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Old 05-29-2009, 10:34 AM   #1
andante147
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AC issues

I have a '93 1.9 LX hatchback.

The AC was working but just barely so I decided to do the changeover to new coolant. Simple kit just replaces the connectors. I let out the old freon (yes, I know - not supposed to)

I refilled from the kit, watching the pressure gauge. Now the compressor cycles rapidly ... maybe off for 5 second and on for 2 seconds.

As best I can tell, for the 2 seconds it starts to cool, but obviously it's not right.

I tried to add for coolant, but the pressure gauge registers "danger" when the compressor cycles on, and then in the low to normal range when it cycles off.

Budget for repairs is VERY tight, so I need advice on step-by-step diagnoses and possible part replacements.

One source said I should have "pulled a vacuum". Will a garage do ONLY that for me, and I do the rest? What parts, if any, should be replace in the switchover beyond the filler valves?

I have a chilton manual for this, but no others.

Thanks!
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:30 PM   #2
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Re: AC issues

I wouldn't base an AC changeover on info from a Chilton manual.
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:45 PM   #3
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Re: AC issues

I'm not - I based the changeover on the instructions that came with the kit. (Which are probably very inadequate.) I only mention the Chilton in re. if someone recommends certain parts be replaced to properly change over, I have Chilton available. (I do find it to be adequate for R & R of anything my skill level would tackle.)
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:21 PM   #4
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Re: AC issues

Explain the process you followed.
How did you measure the pressure and what is it at?
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Old 05-29-2009, 02:42 PM   #5
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Re: AC issues

I used the gauge that is included in the freon changeover and refill kit. I don't remember the numbers, but the gauge has ranges marked low, good, caution, danger or something close to that.

So as I filled the system with the new freon, the compressor started cycling on and off, and as I said, when it's on the pressure reads too high, and when it's off it reads too low.
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:22 AM   #6
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Re: AC issues

Usually when the clutch on the A/C cycles rapidly the system is low on freon. There is a low pressure swtich on the accumulator/dryer on the left of the firewall as you are looking at the engine from the front. Pull the electrical connector off and by pass the switch with a wire connecting the two terminals. If the clutch stays on the freon is too low and you need to add more. If the clutch still cycles the high pressure switch is engaging and you have too much freon in the system. The only other thing it could be is that the orifice is plugged up with foreign matter or ice. It is located along the right side of the engine bay as you are looking at the engine from the front. It is in the middle and runs just below where the hood closes.

The purpose of pumping the system down with a vacuum pump is to get rid of moisture in the system which can freeze and restrict the movement of freon. When the vacuum is low enough the moisture in the system will boil away at room temperature. You may have a problem because you didn't pump it down. If so, a restriction in the system would cause the symptoms you describe.

Personally I don't think you have enough freon in the system. There should be a sticker on the hood telling how much freon to put in. I think about 1 1/2 or 2 lbs. Your gauge you are using measures pressure in the low side of the system which are substantially lower than the head pressures of the compressor. Diagnose the level of charge with the above procedure and see if it works any better for you. I hope I have been of some help. --Dave
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Old 05-30-2009, 08:47 AM   #7
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Re: AC issues

I had the exact same problem on my '93. The problem was the screen in the orifice was clogged. I knew nothing about these but it wasn't that hard to change. When you buy a new one you'll need a special tool that releases the connections. With this thing clogged all the 'freon' in the world won't help.
I think my problem occurred right after I switched over to R-134a. Don't get it over pressurized. I did on mine and blew out a seal on the compressor! Below is a photo with a black ring around orifice:
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:23 PM   #8
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Re: AC issues

I had decided to take the car in to the shop and pay to have this fixed - I tried the recommended procedure above and added coolant and it's still warm.

So the shop called me and asked if I had fully evacuated the system. I told him I just let the stuff out ... so he said he can't repair it because if the coolant is contaminated he can't pull it out. He also said I needed to have done the accumulator/drier and the orifice tube when I retrofitted the car.

So - I'm headed home to let out all the 134a that's in there in the process of replacing those parts. (I have them on hand because of advice from somewhere else on line.)
My Chilton manual doesn't give me any info on this ... I'm going to just try to figure it out. I do see on line that you're supposed to use a special tool to open the orifice tube area.

I was wondering ... ** if another garage has an R12 removal facility, would THEY be able to evacuate the potentially contaminated coolant?

** anything I can try other than letting it all dissipate when I replace the Acc./Drier and orifice tube?

** any other advice on my next step?

Thanks!
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:39 AM   #9
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Re: AC issues

When I changed mine over all I did was let the R-12 out and then put in the oil and fittings that came with the kit. About a year later the orifice clogged up. Replace it and that's all that I've done. Been running it about 4 years now.

If you are letting R-12 OUT then how could contaminants go IN? I think your A/C guy is full of BS and you should go somewhere else or just try it yourself.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:46 AM   #10
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Re: AC issues

What he said was that he couldn't evacuate the system is there was any chance of R12 residue in it from the changeover.

I *could* change the orifice, but then I have to let out all the R134 that I've put in and start over. I have an appt to take it in today ... unless I decide to cancel shortly and try it again myself. I hate wasting all the 134 not to mention the atmosphere!
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:57 PM   #11
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Re: AC issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzTumbleweed View Post
I think your A/C guy is full of BS and you should go somewhere else or just try it yourself.
I agree.
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:52 PM   #12
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Re: AC issues

Personally wouldn't trust any changeover kit. Too many horror stories I've heard. Changeovers should be done by experienced professionals if at all. As far as I know it's still possible to get the old stuff. My Brother did for his '85 Honda but is a mechanic by trade.
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:57 PM   #13
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Re: AC issues

Well, I already did the changeover, so it's too late. I never could find R12 and the right filler hardware to just charge it myself. (Man, would THAT have saved me some trouble!)

It's in a DIFFERENT shop as we speak - I'm pretty sure this one knows what they're doing. I know for sure they'll R/R the drier and the orifice tube bc. I had already bought them and gave them the parts.

Right now I'm betting on the orifice tube having been the problem - I'll know before long.
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