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Old 02-07-2005, 03:40 PM   #31
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Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim1950

A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.

Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO

I think then a lot of those cars would be disissed, last I checked chevelle SS, Ford Cobras, and GTOs were running well over 20K, making them unafordable to the average person since they can't ussually be used as daily drivers.
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Old 02-09-2005, 12:44 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

I don't think anybody Mentions 69 Nova 396 4speed. Big Block Engine, Lite weight body. That is the Key. I watched it on some show, I don't remember but They said it was the Fastest. I am not Bais cause I Have a 70 Chevelle SS 454 LS6. Here in Tucson. I run 12.5 @ 107mph. Balanced Blue Printed Engine Other than that Engine is Stock All though I run ET Street Slicks. 3500 Stall. Shift kit. Exhaust Cut Outs. 4.11 gears, 750 Holly. It should be a 850 Demon. Soon Looking to Sell It. That will be very Hard to Part with. I will work on my 65 Fastback with most of the Money I get from the Chevelle. That is my next Project. Love Muscle Cars. I drive a Honda Accord LX For Pizza Hut to save on GAS. Thanks for Hondas
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Old 06-19-2005, 04:43 PM   #33
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I have to agree with wedgemotor. The 70 Chevelle SS has to be the KING! I mean really, to be able to walk into a dealership and buy something so readily available! Yes, the Hemis were fast but not near as consistent as the Chevelle at the track, and also a little rarer to come across. The big block Novas were fast too, but more of a low key car. You know they had the sleeper thing covered. If the Nova had gotten the LS6 and wieghing almost 1000lbs less and maybe the bold stripes, I don't think we'd be asking this question.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:41 PM   #34
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Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Actually Road & Track magazine invented the term "Musclecar" (one word) in a 1965 article surveying the new crop of big-engine intermediates.

As one who grew up in Southern California in the street racing for money culture, the consistently fastest stock model is almost never mentioned in muscle car circles.

I worked for a Chevy dealer (mostly on Corvettes) in 1967 and the big blocks still had a lot of bugs in them, mostly valve train weaknesses. The 327 was the way to go but you needed a light car to let it shine.

The cars that consistently brought home the green were '65-'67 Chevy IIs and Novas with the 350 (closer to 370 actual) horse 327s! Removing weight is always more efficient than adding power.

Last edited by sub006; 09-23-2005 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 06-28-2005, 09:53 PM   #35
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Thumbs up

Ah, the L-79 Novas. I know a guy that has a 67 and yes they are fast!
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:35 AM   #36
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Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

GTO, Chevelle SS, GTX, Cobra 428, all nice cars if you wanted pretty styling and some luxuries. But not for the average person who needed to win money or a pink on the street in the late 60's.

Ask any physicist, light weight will alway trump big power. While many don't consider them musclecars, the '62-'67 Chevy II's and Novas equipped with small blocks would run away and hide from everything else, including Hemi intermediates.

Bill Jenkins, Bill Thomas and others knew what they were doing!
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Old 07-23-2005, 02:21 AM   #37
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The Dodge Coronet is not a full-sized car; it's an intermediate (the wheelbase is 117"). The Plymouth Fury, with its 119" wheelbase, along with the Chevy Impala/Caprice and Ford Galaxie which also had 119" wheelbases are full-sized cars.
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Old 07-23-2005, 02:25 AM   #38
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Re: Re: Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground Rat
Those factory hemi darts and 'cudas were not street legal.
I've seen several of those at car shows driven off the street. They came from the factory with functional lights and windsheild wipers. In other words, in many cases, the Hemi-Darts and Barracudas which were not "street legal" can be driven on the street!
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Old 07-23-2005, 02:29 AM   #39
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Re: Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sub006
Ask any physicist, light weight will alway trump big power. While many don't consider them musclecars, the '62-'67 Chevy II's and Novas equipped with small blocks would run away and hide from everything else, including Hemi intermediates.
Stock, and with factory tires, those small block Chevy II's and Novas could run 1/4 miles in the 14s.
The fastest of the Hemi-intermediates could run in the 13s under the same conditions.
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Old 07-27-2005, 10:35 AM   #40
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Re: Re: Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet 472
Stock, and with factory tires, those small block Chevy II's and Novas could run 1/4 miles in the 14s.
The fastest of the Hemi-intermediates could run in the 13s under the same conditions.
sub006 hit it:
less weight=more power

I don't get to drive my muscle car on the street much, since it is hard and expensive to find a 100octane pump; but take that 'tubed and tubbed' mentality to an American or European compact and mpg increases and light-to-light decreases.

as far as muscle cars; I'm GM biased (big block in a shoe box WINS), but those 427s in that british frame: whiplash!

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Old 07-29-2005, 01:21 AM   #41
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctesla
sub006 hit it:
less weight=more power

I don't get to drive my muscle car on the street much, since it is hard and expensive to find a 100octane pump; but take that 'tubed and tubbed' mentality to an American or European compact and mpg increases and light-to-light decreases.

as far as muscle cars; I'm GM biased (big block in a shoe box WINS), but those 427s in that british frame: whiplash!

ctesla
Less weight= faster acceleration, not more power.
I dug up a road test of a '62 Chevy II with a Corvette engine from the June, 1962 issue of Car Life magazine. Engine is the 327 V-8 with 360 horsepower and 352 ft/lbs torque. Compression ratio is 11.25:1. Let's compare with the mid-sized Hemi Mopars...

Car-------- Axle ratio- Weight-- 0-60 mph 1/4 mile Source
'62 Chevy II- 3.08:1--- 2,990 lbs-7.3 sec- 14.8@94--- C/L

'68 Dodge
Charger R/T- 3.23----- 4,035---- 4.8---- 13.5@105--- C/D
'69 Charger
500-------- 3.23----- 3,950---- 5.7---- 13.92@104.5-C/L
------------ 3.54----- 4,025---- 5.7---- 13.68@104.8-C/L
'69 Road
Runner----- 3.54----- 3,938---- 5.1---- 13.54@105.14-C/D
'68 Road
Runner----- N.A.----- N.A.----- N.A.---- 13.54@105.1- C/D
'71 Super Bee- 4.10--- 4,065---- 5.7----- 13.7@104---- M/T
'67 Satellite- N.A.----- N.A.------ N.A.--- 13.81@104--- C/D

(C/L... Car Life; M/T... Motor Trend; C/D... Car & Driver)
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Old 07-29-2005, 01:31 PM   #42
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Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

2005 GTO, 13.25 @ 108 MPH. Stock as a rock, seen it with m own eyes (Dinwiddie, VA, May, 05). With slicks? 12.50s all week...
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Old 07-29-2005, 10:39 PM   #43
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1969 Plymouth Road Runner 440+6 bbl, 12.98 sec @ 111.66 mph (Drag Racing Magazine, June, 1969 with Ronnie Sox driving) Unmodified, factory stock tires.
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Old 08-01-2005, 09:15 AM   #44
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Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Fleet472,
I recall TV commercials in '70, where Dodge ran a SuperBee 6-Pack car into the 12s, and made a "money back" guarentee yours could do that, too. With all the talk here, I was wondering about those claims. I never actually saw one do it, and pretty much never got beat by a 6-Pack anything (Ram Air GTO). But they DID make the claim! Good call.
JIm

Jim
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Old 08-02-2005, 07:09 PM   #45
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Re: Re: Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPbody
Fleet472,
I recall TV commercials in '70, where Dodge ran a SuperBee 6-Pack car into the 12s, and made a "money back" guarentee yours could do that, too. With all the talk here, I was wondering about those claims. I never actually saw one do it, and pretty much never got beat by a 6-Pack anything (Ram Air GTO). But they DID make the claim! Good call.
JIm

Jim
Super Stock magazine also got a '69 RR 440-6 bbl into the 12s (12.91) and a Chrysler ad of the same type of car ran 10 or 12 runs on the drag strip; their best time was 13 seconds flat (13.00 sec).

I've never heard of the claim you mentioned, but it does seem possible that a stock 440-6 RR could go into the high 12s with a properly-tuned engine, a track with decent traction and a good driver.

What year/engine is/was your GTO?
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