2006 Monte Carlo

[drunken monkey]

american automotive industry.
let's see, MY condensed version of it.

three big companies make various versions of the same car (respective to each company) and sell them under different banners offering the illusion of choice between different quality/class vehicles (using what-ever's left of brand image of said sub-brands) whereas the reality is that they are ALL cheap pieces of tat.

how's that?
and before any response is given, might i just like to remind you of the Chevywoo Matiz.
is that an example of the ingenuity of american car company bosses?

[ec437]

140??? That's it? From 300+ horsepower? What the hell is up with that?

[gonenuts15792]

I know now why I haven't visited these forums. Nobody knows the facts, about anything. it should be called importforums.com every american car is evil and if you happen to be a fan or support an american car company you're evil.

[drunken monkey]

or maybe it's because you don't have a sense of humour?

anyway.
you can be a fan of what-ever you want.
no one has ever argued that.
you just have to be aware that being an ardent fan involves some defending some time or other and if you're not prepared to, or even unable to defend that support, then maybe you should ask yourself why you can't.
in my opinion, being a fan of a brand is a bit daft.
it equates to kids trying/wanting to own the best of what ever there is. even if what their chosen alliegence doesn't produce the best, it is still the best.... (think super nintendo/sega megadrive, PS2/Dreamcube/X-box etc etc).
me?
i like individual cars from who ever makes them.
i am not a fan of whatever brand (but i am aware of the relelvance of a brand), i am a fan of cars. brand doesn't mean much beyond who makes it.
i mean, if cadillac ever made a car that is on par with a 360, i'd be fan of that car.

what we're doing here, is pointing to the bad things that we see from the pics of the car as mentioned in the title of the thread.
if you actually bother to read, you'd see that we do the same to whatever car is put up for discussion.

[crayzayjay]

Character..... That was a good one

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by gonenuts15792

I know now why I haven't visited these forums. Nobody knows the facts, about anything. it should be called importforums.com every american car is evil and if you happen to be a fan or support an american car company you're evil.

No, we know the facts, you just don't want to accept them. Believe it or not, GM can do wrong, in fact most of the time they do wrong. Drunken Monkey was spot on about the American automotive industry as well, that's more or less all it does, while every now and then bringing in a model from overseas and giving it the Amiercan badge engineering treatment (Cadillac Catera, Chevrolet Aveo, Dodge Colt, Pontiac GTO, Ford Contour, need I go on?)

I'm perfectly aware of the American Auto industry, I usually wind up in America at least once every 18 months, whether it be business or pleasure, I've had to put up with Rental cars made by the US "Big three" that have constantly been below par, I've driven cars belonging to family members there (Yes, my old man was born in America, so don't try and give me any "You're anti American" bullshit) and at the end of the day, of the cars on sale in America by the big three I've probably driven about a good 65-70% of them, so I think I'm more than qualified enough to talk about the American auto industry, thanks for playing though.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by Jimster

No, we know the facts, you just don't want to accept them. Believe it or not, GM can do wrong, in fact most of the time they do wrong. Drunken Monkey was spot on about the American automotive industry as well, that's more or less all it does, while every now and then bringing in a model from overseas and giving it the Amiercan badge engineering treatment (Cadillac Catera, Chevrolet Aveo, Dodge Colt, Pontiac GTO, Ford Contour, need I go on?)

I'm perfectly aware of the American Auto industry, I usually wind up in America at least once every 18 months, whether it be business or pleasure, I've had to put up with Rental cars made by the US "Big three" that have constantly been below par, I've driven cars belonging to family members there (Yes, my old man was born in America, so don't try and give me any "You're anti American" bullshit) and at the end of the day, of the cars on sale in America by the big three I've probably driven about a good 65-70% of them, so I think I'm more than qualified enough to talk about the American auto industry, thanks for playing though.

The Cadillac Catera is no longer made. Cadillac now has a rwd CTS built on its own chassis shared with the new Cadillac STS and SRX.

Have you noticed that MG Rover is dead? Didn't they badge engineer?

Notice the trouble Fiat has now. GM has to pay them $2 billion. Mercedes-Benz lost around $1 billion in the first quarter this year. VW lost over $1 billion in North America last year. They were just fined over $1 million recently.

check here

VW fined

The UAW, pensions, and insurance costs are helping Ford and GM. Some workers get paid $20 per hour to do basic work that just about anyone could do.

http://www.uaw.org/

Ford, GM, and Chrysler aren't the only current American automobile companies. Panoz makes sports cars in Georigia and Saleen builds a supercar, the S7.

Panoz sports car

Saleen S7 and S7R

[drunken monkey]

and your point is?

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type

The Cadillac Catera is no longer made. Cadillac now has a rwd CTS built on its own chassis shared with the new Cadillac STS and SRX.

Have you noticed that MG Rover is dead? Didn't they badge engineer?

Notice the trouble Fiat has now. GM has to pay them $2 billion. Mercedes-Benz lost around $1 billion in the first quarter this year. VW lost over $1 billion in North America last year. They were just fined over $1 million recently.

check here

VW fined

The UAW, pensions, and insurance costs are helping Ford and GM. Some workers get paid $20 per hour to do basic work that just about anyone could do.

http://www.uaw.org/

Ford, GM, and Chrysler aren't the only current American automobile companies. Panoz makes sports cars in Georigia and Saleen builds a supercar, the S7.

Panoz sports car

Saleen S7 and S7R

I know very well that the Catera is not produced, I was giving it as a historical example

MG-Rover died because they were run by ignorant, elitist and arrogant drop kicks that thought the British and those in the colonies were so patriotic to HRH, that they'd buy a Rover 213 SL, MG Maestro or an Austin Allegro even though they were complete and utter crap. They never listened to the customers and went bust. What has that got to do with GM? Well I actually see GM about where BMC was in the mid 70's and if they don't watch out the Japanese are going to steam roll them.

As for FIAT, as someone who used to work for them, I can tell you it's certainly no surprise that Fiat have fallen to where they are today, thier accounting policies are shockingly untidy and the other part is due to letting quality control slip after the Uno came out, but that's also got only a tiny bit to do with this conversation.

Wow, you talk as if GM, Ford and Chrysler have never had financial problems recently. GM's shares havew shed 74% (You read that right, 74%) since 2000, that's wiped $56 billion off the value of the company.

Ford has reported heavy losses over the years and has recently lost its Number two position to Toyota.

Chrysler had to be rescued by Daimler Benz, for they were on the verge of going bankrupt and do not appear to have recovered from the losses.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Of course I know about the financial troubles of Ford Motor Company and GM. I've researched this unlike many people on these forums.

[drunken monkey]

and why do you feel the need to question the knowledge of other people on the forums?

[Jaguar D-Type]

For example, notice the statement that the Chevy Cobalt was just a restyled Cavalier in this same forum.

[gonenuts15792]

OK Jimster, you know it all, GM is evil GM is bad, they make no good cars, either does Ford or Chrysler. Oh wait you like Chrysler (Jeep), don't know why they rank at below average on all the reliability and quality surveys but yet where is GM on those, oh that's right they seem to be near the top part of the chart on most of those. So yup Jimster, you're right, GM can't do anything right. Wake up, you tell me I can't accept facts when it's obvious you can't either, or you just don't bother to look things up.

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by gonenuts15792

OK Jimster, you know it all, GM is evil GM is bad, they make no good cars, either does Ford or Chrysler. Oh wait you like Chrysler (Jeep), don't know why they rank at below average on all the reliability and quality surveys but yet where is GM on those, oh that's right they seem to be near the top part of the chart on most of those. So yup Jimster, you're right, GM can't do anything right. Wake up, you tell me I can't accept facts when it's obvious you can't either, or you just don't bother to look things up.

I actually don't mind Fords newer vehicles, they're certainly better than the rubbish being churned out by GM (Well certainly the Five Hundred is, as is the Focus). GM's American division make three good cars- The Corvette, XLR and the CTS and even then the CTS is ugly and the Vette and CTS have cheap interiors, the XLR could, for all I know, but I have yet to drive one.

Also why do you think that the car which has the pins holding in the floormat break or the ashtray fall out the least means it's the better car? (Yes that's what many Americans deem to be a "fault" on thier car) A Lotus Elise or a TVR T350C is built worse than a Mustang V6, but does that make the Mustang a better car? Nope, not at all.

I can accept the facts, I KNOW the facts, I've worked in the industry before, I've had to deal with customer complaints about cars, I know that the reliability surveys are a crock as a result, according to reliability surveys a piece of plastic trim falling off is just as serious as the engine seizing up, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, don't even get me started on the elasticity of reliability (curtis73 actually gives a fantastic explanation of this). You on the other hand, are just some kid that THINKS he knows everything and I'm sure you would in your ideal world.

Look mate, you live in a free country, so do I, you are quite entitled to think GM is the all-conquering god, just don't expect everybody to think the same way, because they are free to differ.

[Jaguar D-Type]

The new rwd Cadillac STS is a nice luxury car.