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Car Comparisons Compare any cars and find out what every body else thinks. Just refrain from making stupid comparos like Viper vs. Geo Metro :) |
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04-21-2006, 01:14 PM | #76 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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exactly were not saying lower the cylinders. just make the car lighter. imagine if you took a z28 kept the 320hp v8 lowed the weight to say 3000 lbs down from about 3500. it would be faster (if it runs 0-60 in aroound 5 seconds stock, at 3klbs it would run closer to 4.5.) it would handle much better, and it would get several more mpg. all this without sacraficing anything. as far as suvs go anyone who drives them as a dd is a little anyways. unless you offroad, suvs are useless. and im not saying that imports build more fuel ifficent engines as much as they utilize them better through gearing, lightweight, etc. hence what you mentioned about japanesee trucks.
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04-23-2006, 01:20 AM | #77 | |||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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as for weight, they probably could make their cars lighter. but remember, safety equipment, sturdiness, price, and comfort directly relate with weight. they dont feel they need to is the point that i am trying to make maybe. the charger or the fusion or whatever car you choose, the bottom line is that if they lowered the weight, this may add to the price, lessen the comfort, remove safety equipment, and lessen the sturdiness. also, why change something that more or less isn't a large concern of their buyers? for example, if you have a guy looking at the Charger SRT-8...i think if you told him that his 425hp hemi powered 4 door sedan weighs in at 200lbs greater than its competition but it also has 100 more hp than its competition and costs $10k less. Quote:
do i think that american companies could drop a little weight off of their cars? yes do i think they should? no why? because their buyers do not care and they are running a business not a charity
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04-23-2006, 02:19 AM | #78 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
Not sure if this point has been covered or talked about. But when I was reading this thread at the beginning...(I read maybe 3 or 4 pages and thought to myself all this has been is bash on Mitsu. Anyways) The Audi TT that got the horrible gas mileage is AWD...not sure if that makes a big difference or not but I think it should make some. Also, the weight differences not sure if it's helping my cause or the other cause. Ahem...I myself would have to chose Euro's over domestics and imports from the Asia area. My first car was an 84 325i Bimmer with the straight 6...the odometer stopped working and it still continued to go. I think it stopped about 184,000 miles or so. The only reason why it stopped running was me not paying attention to it over heating. I drove it without a water pump belt for about 30-45 miles before it quit. Second car was a 1986 Plymoth (spelling) horizon. Yes I know a terrible car to begin with but it did do good for here to there situations...unless the here to there was on the interstate doing 70-75 mph. Blew that engine. Replaced the engine and the replacement engine blew...well, a piston somehow got a hole the size of a quartar in it. 3rd car...1995 Ford Escort...automatic first auto car I ever owned...the tranny went out and replaced it and the replacement tranny (from junk yard) was well, junk. My current car a 1995 VW Golf being salvaged and everything runs the best out of all of my cars. It was totaled from a head on collision. And I am driving it daily now almost redlining it when I shift and I am seeing no signs of wear or tear. Another reason I would chose Euro's is there really isn't any swap parts from one chassis to another...except some VW parts like jetta and Golf front bumpers...but at least thats in the same company. Unlike Mazda trucks and Ford Rangers being twins. I just like the reliability and performance that Euro's give. And I have driven Japanese cars. My girlfriends dad owns a 1995 Del Sol with the Vtec motor. Very torquey and I love it...I just don't think I could personally drive one daily. Yeah their great for a drive down the road and driving the road hard but that's about it for me.
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04-23-2006, 04:30 AM | #79 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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As for weight; How could the Celica weigh 2,500 lbs, a '95 Civic weigh 2,200, a '06 Honda Fit weigh less than 2,500, etc, etc? My car for instance does not have any good reason for weighing 3,200+ lbs while a comparable car of the same year with the same features weighs 500+ lbs less. How can the Honda Insight weigh less than 2,000 lbs and cost less than $20k new? All these cars were pretty cheap and I'm sure had all the same features if not more than the much heavier competition. The fact is there is no actual reason why these American sedans weigh 4,000+ lbs, and it does have drawbacks such as horrible turning abilities. Cars in general continue to increase in weight with every year. Cars like the Civic just keep increasing their dimensions beyond any recognition of their starting point or purpose. Gas mileage continues to go down as it has for 30+ years. This isn't good for your pocket book or the planet, or certain aspects of perfomance. There are benefits to reducing a vehicle's weight. Some manufacturers just can't see that.
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04-23-2006, 11:48 AM | #80 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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its not like american cars are known for comfort and luxury anyways. an easy and cheaper way to lower weight is make the car smaller. no one needs a sedan with the dimensions of an suv. look at the 7th generation celica it is only 2500lbs even with all the new technology in it. it is still comfortable, has safety equipnent, and retains enough rigidness to outhandle the crap out of most domestic cars. it is a little on the expensive size for what it is. but thats cause it is such a complete package. yea sure there is no need for them to drop weight because most people are ignorant enough to pay for a charger r/t when it has a lower power to weight ratio, less reliability, worse gas mileage, and less refinement than a honda accord.
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04-23-2006, 09:18 PM | #81 | |||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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i am not saying that the weight of a lighter car isn't beneficial, but if the sacrifices effect the market for the car then why lower the weight when the consumer does not care.
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04-23-2006, 09:29 PM | #82 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
this isnt a part of the conversation at hand but i think there is more to it.
believe it or not te point im about to make comes from my mother, the javilin, and charger girl of the 70's ( good times with muscle cars) anyway we were talking about this. and she made the point of when toyota cars were made in japan and imported, the damn things would last forever, 600,000 w/o a rebuild wasnt an imaginary figure. and they could get 60 mpg. but then when they started to make them here, 100,000 and your motor was in dire need of rebuild. now this spikes my interest because it makes me remember: edison's light bulb still works, and was eventually designed to not burn out, then big business took over as said... this cant happen... thus we buy tons of light bulbs a year. the relivence of that is... do you think that this way of think is also playing a role im modern vehicles?
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04-23-2006, 09:58 PM | #83 | ||||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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As for the comparison with "Asian" cars: '05 Magnum: 4,336 lbs 17/23 mpg '06 Charger RT: 4,031 17/25 '05 Chrysler 300C: 4,046 17/23 '03 Accord: 3,265 20/30 04 Altima: 3,197 21/26 04 Maxima: 3,436 20/29 05 Avalon XLS: 3,560 22/31 05 Camry XLE: 3,428 20/28 04 Lexus GS300: 3,649 18/24 Though there are some lighter "Domestics" and some heavier "Imports" than these, so some of them are about the same weight. But I don't see any asian sedans weighing 4,000+ lbs. Quote:
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04-24-2006, 12:32 PM | #84 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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yea thats true, the old celicas, like the rwd generations were amazingly reliable and even my 5th gen is very reliable 200k on stock motor is pretty common, mines up to about 180k with no signs of stopping. but in the newer 7th gen. celicas i have heard of a lot of mechanical problems around 100k theyre still more reliable than most cars but just not what they used to be.
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04-24-2006, 12:34 PM | #85 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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04-24-2006, 02:37 PM | #86 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
one thing that makes me have respect for the corvette is that in a world where cars are getting bigger with every new developement, the C6 is actually smaller then the C5.
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04-24-2006, 08:15 PM | #87 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
you dont have respect for it because it can outrun cars twice its price?????????
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04-27-2006, 12:37 AM | #88 | |||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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Larger N/A engines will also generally have a wider more linear power curve as oppose to the more narrow and peaky small displacement, F/I motor. Whichever one is better depends on the requirement and its application. Also, your typical US V8 is not likely to be more expensive to produce then your typical Japanese I4. Firstly, the US V8 is more mechanically simple often sticking to OHV, 2 valves-per-cylinder layouts. The DOHC multi-valve 4cyls are by essence more complex and this can increase tooling costs. Secondly, the US V8 is used in a wide variety of different applications. The small block Chevy for example can be found in cars, trucks, vans, boats, specialty off-road vehicles, ect. This versatility allows manufactures more use from an engines existing tooling so they don’t need to charge as much per engine, as would be the case with a more specific design. Thirdly, the modern OHV V8’s are surprisingly small in size considering their displacement. As nobodies paying for the empty space in the cylinders & block it goes to show that from a cost-of-materials point of view, not that much money is saved in the production of a smaller (but more sophisticated) 4cyl engine. Adding a turbo system to this 4cyl will certainly increase the unit cost to greater then that of the V8. Quote:
Some turbo charged cars (especially heavily modded ones) necessitate placing a large intercooler up front and at a near right angle to the direction of airflow. This can make the car less fuel efficient as well as lowering it's top speed. A vented hood can even exacerbate this problem.
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04-27-2006, 02:00 AM | #89 | ||
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
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As for the powerband; V8's generally can't rev over 5-6k, while I4's routinely go 8.5-10k. Power increases as you go higher in the rpm range which is why high reving Hondas with no torque whatsoever can still run 10s, and why F1 cars rev to 18,000. Look what happens when this 601AWHP Evo races a 644RWHP Z06: http://srvidz.vidiac.com/video/wm/15...F9B35F6368.htm They stay almost exactly side by side, and the Evo is even 100+ lbs heavier than the Z06. Here the same Evo races two 600+RWHP Cobras: http://srvidz.vidiac.com/video/wm/FC...E2C57E2AA9.htm And here it races a 667RWHP Cobra: http://srvidz.vidiac.com/video/1BF87...CF61D2EB57.htm For the cost to produce the motors; neither of us actually know which one costs more. 4-cylinders such as the 4g63 in DSMs have been in use for over 15 years and still going, and have been used in many different applications including trucks (in a slightly different form). But if you look at 4-cyl vs. 8-cyl cars by year, market, and price the 4-cyl's are quicker most of the time. I made a list of many of them in another thread but it's gone now. As for aerodynamics; I would imagine it would make some amount of difference but how much I don't know. I doubt it would make much difference unless you're going 175+ mph. But who is giong to do that? Around a track or on the drag strip it shouldn't matter too much, or Evos/DSMs wouldn't own like they do. It's not like cars with V8's are aerodynamic anyways... other than the vet, and even it has flip up headlights until this year.
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04-27-2006, 02:23 AM | #90 | |
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Re: "American" vs. "Import"
ok guys the fact of the matter is import cars are better. i have this arguement with my friends everyday. and you know what i win. honestly what would you rather have a nissan skyline GTR or a 06 vette. tell me you wouldnt pick that skyline over that vette in a heartbeat. the only american car i would drive is a srt4 and thats still sport compact. hey im not dissin im just gettin my 2 pennies in the jar.
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