SUPERcharging a 3.8 Lesabre!

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Ok, this is the summer project...

I need alist of things I need to do, to get this baby supercharged!

Harmonic Balancer.... I already need a new 1, so Im getting the 1 for the supercharged 3.8!

Belts - I should get that at the parts store easyily...

I know I may need to also change the computer, can I just change the chip inside of that box? with something for a supercharged 3.8? or do I need to take the entire box?
^^ I should be able to get both easily...

the supercharger itself, I can find fairly easy, for say under 200$ or so...

brackets, I may also have to take off the supercharged 3.8...

I noticed that on the SC and the regular, the alternator is in a different position alittle bit... will my old alternator still work from my regular 3.8?

Who has did this b4?

the car is a 93 Lesabre Limited...

[maxwedge]

Your real issue here is the bottom end of this engione is not built for the additional load exerted by a S/C. Rods, pistons, crank and so on are much heavier duty than your stock 3800.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Your real issue here is the bottom end of this engione is not built for the additional load exerted by a S/C. Rods, pistons, crank and so on are much heavier duty than your stock 3800.

hmmm, so it cant work? Its just a project car, if it blows the engine up, which I doubt, I can always do a full rebuild... Im SURE it will be ok, Im not goin to go all crazy with a SC...

also I thought they were the exact engines??

[HotZ28]

If I were you, I would scrap the “summer project” and save the money for an upgrade to the Ultra. Is it possible to just bolt SC on? The answer to that is NO! There are other possibilities, though, and none are cheap.

The reasons this will not work are extensive. The NA power trains are actually quite different when compared to the L67 (SC). The heads are different, the rods are different, lower intake is different, different injector placement, the fuel rail is different, and the compression ratio is different. Also, the pushrods, lifters, and rockers are not the same. Many of the accessories such as PS & alt have different mounting and pulleys. Now for the big one! The L67 SC comes with a heavy-duty transaxle also. Either the 4T60-E (HD) or the 4T65E(HD). Then there's the PCM, and the engine wiring harness to go with it. This doesn't even get into the little things. About the only thing these cars really have in common other than outside appearance is the Throttle Body.

So what are your options? First, you can find a salvaged SC engine/transaxle, and drop the whole thing in. The engine, trans, wiring harness, and PCM combo. You can get one from an Ultra, Bonneville or a Grand Prix. Very expensive by the time you're done! If you really want this, you could sell your car and buy a newer SC Ultra, for less money and a lot less work.

Second option would be an aftermarket Supercharger. This mod will run you over $3000. You would still have the problem of possibly killing your transaxle, because you still don't have the heavy duty version. Once again, you could sell your NA LeSabre, combine it with the $3000+ you would spend on this mod, and buy a newer Ultra.

Another option, which is more practical and a little cheaper, would be a Turbo. There's room for it, and they're easier to set up. It would have to be a custom job, because no one makes a kit YET.

In a nutshell, there are many external and internal differences between the supercharged and non-supercharged models. Adding more brackets and offsetting belt paths with a double-belt harmonic balancer, new PCM programming, and the rest of the drive train......this whole procedure gets VERY involved.

Has anyone added an Eaton supercharger to an L27 or L36 yet? Not to the best of our knowledge. Is it possible? Yes, but not PRACTICAL.

To do this, you have 3 options:

1. Try to add one. Very expensive and labor intensive.
2. Do a full engine/trans swap. (Engine, Trans, wiring harnesses, and PCM).
Slightly cheaper.
3. Sell your LeSabre and buy an Ultra. By far, the most cost-effective solution.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

If I were you, I would scrap the “summer project” and save the money for an upgrade to the Ultra. Is possible to just bolt SC on, the answer to that is NO! There are other possibilities, though, and none are cheap.

The reasons this will not work are extensive. The NA power trains are actually quite different when compared to the L67 (SC). The heads are different, the rods are different, lower intake is different, different injector placement, the fuel rail is different, and the compression ratio is different. Also, the pushrods, lifters, and rockers are not the same. Many of the accessories such as PS & alt have different mounting and pulleys. Now for the big one! The L67 SC comes with a heavy-duty transaxle also. Either the 4T60-E (HD) or the 4T65E(HD). Then there's the PCM, and the engine wiring harness to go with it. This doesn't even get into the little things. About the only thing these cars really have in common other than outside appearance is the Throttle Body.

So what are your options? First, you can find a salvaged SC engine/transaxle, and drop the whole thing in. The engine, trans, wiring harness, and PCM combo. You can get one from an Ultra, Bonneville or a Grand Prix. Very expensive by the time you're done! If you really want this, you could sell your car and buy a newer SC Ultra, for less money and a lot less work.

Second option would be an aftermarket Supercharger. This mod will run you over $3000. You would still have the problem of possibly killing your transaxle, because you still don't have the heavy duty version. Once again, you could sell your NA LeSabre, combine it with the $3000+ you would spend on this mod, and buy a newer Ultra.

Another option, which is more practical and a little cheaper, would be a Turbo. There's room for it, and they're easier to set up. It would have to be a custom job, because no one makes a kit YET.

In a nutshell, there are many external and internal differences between the supercharged and non-supercharged models. Adding more brackets and offsetting belt paths with a double-belt harmonic balancer, new PCM programming, and the rest of the drive train......this whole procedure gets VERY involved.

Has anyone added an Eaton supercharger to an L27 or L36 yet? Not to the best of our knowledge. Is it possible? Yes, but not PRACTICAL.

To do this, you have 3 options:

1. Try to add one. Very expensive and labor intensive.
2. Do a full engine/trans swap. (Engine, Trans, wiring harnesses, and PCM).
Slightly cheaper.
3. Sell your LeSabre and buy an Ultra. By far, the most cost-effective solution.

hey thanks for busting my bubble...
I see its ALOT MORE involved, even though they looks they exact same externally...

I do have the 4T60E Hydromattic Tranny however.. But after reading your reply, Im goin to throw that idea far.. lol
I was going to have my mechanic friend help with the work, but nahh...

time for a new car, and highly considering 2000+ Lesabre, Park Avenue or Cadillac... I love these cars..

Are all the Park Avenues supercharged after 2000?

Ill prob end up keeping my Limited for audio competitions.

[DrJay]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

If I were you, I would scrap the “summer project” and save the money for an upgrade to the Ultra. Is it possible to just bolt SC on? The answer to that is NO! There are other possibilities, though, and none are cheap.

The reasons this will not work are extensive. The NA power trains are actually quite different when compared to the L67 (SC). The heads are different, the rods are different, lower intake is different, different injector placement, the fuel rail is different, and the compression ratio is different. Also, the pushrods, lifters, and rockers are not the same. Many of the accessories such as PS & alt have different mounting and pulleys. Now for the big one! The L67 SC comes with a heavy-duty transaxle also. Either the 4T60-E (HD) or the 4T65E(HD). Then there's the PCM, and the engine wiring harness to go with it. This doesn't even get into the little things. About the only thing these cars really have in common other than outside appearance is the Throttle Body.

So what are your options? First, you can find a salvaged SC engine/transaxle, and drop the whole thing in. The engine, trans, wiring harness, and PCM combo. You can get one from an Ultra, Bonneville or a Grand Prix. Very expensive by the time you're done! If you really want this, you could sell your car and buy a newer SC Ultra, for less money and a lot less work.

Second option would be an aftermarket Supercharger. This mod will run you over $3000. You would still have the problem of possibly killing your transaxle, because you still don't have the heavy duty version. Once again, you could sell your NA LeSabre, combine it with the $3000+ you would spend on this mod, and buy a newer Ultra.

Another option, which is more practical and a little cheaper, would be a Turbo. There's room for it, and they're easier to set up. It would have to be a custom job, because no one makes a kit YET.

In a nutshell, there are many external and internal differences between the supercharged and non-supercharged models. Adding more brackets and offsetting belt paths with a double-belt harmonic balancer, new PCM programming, and the rest of the drive train......this whole procedure gets VERY involved.

Has anyone added an Eaton supercharger to an L27 or L36 yet? Not to the best of our knowledge. Is it possible? Yes, but not PRACTICAL.

To do this, you have 3 options:

1. Try to add one. Very expensive and labor intensive.
2. Do a full engine/trans swap. (Engine, Trans, wiring harnesses, and PCM).
Slightly cheaper.
3. Sell your LeSabre and buy an Ultra. By far, the most cost-effective solution.

I'm not usually one to quote a post, and I'm sorry, but 95% of what you just said is completely wrong. Sounds like you've been spending some time at the outdated and erroneous BC tech-info area.

Between the l67 and l27 of 1993 the heads are the same, the rods are nearly the same, lower intake is going to be replaced to use the SC anyway, and the compression ratio is the same. Also, the pushrods, lifters, and rockers are exactly the same. Oh and the PCM is the same but they use a different EEProm. You also don't need to swap the wiring harness.

The only difference that has been verified in the lower end is that the l67 has floating pins while the NA is press fit. The heads are the exact same all the way through.

Yes the l67 has a heavy duty transmission but by all accounts there is a small handful of parts and the diff that are changed. The final drive for HD transmissions is 2.97 for reduced torque multiplication which the brunt of the torque. You may not get 100,000 miles if you bolt an l67 to a non-hd transmission, but I *highly* doubt it'll explode tomorrow.

I'm not saying you can just bolt a supercharger to the top of your l27 and drive away but it's entirely possible if you do your research first.

Oh and BTW, yes it has been done a number of times, I've personally talked with a few of them.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Originally Posted by DrJay

I'm not usually one to quote a post, and I'm sorry, but 95% of what you just said is completely wrong. Sounds like you've been spending some time at the outdated and erroneous BC tech-info area.

Between the l67 and l27 of 1993 the heads are the same, the rods are nearly the same, lower intake is going to be replaced to use the SC anyway, and the compression ratio is the same. Also, the pushrods, lifters, and rockers are exactly the same. Oh and the PCM is the same but they use a different EEProm. You also don't need to swap the wiring harness.

The only difference that has been verified in the lower end is that the l67 has floating pins while the NA is press fit. The heads are the exact same all the way through.

Yes the l67 has a heavy duty transmission but by all accounts there is a small handful of parts and the diff that are changed. The final drive for HD transmissions is 2.97 for reduced torque multiplication which the brunt of the torque. You may not get 100,000 miles if you bolt an l67 to a non-hd transmission, but I *highly* doubt it'll explode tomorrow.

I'm not saying you can just bolt a supercharger to the top of your l27 and drive away but it's entirely possible if you do your research first.


Oh and BTW, yes it has been done a number of times, I've personally talked with a few of them.

Thanks, Well project is RE-OPENED!
Now I still need a list of things I need to do...

BTW I thought those years were the exactly the same almost also... And Im not worried about my tranny, its runs perfect..

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Also I found this... It says heads are the same..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3800_engine#3800

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

also guys, take a good look at this...
http://forums.aaca.org/showflat.php?...1&fpart=1&vc=1

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

this is what I have....
I belive its a SERIES 1 L27 Engine...
Runs phlawlessley.. except I need a new harmonic balancer, so I was goin to just purchase the one for the L67 engine...
I can take better more detailed pics anytime, this is just the last pic I had of the engine...
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=300a0223fb.jpg

can someone post pictures of a SC series 1? also will I need a SC idler pulley?

If I do this myself, I may end up spending 400$ or so...

[DrJay]

You should spend some time reading ALL of the build at http://forums.aaca.org/showflat.php?...1&fpart=1&vc=1
and
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...hlight=#594651

There's video of his car driving. Neat, but as you can see it's not quite as easy as you are hoping. Get everything setup before diving into it.

[Amopower]

What would be a safe way to get more out of a Lesabre (92-96), aside from opening up the exhaust and the air? Is nitrous a safer option on the bottom end, provided that you dont go crazy with a huge shot? If so, what would be a safe "shot" to go with? Would the stock fuel pump be sufficient to handle the extra fuel needs of nitrous?

[DrJay]

Originally Posted by Amopower

What would be a safe way to get more out of a Lesabre (92-96), aside from opening up the exhaust and the air? Is nitrous a safer option on the bottom end, provided that you dont go crazy with a huge shot? If so, what would be a safe "shot" to go with? Would the stock fuel pump be sufficient to handle the extra fuel needs of nitrous?

Kind of a strange question because in one way or another, without either holding a piston or at least seeing the top of one, to get more power you're going to need more airflow. Nitrous Oxide, when heated, splits into nitrogen and oxygen, which is literally just shoving more air into the cylinders.

More to the question at hand, yes you can "safely" install nitrous on your engine. I ran it for quite a while (don't anymore) and know of quite a few people using it. Your stock fuel pump can handle it but if you have over 60,000 miles on your engine I would consider new injectors or a good cleaning (removing them!) as absolutely necessary. One dirty injector and funtime is over.

The safe level is somewhat debatable. Nitrous is the quickest way to get more power but it's also the harshest. 300hp isn't always 300hp when it relates to engine and transmission wear. If you have an even transition from idle up to 300hp near redline then engine is doing fine, throw in a sharp jump from 200 to 300hp and it hits the components like a huge hammer.

With your years the bigger issue is the transmission. GM uses what's called Torque Management that's built into the EEProm. It's designed to cut timing and fuel at redline to cut power and save the transmission a harsh shift. A stock 60-E transmission is rated for only about 40 lb/ft more torque than a SC engine already has. With the introduction of nitrous you run a real risk of making the transmission come to pieces. It's not going to happen overnight, the rating of a transmission is for the LIFE of the car. Going over it doesn't always mean instant death, but it will shorten it.

Ok, off the soap box now. I ran a 75-90 shot using about 5 bottles with no issues. I did a full tear-down afterwards and nothing looked 'on its last leg' but it's not always something you'll see coming. I know of another person running a 125 shot for quite some time with no problems. If you're looking for just a little more with a high safety margin I would stick to a 55-65 shot. If run right I doubt it'll shorten the life of your car by much at all. Don't take that as a free ticket to run it, everything depends on how well your car was maintained and how well it was assembled. But again, one dirty injector...

[Amopower]

I just had to replace my transmission last year, so it's only a year old. Not bad getting 150k on the original.
When I was talking about "aside from more air or opening up the exhaust", I just meant that those are the common two initial things people do at first - k&N air filter and larger exhaust. I realize I will probably have to do those also if I go to nitrous.
What nitrous brand did you buy? NOS?
p.s. dirty injector = burnt piston due to running lean?

[DrJay]

Ahh...Well it's not really necessary to do any of those mods to use nitrous but of course the more the merrier.

I used a simple dry shot from Zex. Not the best (just about the worst really) but it got the job done and never gave me any fuss. The only thing you really need to worry about is placement. It might take a bit of work to get the nozzle situated so it doesn't spray all over the MAF. Once that's done you have easy access to the TPS for the full-throttle switch and you're in business. If you have all the tools laid out expect 45min-1hr for install. The hardest part is mounting the bottle and running the lines really.

If you have dough to spend I would strongly suggest a wet injection system. You might look into the NOSzle system. It adds the required additional fuel so there is an added layer of safety.

Yes, dirty injector = boom. When you see an engine explode using nitrous 9 out of 10 times it's because it ran lean. It takes less than 1 second of running lean to detonate the engine. It's powerful stuff and not for those just trying to emulate Fast and Furious type crap.