Yet ANOTHER "security light" thread.... except...

[Tech II]

30 minutes? Thought the lockout timer was 3 minutes?

To learn a new key without a Master key, is 10 minutes with a Tech II, and 30 minutes without a Tech II.....

[87TTops]

3 minutes? I keep reading different things and now I'm totally confused. And honestly, it always seems to vary. But either way, if I turn the key again and it fails again, I thought the timer should reset. But I turn it once more right away, and it starts. I can't figure out for sure what this system is doing. Ugh, soon as I get home to my tools I'm trying the bypass method.

[maxman]

My symptoms were similar except for the security light. Dash lights goofy, head lights strobing, no crank. No difference with 125Amp battery chatrger. Put volt meter across the battery and red 9 volts. Disconnected, it read 12 volts. I put the meter in series with the battery and read no current. Very goofy to ready 12 volts disconnected and 9 volts connected even though the meter was parallel with the battery. According to the discussion above, I would tear into the BCM. Well, I put in another battery and all is fine. So I took the 2 year old battery back to Meijers where I bought it. No bar code, no receipt, no nothing. They could not find record of me buying it although it was obvious that it was purchased at Meiers do to the labeling. Meijer's gve me a full refund plus core deposit for $110. 2 years old, no record of purchase, no receipt, no nothing. Full refund of current battery cost. I think i will buy batteries and replace every 2 yrs

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by Tech II

30 minutes? Thought the lockout timer was 3 minutes?

To learn a new key without a Master key, is 10 minutes with a Tech II, and 30 minutes without a Tech II.....

Sorry but it is not. The keys do not have any sort of encription in them. You don't need a tech2 to program a new PK system. It should take 10 minutes but sometimes the BCM is dumb and makes you do it again which would be a total of 20minutes.

When I bypass these PK systems basically I am making the BCM thinking I am programing a new PK system. Now, if the "fail/enable" light is on, then I do need to reset it with a scanner but that's it.

[Colt Hero]

Just thought I'd chime in here once again with an update. I still have my '02 Impala (which I bought brand new in June 2002). It's 14 years old now and about to turn 193,000 miles. My son was driving it a couple days ago, stopped at a light, the car happened to stall out (a separate problem), the SECURITY message appeared, and he couldn't get the car re-started. I had to rescue him by pushing the car into a nearby parking lot. 10 minutes later, the car started (as it always has), I drove it away (we swapped vehicles), and it hasn't failed since.

So I never did anything to fix this SECURITY problem on my Impala. The reason is it happened so infrequently (maybe 10 times in 14 years now), and it always happened on startup. And then, whenever it DID happen, the car ALWAYS started after the 10-minute wait.

So now I'm finally going to try cleaning the contacts on the switch/cylinder - because, even after all these years, it still looks like as good a solution as any of them.

But can anyone answer this question: if the electrical contacts are, in fact, the problem, why does my car ALWAYS start after the 10-min wait time? I mean - with *my car*, in EVERY SINGLE CASE, whenever the SECURITY message has appeared while trying to start the car (and the car would not start), the car has NEVER failed to start after the 10-minute wait! How can that be the contacts?? If the contacts are oxidized, they are oxidized (and need to be cleaned). Is the resistance value changing slightly with oxidation and then the system (ie: BCM) adjusts to the slightly different value?? Or is the value just sporadically jumping out of range, but then suddenly behaving itself again?? I don't know. People claim that they've cleaned these contacts and haven't seen the problem again in over a year, but I've done *nothing* up to this point, and I can say the same thing!

Really - the best solution to fix this problem is to take the car to the dealer and have them patch the BCM program to ignore PassLock completely. Or, if they won't do it (because they want to charge hundreds of dollars to replace all the system's components), does anybody know which OBD-II software (if any) might be able to modify the BCM program?? I've never seen any that said they could. All I've ever seen are programs that READ the 90 or so possible parameters.

Also, I believe on the 2003 Impala (and beyond???), GM added an "ALARM" menu option on the radio which allows PassLock to be disabled (by the owner). They must've seen PassLock as a looming crisis and decided to proactively add this shutoff switch before some lawyers decided to file a class-action suit against them. My 2002, of course, doesn't have this option ... but it makes me wonder if a 2003 radio, connected into my 2002 wiring, would give access to the bit in the BCM program which disables this stupid PassLock feature! This would assume my 2002 BCM program is similar to the 2003 BCM program (at least from a data segment standpoint). Not sure what other changes were implemented between these two years, but this is a possibility.

Has anybody installed a 2003 Impala radio unit in a 2002 Impala (or know if it would work)?

[Tech II]

GM added an "ALARM" menu option on the radio which allows PassLock to be disabled (by the owner). They must've seen PassLock as a looming crisis and decided to proactively add this shutoff switch before some lawyers decided to file a class-action suit against them.


I have never heard of such a thing, or any such option.......with that 10 minute rest procedure, you are just relearning a new r-code, that could change due to a bad connection....

What the BCM is looking for is an R-code from the PassLock sensor....the only contacts are, the ones between the Passlock sensor, and the ignition switch, that it mates to.......the lock cylinder has nothing to do with this, outside of the tumblers going bad and the key doesn't rotate....other known problems are in the harness connector contacts at the BCM....

There are bypass modules out there, just google them....cost is about 200-300 bucks and can be installed by the owner, supposedly....

here is one:
http://newrockies.com/passlock-bypass/

[Colt Hero]

Originally Posted by Tech II

I have never heard of such a thing, or any such option (ALARM Radio option)

Upon further review, the ALARM feature does NOT have any effect on PassLock (my apologies for possibly misleading anyone). There are actually TWO Theft-Deterrent systems on the 2003 Impala (and probably my 2002 also):

1.) "Content Theft-Deterrent"

2.) "PassLock"

There is also "THEFTLOCK" which protects the radio.

The "ALARM" radio setting allows the "Content Theft-Deterrent" to be turned OFF and ON. You access this option the same way you would to reset the OIL LIFE MONITOR.

=================

As for "re-learning a new r-code" (and I've seen that phrase used many times in everything I've read regarding this problem), I'm not sure that language is quite right. I don't think it re-learns a *new* r-code, I think it re-learns (or re-discovers) the same old r-code (after it lost it ... even for just a second or two). I'm guessing the BCM has a fixed value stored in it that it is expecting to see from the ignition sensor ... a "Password" to start the car. And maybe the Password is acceptable within a certain range, but I'd doubt the BCM could learn a "new" password without itself being re-programmed ... otherwise that would make the car easier to steal. I think the BCM loses the return r-code, sets the "SECURITY" message, and starts the 10-minute wait timer. If the car is already running, it's of no consequence. But if it occurs on startup, the 10-minute wait is designed to discourage the thief (while also not upsetting the rightful owner - in case the system happened to mal-function). I'm guessing the r-code (on my car, at least), ALWAYS reappears at the BCM well within the 10-minute wait time, but the BCM is still coded to wait the 10-minutes anyway.

I've seen my SECURITY message appear when I've hit a pothole. It had no effect because the car was running. I've also seen the message appear first thing in the morning, or after several hours of sitting during the day. To me, the common denominator is the ignition switch/cylinder. It can be jarred by hitting a pothole. It is the last part to move when turning off the car, and the first part to move when starting it. It has the weight of the extra keys on it at all times. I'm not sure I buy the idea that cleaning the contacts fixes the problem, but it's something related to those contacts, or the switch making the contacts. This could be similar to a starter or window motor where you remove it, jostle it around a bit, and it magically starts working again. I've seen both of those things happen with me. In the case of the window motor, it worked another full year before getting stuck again, at which time I finally replaced it because of all the trouble involved with removing it. Maybe the solution is a combination of soldering the contacts and replacing (or cleaning) the mechanical switch which contacts the contacts. I'll start with the contacts since that's the simplest (and no-cost) possible solution.

=================
Lastly, with the bypass kits: I don't have any faith in any of those options. They seem like overkill to me, and the cost, together with the risk of introducing other issues, makes them a poor choice in my opinion.