Good to know that an American Muscle Car is the fastest production car ever

[Automobile Maniac]

http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

Sorry Ferrari

[MagicRat]

While that is interesting, the site says this:

"Accurate? Not necessarily.** That largely depends on possibly hundreds of factors that need to be taken into account during testing, including weather, altitude, drivers, traction, etc."

Car magazines and autos tests were notorious for getting 'ringers' that is, factory prepped and modified cars which maximize their performance.

For more than 20 years, the quickest production car that Car& Driver magazine ever tested was a '65 Pontiac Catalina (389 V8), a full size car. It ripped off a 3.9 second 0-60 time. This was faster than any other car, including a bouquet of lighter Hemis, big block Chevy's etc.
It turns out that this car had a 421 V8 fully massaged by Royal Pontiac, a Detroit dealership that had a close performance association with the factory. This car was much much faster than a production Catalina.

[Thunda Downunda]

I have that test of the Pontiac 2+2. Years later IIRC an ex-C&D employee finally owned up that those impossible figures were rubbish anyway, as in those days magazines were more intent on racing each other in print rather than supplying accurate times

IMO only the naive would categorise a Hemi Dart or Barracuda as being a genuine 'production car'. To put it in perspective a 'stock standard' 1969 ZL1 Camaro with 4.0 gears was capable of high 11s .. but that's an open exhaust with ladder bars & big drag slicks so it's hardly 'standard-production' either is it?

These days you can buy catalogued-model Lotus Clubman clones or similar with race-spec LS1s jammed within. Tiny car, nothing to them. Very light, VERY quick. Do they qualify as a production car?

[Fleet 472]

I would agree that the title of "World's Fastest Accelerating" car goes to the '68 Hemi-Dart and Hemi-Barracuda. (BTW, those cars used the race Hemi rated at 525-550 hp, not 425 like the chart shows.)

I would also say that those Mopars were more of a production car than the Ferrari Enzo. For one thing, they were affordable, the Enzo certainly is not.
Even though the Hemi Dart/Barracuda were limited-production cars, anyone who wanted to buy one only had to walk into the same dealer where Slant-Six Valiants and Plymouth Fury Station Wagons were sold and put in an order. There were something like 50-60 of each (Hemi-Dart/Barracuda) sold. Since they had functional lights and windshield wipers, they could be driven on the street. I've seen a couple at car shows which were driven in off the street.

Anyway, I am glad that Mopar takes the #1 spot!
Those two Mopars will probably always be the fastest *affordable* cars. There's really no point having $600,000 cars in a "fastest" list since almost nobody could afford them. And the chance of even seeing one on the street is almost nil.

[xXxRocker5150]

^ me 2, and I do agree that there are some infractions on that list, but I think over all that the list isn't a bad one at all.

[feenix z]

that's all straight line stuff. I want to know how those top cars perform when they have to move the wheel at all. *screech screech spin spin spin *

[Mjollnir]

Originally Posted by Automobile Maniac

http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

Sorry Ferrari

LOL: Yep, perhaps up to that quarter mile marker, and even then the title should be 'quickest' accelerating, not 'fastest'. At some point just north of that 1/4, all the cuda would see would be the Ferrari's ass-end. Or when the first turn came up, perhaps.

[Fleet 472]

Originally Posted by Mjollnir

LOL: Yep, perhaps up to that quarter mile marker, and even then the title should be 'quickest' accelerating, not 'fastest'. At some point just north of that 1/4, all the cuda would see would be the Ferrari's ass-end. Or when the first turn came up, perhaps.

That would be of little comfort after one of the Mopars just blew away the Ferrari on the 1/4 mile. Since those Super Stock Hemi Mopars were only built for drag-strip racing, it would be out of context to see how they could corner. It would make about as much sense as entering the Ferrari in a fuel economy run.

[feenix z]

true, but i think the ferrari would win that one over the mopars too!

[Fleet 472]

Originally Posted by feenix z

true, but i think the ferrari would win that one over the mopars too!

Yeah, like muscle car fans such as I care about mileage!
I guess the Ferrari driver could say, after losing the 1/4 mile race to the Mopar, that his car gets better fuel mileage!

Since the Hemis are tough engines, they probably last a lot longer than the Ferrari engines. (Any engine that can rev to 8,000 rpm is going to be subjected to a lot of stress.)

[Mjollnir]

Originally Posted by Fleet 472

Yeah, like muscle car fans such as I care about mileage!
I guess the Ferrari driver could say, after losing the 1/4 mile race to the Mopar, that his car gets better fuel mileage!

Since the Hemis are tough engines, they probably last a lot longer than the Ferrari engines. (Any engine that can rev to 8,000 rpm is going to be subjected to a lot of stress.)

But you are basing everything on the quarter mile time/speed, which is not only not the only aspect of a car, not indicative of the fastest (but rather the quickest) and about the only thing the Hemi would have over the Enzo, since after the 1/4 mark, the Hemi had neither the aerodynamics, transmission or structural stability to match the Enzo. After the 1/4 mile time/speed, with no curves whatsoever, the Enzo owns the Hemi, game over, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to pink slip collection of the Ferrari owner.

The Hemi is great for what it was and what it can still do. And, in comparison to the Enzo, that's all it's worth and it's not much.

[Fleet 472]

Originally Posted by Mjollnir

But you are basing everything on the quarter mile time/speed, which is not only not the only aspect of a car, not indicative of the fastest (but rather the quickest) and about the only thing the Hemi would have over the Enzo, since after the 1/4 mark, the Hemi had neither the aerodynamics, transmission or structural stability to match the Enzo. After the 1/4 mile time/speed, with no curves whatsoever, the Enzo owns the Hemi, game over, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to pink slip collection of the Ferrari owner.

The Hemi is great for what it was and what it can still do. And, in comparison to the Enzo, that's all it's worth and it's not much.

The Hemi Mopars, of course, had beefed up transmissions.

With the Ferrari's ridiculous $652,000 price, who can afford one? Anyone back in the 1960s who could afford a Corvette or Ford Thunderbird could afford an S/S Hemi Mopar. Anyone today who could not afford a car more expensive than a Corvette could certainly not afford a Ferrari Enzo.

Also, those Hemi-Mopars could be modifed (for a LOT less than $652,000) to the point where they could keep up with the Ferrari long after the 1/4 mile.

Anyway, the 1/4 mile was what the S/S Hemi Mopars were built for, and they had the fastest 1/4 mile time of any factory, production, unmodifed (and *affordable*) car ever. That's worth a WHOLE LOT!

[Mjollnir]

Originally Posted by Fleet 472

The Hemi Mopars, of course, had beefed up transmissions.

With the Ferrari's ridiculous $652,000 price, who can afford one? Anyone back in the 1960s who could afford a Corvette or Ford Thunderbird could afford an S/S Hemi Mopar. Anyone today who could not afford a car more expensive than a Corvette could certainly not afford a Ferrari Enzo.

Also, those Hemi-Mopars could be modifed (for a LOT less than $652,000) to the point where they could keep up with the Ferrari long after the 1/4 mile.

Anyway, the 1/4 mile was what the S/S Hemi Mopars were built for, and they had the fastest 1/4 mile time of any factory, production, unmodifed (and *affordable*) car ever. That's worth a WHOLE LOT!

Yes, but so what? Any "yeah, but's...." have nothing to do with the thread subject and the title. They might give you a cup of coffee and $0.25 for it over in the thread entitled, "Good to know that an American Muscle Car is the fastest, most-affordable production car ever that would have to be modified to do anything other than a 1/4 mile and have a hope in hell to keep up with the Enzo", but trust me, you wouldn't like it over there

[feenix z]

while we're on the subject of ridiculous prices, has anyone seen the price of some of the original Hemi cars? A hemi 'cuda drop top makes an Enzo look affordable.

[Fleet 472]

Originally Posted by Mjollnir

Yes, but so what? Any "yeah, but's...." have nothing to do with the thread subject and the title. They might give you a cup of coffee and $0.25 for it over in the thread entitled, "Good to know that an American Muscle Car is the fastest, most-affordable production car ever that would have to be modified to do anything other than a 1/4 mile and have a hope in hell to keep up with the Enzo", but trust me, you wouldn't like it over there

Okay, if you want a quick conclusion, how about this:
The Super/Stock Hemi Mopars were quicker in the 1/4 mile run than the Ferrari Enzo. Period.