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Old 07-23-2004, 07:09 PM   #31
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Stock for stock, standard will rule over auto 90% of the time.

Look at most race cars, Indy and IRL both still use manuals, given they are clutchless, but they still HAVE to shift them manaually via a sequential type transmission. F1 cars have the infamous paddle shifter, but are still manual in the sense you have to shift yourself. I can't tell you if these are considered true manuals for any of those cars, they would point to sequential autos in my book, sans the Porsche "TipTronic" shifter system. NASCARS still use 5-speed manual trannies, I know you all have seen their crude looking shifters. Pro Stock dragsters are manual, they have a lever for EACH individual gear that they deperess through the run to enguage each gear. I'm not sure how top-fuelers shift...

So unless you have a re-programmed ECU and/or tranny computer for an auto, manual will still prevale in terms of userability and shift points. But autos can be manipulated even in stock form, to shift at better points if you do the shifting yourself, though it can be hard on the tranny and torque converter. Auto is still the most consistant, and more reliable. Yes it has decreased fuel economy, but not by much, and that's only because of how it shifts as well as the drivetrain power loss, so it requires slightly more power to move the car.

As for faster than standard autos... I know the Porsche ones are slower by a couple tenths, I think Ferrari has equal to manual, automatics. BMW might, but I doubt it since the M3 and M5 models or ANY of the M-series cars they make, ONLY come as manual.
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Old 07-23-2004, 07:12 PM   #32
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So far this thread is becoming a great argument and info packed thread I feel, free of flamage. If we can keep it up that way, I just may have to sticky this for others the find easily.
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i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift

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Old 07-23-2004, 07:31 PM   #33
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Re: racing with a automatic?

lol..good call
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Old 07-24-2004, 04:13 AM   #34
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Re: racing with a automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverY2KCivic
So far this thread is becoming a great argument and info packed thread I feel, free of flamage. If we can keep it up that way, I just may have to sticky this for others the find easily.
That's a good idea actually. On a side note, it's rather rare to see a fun polite arguement here at AF free from flamage. We should all give ourselves a pat on the back, lol.
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Old 07-24-2004, 03:39 PM   #35
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*pat pat*

Now back to business.
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i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift

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Old 07-25-2004, 08:47 PM   #36
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Re: racing with a automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverY2KCivic
*pat pat*

Now back to business.
LOL...
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Old 07-25-2004, 11:00 PM   #37
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Now I'd like someone to post up in here that has GOTTEN an aftermarket T/C installed into their auto tranny (i.e. Level-10, TCI, Artcarr, etc...) that can tell us exactly if and how much it improved their performance by.
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i have yet to see any well done imports around here. most are road toilets driven by some high school punk -Drift

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Old 07-26-2004, 12:13 AM   #38
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Re: racing with a automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverY2KCivic
Now I'd like someone to post up in here that has GOTTEN an aftermarket T/C installed into their auto tranny (i.e. Level-10, TCI, Artcarr, etc...) that can tell us exactly if and how much it improved their performance by.
I know a lot of the Mustang guys with auto's install torque convertors in the auto trannys and see performance increases, though I can't say by how much off the top of my head.

I agree though, anyone who has already done any of this, please post up what you did and how it improved perfomance. I know I plan to have level-10 build up my tranny at some point, but that really doesn't help us much right now, lol.
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Old 07-28-2004, 05:11 AM   #39
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Re: racing with a automatic?

well what the aftermarket torque convertors do is puts them into their powerband quicker. all autos have torque convertors (by the way)

say your powerband starts around 3.5k rpms. you'd want to match a torque convertor with that powerband. you'd take out the (hypothetically) 2600rpm stock torque convertor and install a convertor that is fully engaged at say 3200 (or 3k). that means that by the time you get on the upward curve heading into your powerband, the drivetrain and the transmission are fully engaged.

say you took that same car with the 3500 rpm powerband and left the stock convertor in it. well at 2600rpm that car would be fully engaged leaving you well shy of your powerband (3500rpm) thus effecting your 1/4 times.


now i know what you're saying well geez that's pretty easy.. you just get a convertor that places you nicely into the powerband... of course nothing is easy. the higher the stall on the torque convertor (the rpm in which it is fully engaged) the less mph you theoretically have b/c the transmission to drivetrain is engaged for a less amount of time. for example: lets say the stock convertor is fully engaged at 2600 rpms and lets say that (i'm just pulling numbers outta my arse but you should get the picture) in a quater mile of 14.5 seconds that torque convertor is fully engaged at around 2.1 seconds of that 1/4 time. now the 3200 rmp torque convertor wouldn't be engaged until a higher rpm. that car wouldn't be fully engaged until 2.9 seconds into the 1/4 time thus the top speed at the finish line would be effected.

now of course this is just an over simplification of the setup.. there's a million things that can make that car with a 3200 rpm convertor have faster top mph speeds then the 2600 rpm convertor (suspension, turbo.. turbo size, cam, etc..)



having said that, i'd race (drag race) with autos for consitancy. stick on road (curves and crap) type racing.... and give me an auto as a daily driver. Heck, i like to eat and drive too!
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Old 08-03-2004, 04:59 PM   #40
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Re: Re: Re: racing with a automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx
If a built up stick where so much better, the WRC teams and top fuel draggers would all race built manaul trannys and and not built autos. I was making a point, the same one SilverY2Kcivic made. Not all autos stuck. Just becuase it's an auto doesn't make it bad, it's how it wass built, OEM or otherwise.
WRC teams use built autos?!!
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Old 08-22-2004, 03:32 AM   #41
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Re: racing with a automatic?

no a 7 speed manual will be slower because the driver will have to go through more gears and a human cant shift as fast as a machine. think about drag spec muscle cars....they have like 3-speed auto transmissions and such. heard of B&M? they make parts for auto trannys for drag racing.
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Old 09-13-2004, 09:01 PM   #42
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Re: racing with a automatic?

well i race with a 93 legend LS, auto, dose this have a race sensor?, cause if it dose, i got to 135mph and still no shut off
V6 3.2 Lt 230hp
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Old 09-13-2004, 09:41 PM   #43
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Re: racing with a automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kicker1_solo
Of course a stock auto, a stock anything off the line is going to get beat. Using your money wisely on whatever you have, stick or auto, will win you races.
I have three auto Conquest TSI's and I have not been defeated yet by anything yet. I smoked a 2003 Carrera and a 2002 Vette LT1. Its like he said put your money in mods that work. I have a 1996 Prelude non VTECH SOHC and I wanted to mod it but since it is going to be my 17yo daughter I will only do a little. People from this site has been wonderful on the suggestions they have given me and it is looking great. I will post befor pics and after when it is finished. She saw the new Dark Amethyst color that Dodge has on its 05 vehicles and selected that color. Thanks, Again
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Old 09-18-2004, 02:17 PM   #44
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Re: Re: Re: racing with a automatic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx
On the track an auto is more perdictable, it will NEVER miss a shift, plus a human simply can not outshift a computer. A shift kit and a built up auto is essentially what an SLK has, and it's quikcer than their 5-speed.

If a built up stick where so much better, the WRC teams and top fuel draggers would all race built manaul trannys and and not built autos. I was making a point, the same one SilverY2Kcivic made. Not all autos stuck. Just becuase it's an auto doesn't make it bad, it's how it wass built, OEM or otherwise.
what are yo utalking about...top fule dragsters dont even use trannies...the rear end is the trannie...when you have 6000hp at the wheels and are only traveling for 4-5 seconds gears are pointless... this is why drag racing is an engine tuners sport and not a drivers sport...all the driver has to have is a lead foot and good reaction....
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Old 09-20-2004, 06:06 PM   #45
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Not that any body is going to read this because this thread has gone on too long and started off with bad information, but yea you can make an auto go faster than a manual down a straight line, do you see top fuel dragsters with a clutch pedal???????and i've never heard of an automatic (except that worn out POS you're still driving) miss a shift. but when turning left right whatever (road course) you don't have the control over rpm range (putting it where the power is) try holding your auto at 6k in first gear through a corner, ain't gonna happen, the mechanics of an automatic transmission will take over and shift for you.
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