There really is no point to this.

[mikegee]

Originally Posted by PWMAN

Maybe he just has too many points on his license and didn't want to all out race. You know street racing is automatic license suspension.
And anyway how far did you take it? What did you beat him to like 40 then quit and say you one? LOL, thats a typical ricer. It's not a race unless you hit 100 MPH.

we stopped at 110 and he was one and maybe a half car lenth behind us

[PWMAN]

Originally Posted by mikegee

autotrader says that the 91 accord weighs 2857

Well I pulled those numbers right off autotrader.
Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, 300 pounds isn't going to make up for 85 HP, let alone well over 100 ft/lbs of torque.

He must have started late, just playing catch-up. He didn't notice your were racing until you were several car lengths in front.
Or maybe he missed a shift.

[skrow03GT]

Are you kidding me? That accord runs a 16 second quarter mile! Full size trucks run faster than that. Ive owned a 91 5.0, and at the same time my gf had an accord which I drove sometimes. The Accord is a total DOG compared to a 5.0, you guys must be smoking crack.

[Jared_80]

OK who started this crap??? First of all let me state that I am not a ricer nor a musclehead, I go wkith whatever works period! So with that said let me rub a little reality into your head. First of all the Japs do build more reliable cars, don't beleave me just read any JD power or Edmunds, or Consumers report on avrage they beat us bad in that catagory. Yes it is true that we genraly make our sports cars with more power because the Japs are under a self imposed law stating that they cannot make cars with over 276hp, although they lie a little about their hp specs all the time (the 276hp Supra actualy makes about 320hp on the dyno) (the 276 HP Evo 6 made about 305) so on so forth. So what this boils down to is that American muscle can genraly whoop the Japs in a streight line, but since the Japs have put much more value on their cornering they thrash us there. Just compare the cornering numbers on a Camaro SS to the Evo 8 and you will see what I am saying. I for one prefer handeling over accelaration, so I genraly prefer cars like the 240SX and the RX7, while some people like nothing but a car that will slam you in the back of the seat, and that is your choice but to say that ours are just better is a dumb and unfounded statement. If that were true than Jap cars would have never cought on here to begin with. Just think about it for a second. My dad who grew up with nothing but American muscle his whole life bought a Toyota when gas prices shot up in the early 70's and he has never gone back. (none of them has ever broken down in 30 year of driving that I know of) the first car that I ever drove was an American V8 and the first time that I drove a Toyota I never looked back. I have owned two Toyotas (both of which I loved) and yesterday I started shoping for my third,(only once a Toyota left me on the side of the road and that was after a 55mph collision that totaled both cars!) and untill Detroid builds them BETTER than the Japs I will continue to buy them.

[skrow03GT]

Originally Posted by Jared_80

OK who started this crap??? First of all let me state that I am not a ricer nor a musclehead, I go wkith whatever works period! So with that said let me rub a little reality into your head. First of all the Japs do build more reliable cars, don't beleave me just read any JD power or Edmunds, or Consumers report on avrage they beat us bad in that catagory. Yes it is true that we genraly make our sports cars with more power because the Japs are under a self imposed law stating that they cannot make cars with over 276hp, although they lie a little about their hp specs all the time (the 276hp Supra actualy makes about 320hp on the dyno) (the 276 HP Evo 6 made about 305) so on so forth. So what this boils down to is that American muscle can genraly whoop the Japs in a streight line, but since the Japs have put much more value on their cornering they thrash us there. Just compare the cornering numbers on a Camaro SS to the Evo 8 and you will see what I am saying. I for one prefer handeling over accelaration, so I genraly prefer cars like the 240SX and the RX7, while some people like nothing but a car that will slam you in the back of the seat, and that is your choice but to say that ours are just better is a dumb and unfounded statement. If that were true than Jap cars would have never cought on here to begin with. Just think about it for a second. My dad who grew up with nothing but American muscle his whole life bought a Toyota when gas prices shot up in the early 70's and he has never gone back. (none of them has ever broken down in 30 year of driving that I know of) the first car that I ever drove was an American V8 and the first time that I drove a Toyota I never looked back. I have owned two Toyotas (both of which I loved) and yesterday I started shoping for my third,(only once a Toyota left me on the side of the road and that was after a 55mph collision that totaled both cars!) and untill Detroid builds them BETTER than the Japs I will continue to buy them.

I agree with Jared to a point, if you are looking for a nice reliable grocery getter, nothing beats a cheap import. I find it funny when these import drivers think their econobox is a sports car. Im reffering to cars like Honda/Acuras not Supras/rx7s.

I also notice people tend to compare brand new imports with older generation american cars. Ofcoarse a 5.0 or other american cars built 10+ years ago wont be as reliable as a 2004 import. When making comparisons, you also have to keep in mind the cost of the cars. You cant compare a $50,000 car to a $10,000 car. You have to compare apples to apples, and when you do that you will notice that most new american cars meet or exceed the reliability the japanese cars provide.

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by skrow03GT

I agree with Jared to a point, if you are looking for a nice reliable grocery getter, nothing beats a cheap import. I find it funny when these import drivers think their econobox is a sports car. Im reffering to cars like Honda/Acuras not Supras/rx7s.

I also notice people tend to compare brand new imports with older generation american cars. Ofcoarse a 5.0 or other american cars built 10+ years ago wont be as reliable as a 2004 import. When making comparisons, you also have to keep in mind the cost of the cars. You cant compare a $50,000 car to a $10,000 car. You have to compare apples to apples, and when you do that you will notice that most new american cars meet or exceed the reliability the japanese cars provide.

Yea most young punks think that since they own a Civic or a Sentra, all they need is a cold air intake and crome exaust tip to somke a Stang or Camaro. The truth of the matter is that those Civics that really can take a V8 have thousands of dollars in modifacations, and most likley a really smart builder behind them. But I was comparing apples to apples when I compared the SS to the Evo here are the stats. 2002 Camaro 29k (base), 13.5 1/4 mile 310hp, .87g 200ft skidpad, aprox 3400lbs to the 2004 Evo 28k (base) 13.06 1/4 mile, 271hp, .97g on the 200ft skidpad, 3268lbs. That is as fare a comparison as you can make since they don't build the Camaro anymore, and I wanted to use the camaro since it is faster than the Stang in stock form. If you know of any other under 30k American car that would be a better representitive please let me know. The American cars do not quite match the Japs for reliability yet although they are narrowing the gap every year, in fact the 2002 Camaro/Firebird was above avarage reliability according to JD power, which is quite an accomplishment for an American sportscar and even I would risk the ridicule of my ricer friends to own one. (if only it could tow my boat). One more thing watch out for a few American cars in particular when it comes to reliability, most of the FWDs are particularly bad in this area. (Focus, Cavilar, Neon...ect) (Americans should stick to building RWD anyway we are good at it)

[skrow03GT]

Originally Posted by Jared_80

Yea most young punks think that since they own a Civic or a Sentra, all they need is a cold air intake and crome exaust tip to somke a Stang or Camaro. The truth of the matter is that those Civics that really can take a V8 have thousands of dollars in modifacations, and most likley a really smart builder behind them. But I was comparing apples to apples when I compared the SS to the Evo here are the stats. 2002 Camaro 29k (base), 13.5 1/4 mile 310hp, .87g 200ft skidpad, aprox 3400lbs to the 2004 Evo 28k (base) 13.06 1/4 mile, 271hp, .97g on the 200ft skidpad, 3268lbs. That is as fare a comparison as you can make since they don't build the Camaro anymore, and I wanted to use the camaro since it is faster than the Stang in stock form. If you know of any other under 30k American car that would be a better representitive please let me know. The American cars do not quite match the Japs for reliability yet although they are narrowing the gap every year, in fact the 2002 Camaro/Firebird was above avarage reliability according to JD power, which is quite an accomplishment for an American sportscar and even I would risk the ridicule of my ricer friends to own one. (if only it could tow my boat). One more thing watch out for a few American cars in particular when it comes to reliability, most of the FWDs are particularly bad in this area. (Focus, Cavilar, Neon...ect) (Americans should stick to building RWD anyway we are good at it)

The SS is a great value for what it costs, and it actually comes very underrated from the factory. The 01-02 LS1s actually dyno 320-330rwhp to the wheels. Which is actually ~380hp at the crank considering a 15% drivetrain loss. These things run almost identical times as the Corvette. With a competant driver 01/02 LS1s can run a high 12 sec 1/4 mile in stock showroom floor form. I dont pay much attention to stats found in magazines because I have found them to be false and inconsistant on many occations. Just look at the #s they got for the 03 Cobra, they are ridiculous. In the case of the Evo it is a GREAT performer, and its one of the very few cars I can respect from Japan. You mentioned a 13.06 1/4 mile time, while im not saying thats not possible, when Ive seen them run at the track, they usually pull anywhere between 13.6-14.5 depending on how hard they dump the clutch. But im sure they can out handle the SS, although I dont think it will outhandle the camaro with 1LA, which consists of a Bilstien suspension package. The problem I see with the Evo in terms of sales, is that its essensially a Lancer with more power, and thats how the majority of the population will see it. Believe it or not, we, the performance car enthusiasts, are a small minority in the car market. Cars like the Mustang & Corvette have a long heritage and appeal to a bigger majority including us car nuts. Thats why they have been succesfull for so long. A regular joe shmoe will not go pay $30,000 for a lancer. But he will most likely fork out 21k for a GT, 29k for a cobra, or 50k for the infamous corvette. If you want proof of this, look around on your local streets, try to find how many Evos you see cruising around, Ive never seen one in Dallas, and only saw 1 in Austin when I lived there. Im not talking about the track, just everyday driving. Thats why I think the Evo will not last very long in the US car market.

For me personally, I want a car that has a flat tourqe curve throughout the entire powerband. Turbo 4 bangers can make great power with alot of PSI moving through it, but it wont make real power until it reaches real high rpms (read: S2000). I spend most of my time between 1000-3000 rpm driving on the street, and thats where I want power, aswell as upper rpms. Thats what makes it fun to drive. Unfortunatly a v8+ is the only way to achieve this. For an example, when im launching, I launch off the idle, and feather the gas/clutch. An evo has to burn its clutch, and launch 4000+ rpms, try launching that evo without a clutch dump, and see what kind of times it runs...I will guess 14.5+. Not dissing the Evo, just personal prefference here.


Sorry, went off on a rant!

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by skrow03GT

The SS is a great value for what it costs, and it actually comes very underrated from the factory. The 01-02 LS1s actually dyno 320-330rwhp to the wheels. Which is actually ~380hp at the crank considering a 15% drivetrain loss. These things run almost identical times as the Corvette. With a competant driver 01/02 LS1s can run a high 12 sec 1/4 mile in stock showroom floor form. I dont pay much attention to stats found in magazines because I have found them to be false and inconsistant on many occations. Just look at the #s they got for the 03 Cobra, they are ridiculous. In the case of the Evo it is a GREAT performer, and its one of the very few cars I can respect from Japan. You mentioned a 13.06 1/4 mile time, while im not saying thats not possible, when Ive seen them run at the track, they usually pull anywhere between 13.6-14.5 depending on how hard they dump the clutch. But im sure they can out handle the SS, although I dont think it will outhandle the camaro with 1LA, which consists of a Bilstien suspension package. The problem I see with the Evo in terms of sales, is that its essensially a Lancer with more power, and thats how the majority of the population will see it. Believe it or not, we, the performance car enthusiasts, are a small minority in the car market. Cars like the Mustang & Corvette have a long heritage and appeal to a bigger majority including us car nuts. Thats why they have been succesfull for so long. A regular joe shmoe will not go pay $30,000 for a lancer. But he will most likely fork out 21k for a GT, 29k for a cobra, or 50k for the infamous corvette. If you want proof of this, look around on your local streets, try to find how many Evos you see cruising around, Ive never seen one in Dallas, and only saw 1 in Austin when I lived there. Im not talking about the track, just everyday driving. Thats why I think the Evo will not last very long in the US car market.

For me personally, I want a car that has a flat tourqe curve throughout the entire powerband. Turbo 4 bangers can make great power with alot of PSI moving through it, but it wont make real power until it reaches real high rpms (read: S2000). I spend most of my time between 1000-3000 rpm driving on the street, and thats where I want power, aswell as upper rpms. Thats what makes it fun to drive. Unfortunatly a v8+ is the only way to achieve this. For an example, when im launching, I launch off the idle, and feather the gas/clutch. An evo has to burn its clutch, and launch 4000+ rpms, try launching that evo without a clutch dump, and see what kind of times it runs...I will guess 14.5+. Not dissing the Evo, just personal prefference here.


Sorry, went off on a rant!

There is no denying that the Z28 and SS were great cars for the money, but I have never heard of one that can do the 600ft slolom at over 71mph. That is faster than any Vette ever made. If you look at Motor Trend they say that the 02 SS does the 1/4 in 13.5, now I am not saying that it is not possable to do it any better but they have pretty good drivers there. In fact they were the ones who got that Evo to 13.06. Yea I know that the Evos lanuch is based on how harsh you are on the clutch, and that the stock cluch is not as good as it should be, but all in all I still say that the Evo is a top of the line car. As far as how many of them are around I don't know about in Texas, but even in po-dunk south Mississippi there are several real Evos running around. (plus a few wannabees with body kits) Plus you gatta consider that they have only been out for less than a year now, give them a little time to catch on. By the way the Evo spools up (making its full 19psi of boost) at only 3000RPM so you don't have to run redline to get decent power like with the NA 4 bangers. You do have a point about the NA V8s great low end power, but on the track that does not matter and that is where the Evo seemes to shine the brightest.

[skrow03GT]

Agreed.

By the way, I would expect them to have a much better time with the Evo than a tourqey RWD anyday. AWD are MUCH easier to launch, takes alot of the guesswork & practice out of the launch. Unlike launching...my car lol. I cant control the wheel spin. My 1-2 shift gets me almost sideways no matter what rpm I shift at. Feels like I lose .3 sec just in that shift. 2-3 shift kicks the back out also, and loses more time by spinning the tires more. This was my experience on street tires, and the drag radials make a huge difference, which showed in my times. I went from a 13.9 to 13.4. Not bad, still has more in it.

[Jared_80]

So this whole import vs. domsestic thing really is a bunch of crap. If you love hairpin turns, brain jarring breaking, and don't mind a 1/2 second lag on accelaration, go import. If you want instant power, and a flat torque curve from idel to redline, and don't mind having to slow down a little in the corners go American Iron. Both do a great job at what they are built for and the Americans are starting to catch up with the Japs in reliability, and fuel efficency. But whatever you do don't buy one of those wannabe jap cars, the Kias are crap, and the American built jap wanabees are below par (except for the SRT-4). And for Pete's sake if you do go American GET A RWD!

[1965PontiacGTO]

I tell you what, American cars aren't what they used to be but nobody can deny the American muscle cars from the 60's and 70's being better than the japanese stuff unless you like inline-4's for some reason . So if power and styling doesn't matter to you you most likely own a japanese car.

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by 1965PontiacGTO

I tell you what, American cars aren't what they used to be but nobody can deny the American muscle cars from the 60's and 70's being better than the japanese stuff unless you like inline-4's for some reason . So if power and styling doesn't matter to you you most likely own a japanese car.

What planet do you live on? Have you even seen an RX7 or a 350Z? Are you trying to tell me that that is not styling? Granted the late 60's cars had a certain look to them that was haunting, but to say that the R390 was not a piece of art on wheels is insanity. You have probably never seen a Toyota GT1 have you? Do you know what an NSX is? And what is wrong with four cylinders?? If I am making more HP and more torque out of a 2.0 than your 5.7, where is the disadvantage? A few years ago I compared the Evo 6 to the Z28, and the Evo 6 had not only more HP but more low end torque too!!! All in a lighter car with much better traction and AWD! Take your narrow minded crap and go argue with those idiot ricers. You know the ones that think that they have V4s and think that turbos make forced injection. You will have no trouble finding your mindless arguments in there.

[skrow03GT]

Originally Posted by Jared_80

So this whole import vs. domsestic thing really is a bunch of crap. If you love hairpin turns, brain jarring breaking, and don't mind a 1/2 second lag on accelaration, go import. If you want instant power, and a flat torque curve from idel to redline, and don't mind having to slow down a little in the corners go American Iron. Both do a great job at what they are built for and the Americans are starting to catch up with the Japs in reliability, and fuel efficency. But whatever you do don't buy one of those wannabe jap cars, the Kias are crap, and the American built jap wanabees are below par (except for the SRT-4). And for Pete's sake if you do go American GET A RWD!

Umm, I dont slow down for turns?? And I have awsome braking...and I have no lag on power either.

[skrow03GT]

Oh yea, and I get 24mpg in the city too, & never had any reliability issues. There is something that my car can do that no import ever can...sound good! It has balls

[1965PontiacGTO]

What planet do you live on? Have you even seen an RX7 or a 350Z? Are you trying to tell me that that is not styling? Granted the late 60's cars had a certain look to them that was haunting, but to say that the R390 was not a piece of art on wheels is insanity. You have probably never seen a Toyota GT1 have you? Do you know what an NSX is? And what is wrong with four cylinders?? If I am making more HP and more torque out of a 2.0 than your 5.7, where is the disadvantage? A few years ago I compared the Evo 6 to the Z28, and the Evo 6 had not only more HP but more low end torque too!!! All in a lighter car with much better traction and AWD! Take your narrow minded crap and go argue with those idiot ricers. You know the ones that think that they have V4s and think that turbos make forced injection. You will have no trouble finding your mindless arguments in there.

first of all, I know all the cars you are talking about, R390, GT-one, nsx etc.(to be honest the best look I've had at a GT1 is from Gran Turismo 3)
second the GTO is 6.5 not 5.7, the new GTO is 5.7.
third how much hp does your 2.0 make?, I guarantee that the engine on my 69' makes plenty more.
forth I agree with you that the R390 is a beautiful automobile and that japanese cars aren't without, their charms, but you have to admit the GT-one looks a little wierd doesn't it? I'm not like those bloody idiots you are refering to, I have had conversations with them and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. That is funny that they think they have v-4's, isn't it. back to subject no matter how much it seems like I am, I'm not trying to offend you, im sorry if i did.