2002 Windstar - Stalling when cold low spd

[gibou]

Hello,

My 2002 Windstar stalls when it is cold. Especially if im going slow or coming to a stop. However it only happens when the engine temperature is cold. This stalling is accompanied by a grinding/squealing noise which I think is my S belt, not sure though. In reading the various posts, I suspect one of the pulleys in the front of the engine is grabbing/binding and stalling the engine. Once it gets warm enough it loosens up and the problem disappears.

I intend on removing the belt tomorrow morning and starting the van without it. Not sure if that is a good idea though, can i damage something if I do that?

In doing so, I would be able to isolate the problem to the accessories or the engine itself.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Gibou

[wiswind]

You will not harm anything by running the engine for a VERY SHORT time with the belt removed.

Another thing to try is cleaning the Idle Air Control (IAC).
This is mounted on top of the upper intake manifold....next to the throttle body.
This is how the PCM controls the idle speed of the motor.....it opens and closes to adjust to various loading conditions.
If it sticks.....it can cause stalling as you mention.
Remove the 2 small bolts that hold the IAC in place.....and hold so that you can spray into it.....and have the fluid run out.
Use the spray version of SeaFOAM or even WD-40 .....to spray in....and wash dirt out....leaving a lubricating film.

[gibou]

Thanks for your reply wiswind,

Cleaning the IAC is my next step. Although the IAC being dirty would not explain grinding/rattling noise near the drive belt. I removed it this morning, and the noise is still there but less noticeable. I think I have a bad bearing in there somewhere.

Does the Windstar have a timing belt or chain? If its a belt then it could be a bad tenisionner.

Anyway, im off to clean the IAC. I will try anything that I can do myself before bringing it in to a garage.

[wiswind]

Windstar has a timing chain.
Getting to it is a major repair.....fortunately.......it seems to be quite reliable......as you will not find hardly any posts about it failing.

My only personal experience is with my '96.......
One thing that some have mentioned....more on the older windstars, is the Camshaft Position Sensor (CPS) syncronizer shaft.....the shaft that goes down to the camshaft......squealing due to lack of lubrication.
I will leave it to someone who has had experience with that issue (I have not) to comment further.

Also.....you have electric IMRC control (mine is vaccum driven), and I don't know if those can make noise?
Again better for someone with a newer windstar to comment.

Is it possible that the noise is comming from under the vehicle?
One possible source from under the vehicle.....
The heat shields on the catalytic converters can break loose.
Solution is to get a big oversized hose clamp.....from the plumbing department at the hardware store......and put 2 clamps around each catalytic converter.....to hold the heat shields tight.
That is the FORD method listed in a TSB.....I just got the clamps at the hardware store......for less $$$

[gibou]

Wow! quick replies! Thanks!

I'm 90% sure the sound is from the area around or below the water pump (use a long screwdriver to listen). I looked up the CPS in my Haynes manual and it is one of the possible culprits. I will do more research.

Thank you so much for your help.

Does anyone have experience with CPS and sync assembly?

[gibou]

Two more things, would I get a check engine light if the CPS or synchroniser assembly was bad?

I have not had any check engine lights yet.

And the van stalls only when the noise is present. No noise, no problem.

I recently had the oil changed. The oil cap says 5W20, is that still the recommended oil. Isn't it kindof thin for a big engine like that? I wonder if I add something like Lucas additive or thicker oil, will it lubricate the CPS synchro assembly better?

[wiswind]

One would expect that if the CPS was bad enough to cause the engine to stall....that it would set the CEL with a code.
The sensor is very easy to change.....on top of the syncro......held in place by 2 small bolts.

The CPS syncro is NOT so easy.....you have to have it lined up just right.....or the timing will be off.
Years ago.....in the days of distributors on cars.....you would loosten a bolt and turn the distributor to adjust the engine timing.
Well.....the same bolt is still there.......but all that is left of the distributor is the CPS.
It is not all that is involved in timing.....but it is still a very important part of it.
I have replaced the CPS......but have not had to mess with the syncro.


Motor oil....YES the 5W-20 is the correct oil.
I am using it in my old '96 with over 195K miles on it.
FORD issued a TSB recommending 5W-20 oil for all the windstar years.....and most other vehicles as well.
The difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 is not very much.
Many people had the same concern as you about the 5W-20 oil......but time has shown that it does very well.

[gibou]

Ok, if I assume that the CPS is ok, can the synchronizer be bad by itself without setting of the check engine light? The sound does come from that area, if thats not it, its either water pump or crank bearing (I really doubt its the crank bearing though, it really sounds like something lacks oil)

Gibou

[12Ounce]

I applaud Wiswind for remembering the synchroniser. It does make a squeal as it "runs out of oil". Changing your engine oil will have little effect ... its just a poor lubircation design ... the uppen end of the synchro gets very little oil under the best conditions ... none after crud builds up.

As the synchro "catches" and wobbles ... the cam pos sensor doesn't pick up and the engine shuts down ... possible all before a code is sent.

Wiswind is also correct about the timing required of the synchro ... you must know what you are doing before upsetting the current position/timing of the synchro.

However, removing the cam positioning sensor (on top of the synchro) is quite a safe thing to do ... and you can pour some oil into the synchro once the sensor is removed ... and it may do some good. Get things good and wet with oil ... let it sit awhile, and then mop out the excess. Re-install the sensor.

If yours is not too bad, this may be all you have to do. If its too worn and wobbly, it'll have to be replaced.

If you need a photo, I may have an old synchro lying around somewhere.

[gibou]

Well, I took a chance and brought my van into a garage today and told them to change the sensor and synchronizer. $445.00 CDN including taxes. Would have cost me $120.00 more if they had bought the parts from Ford. I told them to look for a supplier of DORMAN parts (on RockAuto.com they tare he least expensive). I lack a garage and the time to do it myself.

I just bought this van for a good price so another $445.00 is not too bad. Hopefully it stops there.

If I had not told them exactly what to do, I hate to think what they would change to take care of the problem.

Anyway, I will write back in about a week to confirm or not the fix.

Gibou

PS looks like I'm not the only one having this problem:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=895255

[gibou]

Well, looks like my synchronizer was the problem. No more squeaking and stalling.

Thanks to all for the help.

[jdpk]

12Ounce and Wiswind as usual are on the money. I had the squeak/stall expericence and convinced myself it had to be in the belt train somewhere. NOPE!. Luckily the only "guess" I made wrong was to replace the tensioner pulley. Then I came across the cam synchro suggestion here on the forum. My Winnie wouldnt even run long enough for me to start it, run around and get my 'listening device' (PVC tubing) ready. I removed the sensor and shot some oil in there using a baby medicine syringe. So far so good. I hope I caught it in time to avoid replacing the whole thing.
Thanks to all the great advice on this forum. It has been invaluable in the care and maintenance of my two Windstars.