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Old 02-26-2003, 12:41 PM   #46
PhantomDesign
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I dont want to produce this my self (people dont listen well)!!!!

I want a car company to "buy" the design. They'll worry about costs and all other things. I'll collect royalties and buy a few for my self.

If I am to build the design myself, It'll cost in the millions of dollars to do it right (according to further research). I could probably get that money eventually, but that is not my goal!!!

Plus you really have to have someone intelligent to head an operation like this. I have plenty of inteligence, but not enough research. THIS is research right now.

I'm not worried about personal costs of building the car right now since I'm not planning on building it.

I'm not overestimatign market potential. I knwo it'll take a while for someone to buy my design, but I'm a patient person. New supercars dont come out often.

This si mroe a showcase item, to attract attention to my other future designs.
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:32 PM   #47
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Oh, one more thing...probably no more than 50 would be released each year.

Here are some specs I got from Brembo about their Grand Turismo Kit.

Quote:
The Gran Turismo Kit Includes 1 Complete Front Axle Set

2 Four-Piston Cast Aluminum Calipers or 2 Eight-Piston Cast Aluminum Calipers
2 Two-Piece “Floating” Discs or 2 One piece discs
Aircraft Quality Assembly Hardware
Black Anodized Aluminum Mounting Brackets.
Goodridge’s Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines
High Performance Brake Pads
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:26 PM   #48
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Be careful how much you take out of the cars width, not only does that often force things to be mounted higher in the chassis (meaning a higher center of gravity) it increases weight transfer to the outside wheels, pulling traction from the inside ones on a turn. Obviously you need some transfer to the outside so super wide isn't good, but it needs to have a balance.
Double wishbones are nice, but they eat up room like candy, It's definitly the way to go but make sure you keep that in mind, a large reason why the corvette has a large rear is because of the room a good double wishbone setup takes. Plus whether the design needs to use equal length or unequal arms in order to keep the wheel vertical.

Have you chosen what engine you want to use? I don't suppose you'll be making your own design for this specific car, so theres a host of engines you can use to help you choose the size of a car you'll need, those DOHC V12s are monsters.
Body roll is pretty much good for only one thing - telling the driver when he's about to hit the limit. Otherwise, it just decreases from total cornerning traction.

Double wishbones take up a lot of room, but not THAT much room. The gains in cornering offset the decrease in usable space.

"Plus whether the design needs to use equal length or unequal arms in order to keep the wheel vertical."

What does this mean?
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:30 PM   #49
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I've studied physics before, no need to explain. Ground effects though are the most efficent method of down force on a car.

What is CoG?
Why a flat 12? I recieved a suggestion against it earlier.

Indeed. Ground effects involve having lower pressure underneath the car than above it. If there's no turbulence, there's no drag. The atmospheric pressure simply exerts more force (No, I'm not using correct terminology) on the top because the forces at top and bottom don't cancel each other out.
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:32 PM   #50
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Originally posted by Zammo
that might be right

its a ratio of something to something

found in nature roman architechture astrology leonardo davinci's work

there ssomething in that designers know it



CoG = Center of Gravity which will be kept as low as possible hence the flat 12


no link its F1 technology so good luck finding info (may have to design your own)
Flat 12s are NOT F1 technology. They may have once been, but now the teams are using 75-degree (IIRC) V10s.
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:36 PM   #51
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well its been covered

definatly flat 12 to keep CoG down

OK: tibanachi Ratio : (SP?) take that and see if your design incorporates it buy chance if not see if you can incorp it

Y have cams this thing is a monster anyway hell lets go for negative presure nitrogen gas for valve actuation instead of those old friction cams

What is ... ratio and how might you incorporate it? Closest thing I know of is a Fibonnaci sequence.

Negative pressure nitrogen? First off, there's NO such thing as negative pressure. Theoretically, you can have almost zero pressure, but you can't have negative pressure EVER. Now, if you want non-pressure-balanced gas chambers (is that what you are thinking of?) to actuate the valves, how are you going to pick when the valves are to move and when they are to close?
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Old 02-26-2003, 02:39 PM   #52
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BTW, naming astrology as something that "uses" ... doesn't help your case at all.
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Old 02-26-2003, 05:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by 454Casull


Body roll is pretty much good for only one thing - telling the driver when he's about to hit the limit. Otherwise, it just decreases from total cornerning traction.

Double wishbones take up a lot of room, but not THAT much room. The gains in cornering offset the decrease in usable space.

"Plus whether the design needs to use equal length or unequal arms in order to keep the wheel vertical."

What does this mean?
Not always tue, bodyroll provides downward loading of the outside tires, it's one of the benefits solid axle cars in trans am take advantage of, solid axle cars see no camber change from bodyroll either. As to the arm length, in order to keep the wheel vertical some systems require a shorter upper A arm in order to keep the top of the wheel from pushing out away from the car in certain ranges of motion, but thats all in the geometry of the system, and space requirements are very limiting in that sense.

Ales, I seem to have rambled there, i lost track of what i was trying to say I meant that a car with underbody effects & front splitter/rear diffuser would have more drag then a car without those. The front spltter design traps air above the splitters panel or whatever it's called so theres your drag, an underody & diffuser probably wouldn't cause any drag, drag slows air down and both of those are trying to speed it up.
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Old 02-26-2003, 10:07 PM   #54
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Originally posted by 454Casull


Flat 12s are NOT F1 technology. They may have once been, but now the teams are using 75-degree (IIRC) V10s.


not the engine the gas cam actuation

my terminology may have been inccorect

but prsurised nitrogen holds the valves closed while removing that presure makes them open (hence negative) maybe reverse woulda been better suited

and you could regulate it using solenoids to open an close smaller inlet/outlet in the gas chambers
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Old 02-26-2003, 10:13 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by 454Casull
BTW, naming astrology as something that "uses" ... doesn't help your case at all.
shoulda been

Quote:
Originally posted by 454Casull
BTW, naming astronomy as something that "uses" ... doesn't help your case at all.

my bad i was was tired
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:29 AM   #56
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Originally posted by FYRHWK1


Not always tue, bodyroll provides downward loading of the outside tires, it's one of the benefits solid axle cars in trans am take advantage of, solid axle cars see no camber change from bodyroll either. As to the arm length, in order to keep the wheel vertical some systems require a shorter upper A arm in order to keep the top of the wheel from pushing out away from the car in certain ranges of motion, but thats all in the geometry of the system, and space requirements are very limiting in that sense.
Traction VS Vertical load
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Old 02-27-2003, 06:30 AM   #57
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not the engine the gas cam actuation

my terminology may have been inccorect

but prsurised nitrogen holds the valves closed while removing that presure makes them open (hence negative) maybe reverse woulda been better suited

and you could regulate it using solenoids to open an close smaller inlet/outlet in the gas chambers
Sorry, but F1 engines only use pressurized nitrogen to keep the valves closed. Valve opening is strictly controlled by valve springs and camshafts.
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Old 02-27-2003, 09:42 AM   #58
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I suggest you use the term "low pressure"
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:18 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by 454Casull

Traction VS Vertical load
That website misses half the facts about how a car really handles, that kind of graph doesnt take tire type, contact patch size, vehicle weight or anything else into account, body roll DOES add downward loading to the outside tires.
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:44 AM   #60
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Zammo




not the engine the gas cam actuation

my terminology may have been inccorect

but prsurised nitrogen holds the valves closed while removing that presure makes them open (hence negative) maybe reverse woulda been better suited

and you could regulate it using solenoids to open an close smaller inlet/outlet in the gas chambers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sorry, but F1 engines only use pressurized nitrogen to keep the valves closed. Valve opening is strictly controlled by valve springs and camshafts.

seems to be the same thing
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