeps the rear tires from going up in smoke, but it doesn't help the car's tendency to understeer.
Where did they state that?

The following is from Motor Trend May 2005 pages 54, 55, and 56:

"Hau Tai-Tang, the 2005 Mustang's chief program engineer, was handed the reins at SVT last fall."

"Visceral feedback from all driver inputs will be greatly increased; differentiated, yet well harmonized."

"We won't hesitate to have you do a driving comparison against IRS-suspended competitors."

There might be lighter, high-performance versions of the new Mustang coming.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:24 PM   #44
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Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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The GT500 should be a good bit cheaper than the GT-R, but they are aimed at slightly different audiences and have great performance in different ways. I think the GT-R(with the above specs) would be faster, but the Mustang will be a bargain in comparison.

Of course, Ford could always make a more hardcore GT350 with a bit more power(500?), less weight, and better handling via IRS.
Well, of course Ford cooooouuuuld do that, but I'd rather see a new Mustang with a n/a 5.0L or 5.4L. Lighter, packing an IRS, and right around 30-35k.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:34 PM   #45
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Re: Re: Re: Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

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Well, of course Ford cooooouuuuld do that, but I'd rather see a new Mustang with a n/a 5.0L or 5.4L. Lighter, packing an IRS, and right around 30-35k.
I would like to see something like the cammer motor in another mustang. A 5.0 DOHC and leave the cobras rear suspension in it. Its proven to work very well and would leave the cost down in the 30-35 range. I don't support the idea of IRS in the new mustang because it would just be a retrofit like the last cobras were. The only real benefit from that was ride quality and weight distribution. The new cobras rear is much better and will outhandle the last cobra.
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