Jump Wire Solenoid/Starter Terminals 93 TranSport 3.8 L

[tinkering]

1993 Pontiac TranSport 3.8 L

I am out of town. My family is having intermittent starter failure. Last winter we were having what seemed like an ignition switch problem; it was so cold the switch would hardly turn and when it did the starter would sometimes not energize until after trying it a few times. When the weather warmed, it seemed to be OK again. Maybe it is the switch, maybe it is the solenoid?

This time the weather is fine but sometimes it would turn over and sometimes not (intermittent). They said that sometimes they heard a slight grinding sound while the starter worked... Anyway now it isn't engaging at all. There is no starter/solenoid sound at all when the key is turned to the start position. There is battery power; all the lights and buzzers and bells are ring ding blinging. The lights, and noise makers do not seem to be affected when the switch goes to the start position (open circuit).

I got them to:
1. Clean and tighten the battery terminals, and charge it up.
2. Jiggle the ignition switch around real good while holding it in the start position (loose contacts).
3. Move the tilt steering around while holding the key in the start position (broken wire).
4. Run the gear shift through it's positions while holding the switch on start (neutral switch).
5. Tap on the starter (very difficult to reach under there) while holding the ignition switch on start position (solenoid contacts).

My idea now is to access the solenoid terminals so they can put a 12volt jumper wire feed to the ignition switch terminal.
Is that a radiator air deflector that is blocking access to the starter underneath the vehicle; that plastic cover? Are all the fasteners accessible from underneath? It is hard to guide and direct the work being done on this thing without being able to see it (I don't have a cellphone camera here). Can you tell me how it comes off?

When they gain access to the solenoid, will it be possible to clip a remote starter switch between the battery cable terminal and the ignition switch terminal to see if it is a switch feed problem?

I am looking forward to your input as soon as possible. The van needs to be off the front street in two days to make way for the street cleaners. The hard nosed donkeys in city hall are threatening to tow all the vehicles that are in the way, rather than go around them. Isn't that compassionate of them

[Tech II]

If they can see the purple wire connection to the starter solenoid, and attach a test light to it, then turn the key to crank...if the test light lights, then they need a starter.......

If it doesn't light, then the next option is a remote starter between the starter and the battery.....

[tinkering]

Originally Posted by Tech II

If they can see the purple wire connection to the starter solenoid, and attach a test light to it, then turn the key to crank...if the test light lights, then they need a starter.......

If it doesn't light, then the next option is a remote starter between the starter and the battery.....

I will have them pull that molded plastic shroud off of there and hopefully the purple wire is accessible. If they don't have another test light there (I have it here) I will ask them to go straight to the remote starter switch between the battery and the purple wire. Thanks
How many wires should there be on the solenoid?

[Tech II]

On the solenoid, just the purple wire.......only other wires is the junction on the starter where the positive battery cable is(along with any fuseable links)....

[tinkering]

It is very crowded in the cubby hole where the starter lives. He could only reach the purple wire with the ends of his two fingers; the purple wire terminal was hidden above the solenoid, so he couldn't get the remote starter switch lead clipped on it. I am not sure if it would have been possible to stab the short section of the purple wire up in there (if he would have had a test light). He said a lot of stuff would have to be moved to get that starter out of there, so we called a tow truck to get it away from the street sweeping ticket towing Bolsheviks, and into the back yard. It will wait there unfettered until I can get my hands on it. I really suspect that starter, with the comments about intermittent operation, and that reported 'grinding' noise.

[LMP]

Well...it'S more than 20 years with this TS now and I never had to go to the starter...so no hands on experience .
Just in case...and you pribably have all of this...but..just in case.
www.avigex.ca/xport/starterdiagram.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/starterdiagnosis.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/starterlocation.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/startersolenoid.jpg

I remember a case on this forum where corrosion on the main 12V connector on the starter (black 12V from battery) was the culprit.

About "grinding sound".....can you record it with the "video " mode on your camera?..the post it ? There is the classic GM grinding teeth sound....or there is the solenoid "rattle" due to faulty contact.... which is which ?

[tinkering]

Originally Posted by LMP

Well...it'S more than 20 years with this TS now and I never had to go to the starter...so no hands on experience .
Just in case...and you pribably have all of this...but..just in case.
www.avigex.ca/xport/starterdiagram.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/starterdiagnosis.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/starterlocation.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/startersolenoid.jpg

I remember a case on this forum where corrosion on the main 12V connector on the starter (black 12V from battery) was the culprit.

About "grinding sound".....can you record it with the "video " mode on your camera?..the post it ? There is the classic GM grinding teeth sound....or there is the solenoid "rattle" due to faulty contact.... which is which ?

I don't think that starter has ever been changed; it's a 93 that 20+ years. That's not bad.
Thanks for the diagrams and flow chart; I did not have these.
I won't be able to get back to work on the TS until the fall likely. I will have to show my son how to trouble shoot the circuit/change the change the starter at that time. He couldn't get his hands in there to yank the connections around like I hoped was possible.

I won't be able to video 'the grind' until then.
Unfortunately I did not hear 'the grind' first hand so it is still up in the air.
I will try to remember to post some of these things as I get into it.

These TS vans were good vehicles in many ways.
Thanks a bunch!

[500hpgtx]

I had starting issues with both of our 3800 cars. Our 95 Transport went to 160K miles and 18 years before solenoid trouble. I replaced the starter and the solenoid. We do many local trips, a lot of engine starting.
I am impressed by a company called Quality built. I bought the starter for both my grand prix and our van on Amazon from this company.

[tinkering]

Originally Posted by 500hpgtx

I had starting issues with both of our 3800 cars. Our 95 Transport went to 160K miles and 18 years before solenoid trouble. I replaced the starter and the solenoid. We do many local trips, a lot of engine starting.
I am impressed by a company called Quality built. I bought the starter for both my grand prix and our van on Amazon from this company.

Do you remember any of the R and R details like what and how much stuff has to be pulled to make room to get the starter out of there? I can't get my hands on it or see what it actually looks like but I could talk a guy through it.

[500hpgtx]

1. Disconnect battery 12v + pos cable

2. Jack up vehicle

3. remove small plastic flex plate cover(flywheel) 2 small bolt screws

4. remove main heavy starter cable from starter.

5. Remove 2 large bolts holding in starter. Starter will be able to
be removed, but tilt starter to gain access to small wires at solenoid

6. Remove small wires at solenoid

reverse directions to install new starter.

Not a hard job, but the starter is a little heavy to hold up while
doing the job. Hope this helps..good luck

Hope this helps

[tinkering]

Originally Posted by 500hpgtx

1. Disconnect battery 12v + pos cable

2. Jack up vehicle

3. remove small plastic flex plate cover(flywheel) 2 small bolt screws

4. remove main heavy starter cable from starter.

5. Remove 2 large bolts holding in starter. Starter will be able to
be removed, but tilt starter to gain access to small wires at solenoid

6. Remove small wires at solenoid

reverse directions to install new starter.

Not a hard job, but the starter is a little heavy to hold up while
doing the job. Hope this helps..good luck

Hope this helps

Thanks for taking the time to lay that out. It might not be as tough a job as the young one figured.

[tinkering]

Originally Posted by tinkering

Thanks for taking the time to lay that out. It might not be as tough a job as the young one figured.

I got the starter changed out, and the old girl is running again!

The purple wire had power from the ignition switch; the ignition switch is good. I put the remote starter switch to the purple wire terminal while clobbering the starter... it would turn over intermittently. The starter was very old.

It was a bit of a grind of a little job. I got a nearly new starter from Pick n Pull. That little plastic cover was in the way and hard to move; the 2 10mm screws were easy enough but it didn't come off until the starter was pulled back. On install I had to pry it out of the way with a big screw driver so I could get the 15mm socket onto the head of the bolts.

It started up with one or two sparks. Thanks y'all

There you go. Now I need to give the engine a good washing to stop the stink. Maybe I should do those overdue plugs too.

I am going to start a thread on the temp gauge sending unit.

[tinkering]

Originally Posted by brycets2

I've taken it to a few dealers that couldn't do it.

They couldn't do the starter or the temp gauge problem?