2002 Acura NSX

[igor@af]

I just got my C&D for January today.

I quote:
" Generally regarded as the car that made Ferrari rethink its build quality, the aging NSX is due for its first major makeover since the car's launch in 1991. It's a makeover that will bump its status from light exotic to full-fledged supercar.

The new model will be powered by a version of the 3.5-liter DOHC 40-valve V-8 intended for the next Legend (RL in the U.S.) sedan, generating 385 horsepower--a smashing 105 more than the previous NSX-T. This means, among other things, that Honda will be the first Japanese manufacturer to break the country's gentlemen's agreement limiting maximum engine output to 276. This huge power boost is expected to give the new NSX 200-mph capability. There will also be a 415-hp, 3.6-liter racing version of the engine, which Honda may use to mount an assault on the 24-hour endurance race at Le Mans.

Although the design of the second-generation NSX isn't final, it's expected dimensionally similar to the current car and also to reflect the car's significantly higher performance aspirations. Also significanlty higher will be the price--about $143,000."

After the new NSX's debut in spring of 2002, I'm pretty sure the revolution will begin, and no one will care about the 276hp agreement. I think this is very good for the Japanese market. All the Japanese supercars can then be compared to other cars like Porsches for top speed(I hope Japanese government will nullify the 180 km/h [118mph] top speed limit..), and the Japanese "stock" cars will takeover Nurburgring records completely.

[honduh]

that's a tight article!
The revolution thought is pretty exciting!
If this 'revolution' does happen, then Japanese cars will dominate the world completely under 'non-modified' competitions! The price tag sucks though.

[enzo@af]

They will rule the n-ring? Uh, try again. As I recall Porsche's (three were Gemballas, one was a 993) hold 4 of the 5 fastest records, and 7 out of the top 10. Even then, the Skyline that got 10th was definitely not a stock car! What car was 11th? You got it, a Porsche.

The new NSX will undoubtedly get a better time than it had previous (currently ~50th best!), but don't expect it to challenge the Gemballa records. It would require a 49 second drop off it's previous time...roughly 11% of it!

The n-ring is the Porsche's track when it comes to stock records, and don't expect it to change too quickly.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

Edited by: enzo@af

[igor@af]

...NOT EXACTLY. :{
How many horses does a stock Porsche 993 have??? (fill in the blank)
How many horses does a stock Skyline GT-R have?(276)
How many horses will the stock Porsche 993 have now? (same number as before)
How many horses will a stock Skyline GT-R have?(350 if not more)
Who do you think will rule Nurburgring now?
The answer is obvious: Skyline GT-R

If you disagree, give me a good argument.

[enzo@af]

My argument comes from this simple fact....

#1)Gemballa GTR Biturbo 600HP
#4)Blitz Toyota Supra, app. 650 hp
Why didn't the most powerful car win?

Horsepower doesn't decide a race. If the most powerful car always won the race we wouldn't need to race. We could just dyno our cars and decide it then. We could tear down the Nurburgring, and Willows Glen, and Laguna Seca and use the area for all sorts of wonderful things, since racing was no longer necessary. However, certain other things arise when racing, such as handling, Torque and torque curves, drag coefficients, gearing, and weight. I think the Skyline is wonderful, but if a heavily modified R33 could best manage 10th place, why should I believe that a 350hp Skyline will do any better. Also, you state that the Skyline had 276 hp...You're basing that on Manufacturers specs...Nissan intentionally rated it low to pass Japanese regulation. With that kind of quarter mile time it should have about 340hp at the flywheel, quite a bit more.

Is Porsche going to stop manufacturing cars? I mean, who says the Gemballa 993 will be the last Porsche ever? Have you heard of a 980(700 hp)? What about all of RUF's outputs? In fact, a new GT2 with a 0-60 of 4.0 is set to be released at Detroit in 2001...hmmmm what will Ruf and Gemballa do with that?

I think you're blinded by your love of Nissan. I don't especially care for Porsche, and I hate to admit it...but it's their course.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

[DC2 309]

that is one f%#king ignorant euro car owner man, hey owning euro car doesnt mean you are the king.
Yes, the car that brakes the Nurbergring record is a factory produced stock GTR-R34 N1 spec and yes, it is the truth and just accept it. Come on man, Gembala Porsche is not a fricking standard car man...it is tweaked....I am not saying Japs car is the best, but just except the truth that the GTR is really doing better than some other cars in Nurbergring.

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Integra TypeR #309, Championship White.
Best front wheel drive ever built

[JD]

Is raising the price to $143,000 a bad move? Hard to say, since we don't know what Honda's marketing intentions are with the new NSX. It is obvious that Honda is making a move to push the new NSX in competition with the likes of the Modena, 911 Turbo, and perhaps the Z8. While I posted in a different NSX thread ("Praise.&quot just a few minutes ago complimenting the marketing strategy in selling the NSX for about $90,000, pushing the price to such extremes is a different story altogether. Can a Japanese car fetch the same amount of money in a world-wide market as a Ferrari? The move is gutsy by Honda, but I think they can pull it off. Does it make the average person happy? No, certainly not since it makes a financially unattainable car that much more unattainable. But it may represent an intelligent scheme by Honda to provide a Japanese alternative in a market monopolized by European untra-exotic supercars.

[enzo@af]

Well, actually, I don't own a Euro car, and actually, the Gemballa is a production car. It's a tuned version, such as a Nismo 400R or a Koenig KS360.

As far as "accepting" that the R34 holds the record...that will be fine with me, once I see some proof. If you could perhaps state where you get your info I would be delighted! No longer would I have to respect Porsche. However, as it sits now, I haven't seen anything close to along those lines.

http://www.born-free.net/nordschleife.html

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

[autofan]

Well, actually, I don't own a Euro car, and actually, the Gemballa is a production car. It's a tuned version, such as a Nismo 400R or a Koenig KS360.

I'm not biased here, I just know how good the Skyline GT-R is

Well...... if Gemballa is a production car just like Nismo 400R why can Gemballa compete and 400R can't?
I think that if 400R tried on the Nurburgring, it would beat other cars' times very easily.
If Jap manufacturers do brake the gentleman agreement, they will get out in light and make a lot of new things happen.

[enzo@af]

Quote: enzo@af ( 2:06 am on Dec. 5, 2000 )

My argument comes from this simple fact....

#1)Gemballa GTR Biturbo 600HP
#4)Blitz Toyota Supra, app. 650 hp
Why didn't the most powerful car win?

Horsepower doesn't decide a race. If the most powerful car always won the race we wouldn't need to race. We could just dyno our cars and decide it then. We could tear down the Nurburgring, and Willows Glen, and Laguna Seca and use the area for all sorts of wonderful things, since racing was no longer necessary. However, certain other things arise when racing, such as handling, Torque and torque curves, drag coefficients, gearing, and weight. I think the Skyline is wonderful, but if a heavily modified R33 could best manage 10th place, why should I believe that a 350hp Skyline will do any better. Also, you state that the Skyline had 276 hp...You're basing that on Manufacturers specs...Nissan intentionally rated it low to pass Japanese regulation. With that kind of quarter mile time it should have about 340hp at the flywheel, quite a bit more.

Is Porsche going to stop manufacturing cars? I mean, who says the Gemballa 993 will be the last Porsche ever? Have you heard of a 980(700 hp)? What about all of RUF's outputs? In fact, a new GT2 with a 0-60 of 4.0 is set to be released at Detroit in 2001...hmmmm what will Ruf and Gemballa do with that?

I think you're blinded by your love of Nissan. I don't especially care for Porsche, and I hate to admit it...but it's their course.

First of all, not once here did I say I dislilke the Skyline. I do say that I dislike Porsche's...how someone might have construed this as that "I'm a Euro car owner" I don't know, but that's not the point. So, now that we can see my lack of bias, we can address this logically and deductively. Notice, I also never once said a 400R can't compete. In fact, the Skyline that got 10th back in '95 was expected to have 400hp...like a 400R. Even if a 400R were to compete, I don't think it would challenge the Gemballa record. I mean, a Ferrari 355 has a better hp:weight ratio than the 400R (not to mention better aerodynamics, wonderful handling, better 0-60...) and it hasn't done crap there. Why...I repeat..WHY should I expect a Skyline to break the record? When you can give me hard evidence as to why it will happen, I might consider it. But as for now, it doesn't look too promising to me...I wish it did.
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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

[enzo@af]

Quote: DC2 309 ( 6:58 am on Dec. 5, 2000 )
that is one f%#king ignorant euro car owner man, hey owning euro car doesnt mean you are the king.
Yes, the car that brakes the Nurbergring record is a factory produced stock GTR-R34 N1 spec and yes, it is the truth and just accept it. Come on man, Gembala Porsche is not a fricking standard car man...it is tweaked....I am not saying Japs car is the best, but just except the truth that the GTR is really doing better than some other cars in Nurbergring.

Way to use personal attacks to "strengthen" your argument. Well, since there really is no argument, no evidence, just speculation, I guess your comments were just bull-headedness. Just as you never said that "Japs car is the best", I never said that Porsche's were the best...just that they are the best at this track. I base that on performance there.

And hey,
accept: To recieve willingly, to approve of, to agree to
except: To leave out or take out, exclude
But, I'm "f%#king ignorant", right?

Edited by: enzo@af

[igor@af]

Ok guys,
c'mon.
let's stop the fighting and let's not call anybody "fucking ignorant"
I guess it's kinda my fault since i started the speculation, but didn't expect it to go this far, no i didn't

i think that a new forum will be appropriate for the speculations, how about i make one under "Racing" and title it "Nurburgring"?
but be warned, expect to be called all the bad names in that forum since almost every enthusiast is pretty biased and wants to argue in the empty air. Just don't take it close to your heart

by the way,
don't you think that honda is making a pretty bad move by raising the price to $143,000 ?
it's like 50% increase.
or maybe it is a good idea, maybe more people will consider it closer to the exotics like ferrari and lambo, since the price is a lot closer.
i don't know. feel free to argue

[unite@af]

I’m going with Enzo on this one. HP is cool and all but without torque you have nothing. When it comes to the argument of "how could a 400hp car loose to a 350hp car in time trials", well its simple kids. My truck has probably 225hp or so and maybe a little less torque. Now give me a Subaru with 140hp and no torque and I bet you 200 bucks I could beat a pro driver in my truck with that little Subaru. Why is this? How could a V-8 loose to a h-4?

Design!!! Yes my comparison was drastic but its all about design. Aerodynamics, Gears, torque, powerbands, tires, brakes, handling, is it all wheel drive? So when you say that the new NSX will slaughter the porches current times I laugh. It would be 11% time cut. A drop of 49 places in current standings. Is this going to happen? No.

So I ask you to not just look at HP. Don’t even look at HP and Torque. Look at everything. What good is 500hp and matching torque if the gearing is wrong and your rearend doesn’t have posi, locker, or some type of traction control? Nothing. Its far to easy to say that a car will do well if its just throwin on a dyno.



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"SUBARU" is a Japanese word meaning "unite," as well as a term identifying a cluster of six stars which the Greeks called the Pleiades -- part of the Taurus constellation. According to Greek mythology, Atlas' daughters turned into this group of stars.

[kepone]

enzo is completely right here..

thats all there is to it, anyone that doesnt believe that can say so now, and ill gladly assault you with an onslaugut of evidence to prove you wrong..

[i_rebel]

Upping the performance ante is definately a good solid move for Acura . . . one that will be embraced by the performance enthusiasts wholeheartedly . . . that is my prediction.

Their Achilles heel is the pricing . . . with such a high ticket the NSX is doomed. It will be added to a few private collections around the world, one or two will be seen in the suburbs and that will be all.
If Acura expects to change the mindsets of the discerning sports car buyer enough to sway potential exoti-car consumers, then commanding a high price is not nearly enough. To make this a positive step, they will have to limit production to about 500 for the first sales year, and let the market dictate the next years production.

I mean really, the NSX was a fantastic car, but only within the last few years has it really come into its own as a potential exoti-car . . . I'm not sure that there are enough consumers ready to drop that much change on an Asian import . . .

Witness the demise of the Supra . . .