5 cars you hate the most

[Jimster]

WTF is wrong with Citroens? If it weren't for Citroens, we'd be driving out dated junk, there'd be no FWD, no radial tyres, no hydraulic suspension, no swivelling headlights, shapes would be hellishly boring, disc brakes would still be only fitted to top of the heap sports cars.... See where I'm heading? They deserve respect for making sure revolution took place, rather than evolution.

[kevinthenerd]

Originally Posted by Jimster

WTF is wrong with Citroens? If it weren't for Citroens, we'd be driving out dated junk, there'd be no FWD, no radial tyres, no hydraulic suspension, no swivelling headlights, shapes would be hellishly boring, disc brakes would still be only fitted to top of the heap sports cars.... See where I'm heading? They deserve respect for making sure revolution took place, rather than evolution.

Ok, radial tires, hydraulic suspension, interesting shapes, and disc brakes are good things, but I'm not so sure I like the idea that everything these days is FWD. While FWD is good in poor traction situations, the whole concept has ruined the modern idea of a performance automobile. Companies are finding out that the general public doesn't know a high performance car from a whole in the ground, and they can get away with badging cheaper FWD cars as sports cars. While some are fun (and quick), a well-designed RWD car will kill them when the roads aren't wet. (Remember when you could get a Nova and drop a naturally aspirated small block in it and, with enough tuning, rule the streets? It takes a lot more money to do the same thing with today's cars.) It seems the average buyer has no concept of weight transfer and balancing and everything else that really matters. Instead, they follow brand loyalities and the boasting of their affluent peers.

[pimprolla112]

I wish idiots would stop saying it cost double the money to make a fwd car as fast as rwd one. Budget drag imports can be done and have been done. Im sure the dsm group can bring light to this. You dont need 10k to make an 11 sec fwd honda. My friend has one he just rebuilt it has a 1.6l, open diff trans, turbo and he ran an 11.7 in the 1/4. Keep in mind he has only spent 3500 for car, turbo setup, and a gsr engine, which now has b-16 internalls. He was running 13.6 NA, and that was with 2000 in the car. Any person who follows the import scene will tell you its not true anymore when you can get a used car for less than 1k, engine swaps for between 500-2500, and turbo setups for 300-to no end. Hell do it cheaper prove them wrong once and use nitrous, you dont need a heavy low revving V8 anymore to run below 12's for under 5k.

[porscheguy9999]

Kia
Deawoo
Suzuki (but I like their motorcycles)
Mercedes C230 Kompressor "Sport Coupe"
Ricers that look like s#!t

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by kevinthenerd

Ok, radial tires, hydraulic suspension, interesting shapes, and disc brakes are good things, but I'm not so sure I like the idea that everything these days is FWD. While FWD is good in poor traction situations, the whole concept has ruined the modern idea of a performance automobile. Companies are finding out that the general public doesn't know a high performance car from a whole in the ground, and they can get away with badging cheaper FWD cars as sports cars. While some are fun (and quick), a well-designed RWD car will kill them when the roads aren't wet. (Remember when you could get a Nova and drop a naturally aspirated small block in it and, with enough tuning, rule the streets? It takes a lot more money to do the same thing with today's cars.) It seems the average buyer has no concept of weight transfer and balancing and everything else that really matters. Instead, they follow brand loyalities and the boasting of their affluent peers.

See, the thing is, in the world outside America, what matters is making your car go around a corner. This is doable with both FWD and RWD, but it's easier and cheaper for the maker to do an FWD one, then tighten it up, set up the chassis for good handling etc (Case in point, VW Golf GTi, Honda Integra Type R, Peugeots GTi/RC/S16 cars).

[kevinthenerd]

Originally Posted by pimprolla112

I wish idiots would stop saying it cost double the money to make a fwd car as fast as rwd one. Budget drag imports can be done and have been done. Im sure the dsm group can bring light to this. You dont need 10k to make an 11 sec fwd honda. My friend has one he just rebuilt it has a 1.6l, open diff trans, turbo and he ran an 11.7 in the 1/4. Keep in mind he has only spent 3500 for car, turbo setup, and a gsr engine, which now has b-16 internalls. He was running 13.6 NA, and that was with 2000 in the car. Any person who follows the import scene will tell you its not true anymore when you can get a used car for less than 1k, engine swaps for between 500-2500, and turbo setups for 300-to no end. Hell do it cheaper prove them wrong once and use nitrous, you dont need a heavy low revving V8 anymore to run below 12's for under 5k.

I love imports like anyone else, but I have a serious problem with FWD. From the very physics of it all, you can't put the power to the ground in a drag race because of rearward weight transfer. 11's are nice, but there's a HUGE difference between running 11's and running 9's. Even with 1400hp, GM's ECOTEC dragsters usually only run 8's. The only thing holding them back (from 7's and 6's) is that they can't hook up like a purpose-built RWD drag car can.

FWD?? Not for me.The Toyota MR2 is one of my favorite cars simply because it has a reliable motor in cheap car, and the setup is almost perfect: light weight, mid-engined, rear wheel drive. It's the best of everything as far as affordable used imports go. The only thing that would have made the car better (and in the supercar handling category with mods) would be if the motor sat lower to the ground with a longitudinal setup like an F1 car. This would provide a lower center of gravity (to get the tranny out from underneath the motor and put it behind it) and a lower polar moment of inertia (with a longer wheelbase to counter it).

My questions about such 11-second Civics, though....

1. How long do such setups last? You have to admit... 800hp out of a four-banger, no matter who makes it, is putting a lot more stress than 800hp on an eight cylinder.

2. Can these cars turn? You can do all you want to the suspension, but you'll never make up for the fact that those cars are front-heavy. Sure, you might be able to outcorner the stock Civic like it's standing still, but there's a good reason why race cars are RWD. (Believe it or not, most aren't required to be.)

If I had to buy a car now with a front engine, I'd get a Miata or an RX7/RX8. I don't even care if your FWD car is faster in a drag... mine will be a LOT more fun to drive, stock-to-stock.

[nikita7]

I recently developed an anger issue with Suburban/Tahoe like SUVs. They take up 2 parking space and impossible to see around on the freeway. And most of the time they are driven by distracted bimbos/soccer moms.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by kevinthenerd

Ok, radial tires, hydraulic suspension, interesting shapes, and disc brakes are good things, but I'm not so sure I like the idea that everything these days is FWD. While FWD is good in poor traction situations, the whole concept has ruined the modern idea of a performance automobile. Companies are finding out that the general public doesn't know a high performance car from a whole in the ground, and they can get away with badging cheaper FWD cars as sports cars. While some are fun (and quick), a well-designed RWD car will kill them when the roads aren't wet. (Remember when you could get a Nova and drop a naturally aspirated small block in it and, with enough tuning, rule the streets? It takes a lot more money to do the same thing with today's cars.) It seems the average buyer has no concept of weight transfer and balancing and everything else that really matters. Instead, they follow brand loyalities and the boasting of their affluent peers.

too bad an old nova would lose to a fwd minivan on a road course.

[Be Good]

Ford SUVS/Minivans
Yukon/Delani
Trailblazer's
Hummer's
Ram's

[Dyno247365]

Umm..damn...hate cars?
1. Scions
2. Miata(sorry, i just don't get it)
3. Barabus(F*** that piece of...*stops and calms down*)
4. 4cyl Vans or trucks
3. Cobalt (IT KILLED THE F-BODY!!)

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

Umm..damn...hate cars?

3. Cobalt (IT KILLED THE F-BODY!!)

yea, on the autocross course. hahaha.

[Dyno247365]

Originally Posted by blakscorpion21

yea, on the autocross course. hahaha.

remember that commercial where the cobalt acts like the corvette's little brother? That wasn't right, it was like they forgot the camaro ever existed.

on another note, there are two 3's.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

remember that commercial where the cobalt acts like the corvette's little brother? That wasn't right, it was like they forgot the camaro ever existed.

on another note, there are two 3's.

wasnt the camaro discontinued by then? they cant advertise for a car no longer in production. plus the cobalt ss was the next sportiest thing to the vette in chevys lineup at the time. lol i thought that was a pretty cool commercial. made me want a cobalt ss.

[Dyno247365]

That was the day that GM took a step back in the performance world.

[98BlackTransAm]

Originally Posted by nikita7

I recently developed an anger issue with Suburban/Tahoe like SUVs. They take up 2 parking space and impossible to see around on the freeway. And most of the time they are driven by distracted bimbos/soccer moms.

amen to that.

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

That was the day that GM took a step back in the performance world.

2002 marked the end of the f-body dynasty