Is the Chevelle 454 LS6 the fastest Muscle Car?

[mkent]

Hey Guys,

I saw the thread started about the fastest muscle car. Good topic, but I think the answer isn't too far away.


Looks like the guys at Dream Car Garage created a Muscle Car Shootout that is airing on SPEED and the Chevelle 454 LS6 was one of their entrants.

Check it out at www.dreamcargarage.com.


Click on the hotspot on the homepage for more info!

Do you guys think anything was left out?

Here is all the info on the shootout

[MrPbody]

The answer depends on how "muscle car" is defined. In the pure form, you're about right. The '70 Chevelle with the 450 horse 454 is a MONSTER! Others will counter with the Hemi Dart, but a Dart is a compact, not intermediate. There's also an arguement to be made for a hemi-powered B-body. With traction (not present with stock tires), hemis are pretty hard to beat. And if low-production cars are to be considered, there's the '69 Ram Air V GTO. Rare as hell (about 20 made), but bad-ass! (11s with just tires)
But in general, the BB Chevelle with rectangular port heads was very tough to beat with anything else...

[nhstiger75]

The Chevelle 454 was one of the fastest muscle cars. Of course I'll counter that with a Hemi Cuda/Charger/RoadRunner but in all honesty the Chevelle 454 will run with them if not beat them assuming you're talking about factory setup.

[Musclecar Freak!]

When ever you find a site that has the top fastest musclecars of all time, the Chevelle isn't first. On those sites with the top fastest musclecars, the LS6 was tested with a four speed and 3.55 gears and it pulled a 13.12 in the quartermile. The LS6 is one of my personal favorites, thats why I'm here to back it up on why It should be the quickest musclecar of all time. Quartermile tests show that the LS6 Chevelle never dipped in 12's on stock tires. The reason of this is that the horsepower/torque ratio was so great in the LS6 that they could never get street tires to stick, they always spun. This car also weighed 4050 pounds, very heavy. I think that someone should test an LS6 with 4.10 gears, the M-22 Rockcrusher, and have the balls to turn 6 grand. I think they should really get some smoke goin on to heat the tires up really good like maybe 2 or 3 burnouts. If the right driver has the guts and risks the 6100 rpm shiftpoint before shiftin, you might pull a 12.9. Alotta guys don't redline because they think the radiator hose is gonna bust or is gonna throw a rod but they need to get high R's so when they shift, the drop down is right in that 450 horse range. I think if they do a good test like that with the car they will make better than a 13.12.

[Cryo boy]

I think that the chevelle will win the shootout. thats all i gotta say

[tim1950]

The Boss 429 "Must stank" I mean Mustang won. OH WELL! being a die hard Chevy man, I was disappointed.

[MrPbody]

Yup, they gave it to the Mustang. BUT... Mustangs aren't muscle cars. They're "pony cars". The TV show was fun to watch, but wasn't a straight-up comparison. The Chevelle showed about right. The Olds and Buick were "special" models with enhanced production engines. The GTO was severley handicapped by 50-plus cubes and one year shy of the best handling GTO. The Dodge was ill before it ever got off the trailer, and the Rambler was just there to make a point.
Had they used the real muscle cars from Ford, Dodge and Rambler, they would not have been in the running. A Torino Cobra or Cyclone GT with the 429 SCJ would have been the best Fords, and the B-bodies should have been represented in the MOPAR group. A Hemi or even a 440 Magnum in a GTX was a HANDFUL! Those cars were VERY quick in street trim. The same can be said for Roadrunner and Charger. I remember the TV commercials for the '70 Super Bee "6-Pack". It was guarenteed to run 12s or your money back! The only Rambler would have been the Rebel "Machine", but that car wouldn't get out of it's own way...

[DGB454]

They left out many vehicles that should have been included.

[nova68]

i mean if they run special engines on other cars then yenko cars should be allowed!!

[Partizan_]

Originally Posted by nova68

i mean if they run special engines on other cars then yenko cars should be allowed!!

If the Yenko is allowed then the LZ1 must be also...

i quote musclecars.com..

"Specially designed to compete in the NHRA Super Stock drag classes, Chevrolet made it an option under the COPO system (code 9560). The cars began as SS396/375bhp Camaros with the F41 suspension. The SS trim and engine were deleted, and the 427 engine, cowl-induction hood, front disc brakes, a choice of heavy duty 4 speed transmissions or Turbo Hydra-matic, and a 4:10 posi axle were added. But instead of the regular iron-block and head L72 found in the dealer installed Camaros, the ZL1 sported aluminum heads and the first aluminum block ever made by Chevrolet. It shared the L88 aluminum head/iron block's engine rating of 430 bhp but made closer to 500 bhp -- making it probably the most powerful engine Chevrolet ever offered to the public. And the engine weighed just 500 pounds, the same as Chevy's 327 small block. The car was blessed with a 5 year/50,000 mile warranty and was fully street legal. With factory exhausts and tires, it turned low 13s; with headers and slicks, it could turn 11.6s @ 122mph. This was the fastest car ever produced by Chevrolet. Performance had its price -- $4,160 for the ZL1 engine alone pushing the price of the Camaro ZL1 to an unbelieveable $7,200 (about double the price for a SS396 Camaro). Chevy needed to build 50 to qualify the car for racing, and in the end built 69 Camaros and 2 Corvettes with the ZL-1 engine. Their high price made them difficult to sell and at least 12 engines were removed and about 30 cars were returned back to Chevrolet. It took until the early 1970s to sell them all. One can only wonder what they are worth today."

[MrPbody]

Yup, and if Yenko and ZL-1 are allowed, so must Ram Air V. Or maybe even a couple Royal Bobcats. The '69 428 car was clocked in the low 12s on street tires. And there was always the Motion Performance crowd... Phase III Camaros were down right NASTY! What if we put slicks on all of them? Who would get it then? WIDE OPEN!!!
Aren't "what ifs" fun? If slicks were allowed, and cars were tuned right, BEFORE the race, I would have to go with the Hemis, as much as I like GM cars. But racing and "street racing" are two completely different animals. My Judge wasn't much at the track (mid-13s when stock), but it ate up the vast majority on the street. My older sister always said it was because I would let it all hang out EVERY race, and others would hold back. I'm not so sure... A Ram Air GTO from a 20 MPH roll could be lethal.

[balls_to_the_wall]

Well...if they just wanted one of the fastest cars made in the 60's early 70's...a hemi dart would have made their day...10.3 on contemporary rubber, and now they are breaking into the 8 second zone.

[tim1950]

Muscle Car Definition

Introduction:

Perhaps the most common question people have is what exactly is a muscle car. The term wasn't even used until the late 1970s, in the 1960s there were often called "Super Cars" if called anything at all. Therefore, the actual definition of a muscle car, or which models were muscle cars, is a topic that is often disputed. Here is the general interpretation of what is a muscle car and what cars qualify, and which don't.


Vehicle
Muscle Car?
Classification
Notes
AMC AMX
Yes
Pony Car
Even though it only has two seats, because it is based on the Javalin, it is a muscle car
AMC Javalin
No
Pony Car
Only the AMX variation or big block V8s are considered muscle cars
Buick GS
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Based on Buick Skylark
Buick Riviera
No
Personal Luxury Car
Too expensive and big
Buick Skylark (non-GS)
No
Intermediate Car
Only GS versions are considered muscle cars
Buick Wildcat
No
Fullsize Car
Too large
Chevrolet Camaro
Yes
Pony car
Only SS and Z28 models are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle SS
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle (non-SS)
No
Intermediate
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Corvette
No
Sports Car
The two seats, fiberglass body, and high price make it a sports car.
Chevrolet Impala SS
Yes
Fullsize Muscle Car
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
No
Personal Luxury
Too expensive
Chevrolet Nova
Yes
Compact Car
Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chrysler 300 Letter Cars
No
Personal Luxury
Way too expensive and luxurious
Dodge Challenger
Yes
Pony Car
Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Charger
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Coronet
Yes
Fullsize Muscle Car
Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Dart
Yes
Compact
Only Darts with 383 or 440 engines are considered muscle cars
Dodge Daytona
Yes
Specialty Muscle Cars
-
Dodge Super Bee
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Ford Fairlane / Torino GT/Cobra
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
Only GT and Cobra models are considered muscle cars
Ford Galaxie
Yes
Fullsize muscle
Only Galaxies with 390 engines or larger are considered muscle cars
Ford Mustang
Yes
Pony Car
GTs, Mach 1's and Boss Mustangs are considered muscle cars
Mercury Comet / Cyclone
Yes
Intermediate
Only GTs and Cyclones are considered muscle cars
Mercury Cougar
Yes
Pony Car
Only GTs, Eliminators, and Boss engine models are considered muscle cars
Oldsmobile 442
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Oldsmobile Cutlass
No
Intermediate
Only 442 models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth Barracuda
No
Pony car
Only 'Cuda models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth 'Cuda
Yes
Pony car
'Cudas with 340s are generally not considered muscle cars
Plymouth Duster
Yes
Compact Muscle Car
Only Dusters with 340s are considered muscle cars
Plymouth GTX
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Plymouth Road Runner
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
-
Plymouth Superbird
Yes
Specialty Muscle Car
-
Pontiac Catalina 2+2
Yes
Fullsize Muscle Car
Only Catalinas with 400+ cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Firebird
Yes
Pony Car
Only Firebirds with 400 cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Grand Prix
No
Personal Luxury
Too expensive
Pontiac GTO
Yes
Intermediate Muscle Car
The first true muscle car

Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:

A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.

Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO

Fullsize Muscle Car:

The strict definition only includes intermediate size vehicles. In reality, performance oriented intermediate size vehicles didn't appear until 1964. Before then, manufacturers took existing fullsize vehicles and added extra performance to them. Because of this, the early fullsize performance vehicles are generally considered muscle cars.

Examples: Chevrolet Impala (SS only), Ford Galaxie (with 390 + cid engines only), Dodge Coronet (R/Ts only), etc.

Pony Cars and Compact Cars:

In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.

Examples: Chevrolet Camaro (SS and Z28 models only), Ford Mustang (GTs and Boss only), Plymouth 'Cudas (no Barracudas), AMC Javelin, etc.

Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:

Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.

Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, Monte Carlo etc.

Two Seat Sports Cars:

Two seat sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird are not considered muscle cars due to their high price and specialty nature. The only exception is the AMC AMX as it was relatively cheap, and was based on the AMC Javalin pony car.

Examples: AMC AMX, etc.

All material © Copyright 2003 by Musclecarclub.com

[huckleberrydude]

I guess a muscle car has to be old?
My dead stock Z06 runs 12.1

[1966ChevelleSS]

Actually according to the Muscle Car Guide the 66 shelby cobra 427 is the fastest muscle car. But the Ls6 is still fast