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Old 02-06-2014, 05:15 PM   #1
jayrider75
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1985 Grand Am

HI, I'm looking for some suggestions for my car not getting fuel or spark, I've done quite a lot of work on it so far. I went ahead and changed out the old engine,because I thought since a few bearings were burnt out I might have lost compression ,I know that was pretty big start, but the pistons were done. So after that I've replaced the secondary coil. the dist. module,pick up coil, coolant temp. sensor and other things I can't quite remember .Anyway the last time I was driving it , I was on the freeway and the engine was cutting off , I have a manual so I tried to keep it alive downshifting it was trying to keep running, but ended up dead. After that I tried cranking it and it almost wanted to go,then it started clicking like the batt. was dead. Now I have fuel going to the tbi but not out ..Not sure if it's because of no spark.Also I have no codes . So if anyone has any ideas please let me know. Thanks.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:17 PM   #2
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

Wow.......

HI, I'm looking for some suggestions for my car not getting fuel or spark, I've done quite a lot of work on it so far. I went ahead and changed out the old engine,because I thought since a few bearings were burnt out I might have lost compression

But what does compression have to do with fuel or spark?

I know that was pretty big start, but the pistons were done. So after that I've replaced the secondary coil. the dist. module,pick up coil, coolant temp. sensor and other things I can't quite remember .

OK, I'm having a hard time remembering an '85......did this have the "Iron Duke" 2.5 4 cyl or the V6? Did it have a distributor or DIS system?

Anyway the last time I was driving it , I was on the freeway and the engine was cutting off , I have a manual so I tried to keep it alive downshifting it was trying to keep running, but ended up dead. After that I tried cranking it and it almost wanted to go,then it started clicking like the batt. was dead. Now I have fuel going to the tbi but not out ..Not sure if it's because of no spark.Also I have no codes . So if anyone has any ideas please let me know. Thanks.

So if you have no spark and no injector pulse(did you check the harness with a noid light? Do you have power on one leg of the injector harness?), it sounds like you are not getting a reference signal from the ignition module, if this has a distributor.....




So the obvious question is, is the distributor actually turning? Do you have power at the "+" terminal of the ICM? Did you apply the dielectric grease to the back of the ICM before installation? So you have a new ICM and pickup coil installed.....if the distributor turns, with a new ICM and pickup coil, a reference signal should be created...question is, is reaching the ECM? If it isn't, then the injector will not be pulsed by the ECM....if you have an opening between "B" and "+" or "A" and "C", then the coil will not fire.....
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:40 AM   #3
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

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Originally Posted by Tech II View Post
Wow.......

HI, I'm looking for some suggestions for my car not getting fuel or spark, I've done quite a lot of work on it so far. I went ahead and changed out the old engine,because I thought since a few bearings were burnt out I might have lost compression

But what does compression have to do with fuel or spark?

I know that was pretty big start, but the pistons were done. So after that I've replaced the secondary coil. the dist. module,pick up coil, coolant temp. sensor and other things I can't quite remember .

OK, I'm having a hard time remembering an '85......did this have the "Iron Duke" 2.5 4 cyl or the V6? Did it have a distributor or DIS system?

Anyway the last time I was driving it , I was on the freeway and the engine was cutting off , I have a manual so I tried to keep it alive downshifting it was trying to keep running, but ended up dead. After that I tried cranking it and it almost wanted to go,then it started clicking like the batt. was dead. Now I have fuel going to the tbi but not out ..Not sure if it's because of no spark.Also I have no codes . So if anyone has any ideas please let me know. Thanks.

So if you have no spark and no injector pulse(did you check the harness with a noid light? Do you have power on one leg of the injector harness?), it sounds like you are not getting a reference signal from the ignition module, if this has a distributor.....




So the obvious question is, is the distributor actually turning? Do you have power at the "+" terminal of the ICM? Did you apply the dielectric grease to the back of the ICM before installation? So you have a new ICM and pickup coil installed.....if the distributor turns, with a new ICM and pickup coil, a reference signal should be created...question is, is reaching the ECM? If it isn't, then the injector will not be pulsed by the ECM....if you have an opening between "B" and "+" or "A" and "C", then the coil will not fire.....
So I have the 2.5 and I'm not to sure where to start ..I do have power coming to + and C..but no t sure how to test A and C..al the manuals I have don't have the proper layouts and are confusing. Also not sure if this would make a diff. a while back my oil press. sensor wires were caught up in my drive shaft, so I just taped off the wires.The car ran after so I don't think it would cause this right?Also I have the distributor not coil pack.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:11 PM   #4
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

so far I've checked the following: "C" on module is 4.95. fuel injector 11.83 one leg. I don't have a noid tester. I checked the power to the coil (separate) from dist. just to be clear.So the ignition wire from the driver side harness is 11.85. I can only test the "+" and "C" out to the coolant temp. sensor which are both 11.85. then I just tested "C" @ the ignition module and have 4.95 and nothing @ the "+" side of the ign. module. Thats what info I have so far. Also I'm not even sure these messages are going thru...they look like it!
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:51 PM   #5
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

So I have the 2.5 and I'm not to sure where to start ..I do have power coming to + and C..but no t sure how to test A and C..al the manuals I have don't have the proper layouts and are confusing. Also not sure if this would make a diff. a while back my oil press. sensor wires were caught up in my drive shaft, so I just taped off the wires.The car ran after so I don't think it would cause this right?Also I have the distributor not coil pack.

Yes, I was kind of guessing you had the 2.5 with a distributor....As for the oil sensor, that has nothing to do with spark or injector pulse....

Back to a couple of checks....did you apply the dielectric grease to the back of the new ICM? New P/U coil properly connected to ICM? disconnect and check resistance of P/U coil.....should be 500-1500 ohms....
does the distributor shaft rotate during cranking?

Now let's disconnect the +/C harness..... with the key on(don't crank), both should measure BAT voltage........Disconnect coil lead from the distributor and attach a park tester to the end of the coil lead....now take a jumper wire and attach it to ground.....attach the other end to "C" in the harness.....wait a couple seconds......now remove the jumper from "C".....a spark should be created at the spark tester when you remove the ground....

If you can create a spark, then the ICM is not creating a grounding signal for the coil.......one thing you can try next.....reconnect the +/C harness to the ICM.....make sure P/U coil is connected....install rotor and distributor cap....don't reconnect the coil lead to the distributor, leave it connected to the spark tester.....disconnect the 4 wire harness to the ICM ....now crank the vehicle and see if you get spark......if you don't, either that ICM or P/U coil you got is no good out of the box.....
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:31 PM   #6
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

Ok..not finished with all rest but just wanted to let you know a few things. Dielectric grease was applied, the dist. is moving, p/u coil properly seated , resistance of p/u coil 758 ohms.. Now I'm checking "C/+" from ign. coil connector? Or the dist. connector? Just wanted to be clear..I have 11.85 on all 3 from ing. conn. "+" "C"& Ing. Only 4.95 on "C" and 0 on "+" from conn. to module. So getting ready to try this other test going ...seem like it's going to be difficult. Also needed to know if spark plug wire w/ spark plug will work , I don't have spark tester around. I just remembered I tested the 4wire harness w/key on and get power to all but 1 "B". Just wondering if ign. switch on steering column has any of the wires for this ..wouldn't mind checking out a diagram of that..just to look.

Last edited by jayrider75; 02-21-2014 at 12:37 PM. Reason: more to add
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Old 02-21-2014, 02:35 PM   #7
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

You can use a spark plug.....just run a jumper from ground to the threads......make sure the spark is nowhere near the battery......

As for the 4 wire connector, with it disconnected, and the car cranking, you should be able to create a spark.....

All that 4 wire connector does is send a reference signal to the ECM, so it fires the injector(ref hi).....has a reference ground......has a bypass signal to switch the ICM to ECM control....and the EST signal fires the ICM when the ICM has switched to ECM control....the bypass signal only comes into play after the car has started......so when that 4 wire connector is disconnected, The ICM is firing the coil with no electronic spark timing(this is varied by the ECM)....it's firing at a constant rate while cranking.....
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:48 PM   #8
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

this one seems a little difficult to get..I'm disconnecting the C/+ from the ign. part of the coil right? So the jumper wire ..I take one end to ground and the other to C? THen wait a few and pull off @ C? So C & ground are on the same jumper? Just want to be clear.
Now let's disconnect the +/C harness..... with the key on(don't crank), both should measure BAT voltage........Disconnect coil lead from the distributor and attach a park tester to the end of the coil lead....now take a jumper wire and attach it to ground.....attach the other end to "C" in the harness.....wait a couple seconds......now remove the jumper from "C".....a spark should be created at the spark tester when you remove the ground....
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:06 PM   #9
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

this one seems a little difficult to get..I'm disconnecting the C/+ from the ign. part of the coil right? So the jumper wire ..I take one end to ground and the other to C? THen wait a few and pull off @ C? So C & ground are on the same jumper? Just want to be clear.

No......you disconnect the c/+ harness from the ICM.......then you take the grounded jumper and attach it to the "c" connector in the disconnected harness....then when you disconnect it a spark should be created....
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Old 02-23-2014, 02:07 PM   #10
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

So I have 4.99 on the C, grounded it for 3 sec. and no spark..we are talking about @ the spark plug right?It does seem that if the coil is getting full power @ c & + and the ign.plug in that the coil is that bad guy ? Was that the original reason for the break down in the first place was the failing ing. coil?REplacing it with a brand new bad one...man..All these test.even if there just happen to be a bad ground would've went around some way right?Every thig seems to get power just cant get spark out of the coil!
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:12 PM   #11
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

You have the coil hooked up , correct(the blk and the grey connectors)?

The two wire connector that goes to the C/+ terminals on the ICM, I want disconnected.......with the key on, If you take a voltmeter, and touch the + connector in the disconnected harness, you should get BAT voltage.....if you touch the C connector with the voltmeter, you should get BAT voltage......

Now if you take a jumper, TO A GOOD GROUND, and touch the C connector in the disconnected harness, there will be no spark.....wait a couple seconds, and disconnect the jumper from the C terminal of the harness, and a spark should jump from the spark plug you attached to the coil wire(remember to have the threads of the spark plug grounded).....

The reason there is no spark when you initially ground C in the harness, is because the magnetic field is slow to build up until it is saturated.....when you take the ground away from C, then the magnetic field, collapses instantly, inducing a high voltage in the secondary winding, creating the spark.....

I have no idea where you are getting 4.99 volts on C......
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:23 PM   #12
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

As far as no fuel out of the injector, disconnect the harness to the injector,,,,,

Key on(not cranking)......find out which lead in the harness is hot(usually pink).....now, jumper a wire from that hot lead in the harness to the corresponding connector in the injector......then get another jumper that is attached to a good ground......have someone turn the key off....wait 10 seconds, have them turn the key just to on.....when they do, take the grounded jumper and touch the other connector in the injector(careful not to touch that hot lead with the ground, you will blow a fuse)....when you touch the other injector lead, fuel should come out....just hold it there long enough to just see fuel come out, and then remove the jumper from the injector,,,,,you don't want to keep it connected long and put too much fuel in the throttle body.....
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:46 PM   #13
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

YES!!! JUst ran the fuel inj. test and it worked ..JUst exited to see something happen! I still need to run the other test.
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:45 PM   #14
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

Well not sure if my last post came up ..Don't see it . Anyway ,it's running!I'm really embarrassed to say but, this whole time I had the ecs mixed up w/the +/c conn. their the same type of plug-in! Unbelievable! It idles pretty good but the second I touch the gas pedal.It backfires ..not out the exhaust but back up the tbi. I need to get my timing light from my father house to do that..till then I have 2 codes up 1, the o2 sens. I know it's bad because it's from another car-same engine. The other code is for the IAC. I've had issues with that thing for years! It's fairly new,maybe getting the timing right and the o2 replaced will satisfy that.Let me know what you think.Thanks alot for your help. I figured most people would've gave up on me !
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:33 PM   #15
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Re: 1985 Grand Am

Hi, I was able to get the car to a rough idle,and would die if I touch the gas pedal . So after checking thru everything I could think of I went to star it back up and would not start and spit up a bunch of fuel out of the tbi. ,then I noticed the meter part of the tbi was leaking.So I went to get a fuel reg. (that's the only way to get the new gaskets ) changed it out now it will start but lopes big time,which makes it impossible to time it, but got as close as I could. The car wouldn't even star if I was to install regulator backwards right?
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