69' BOSS 302 VS Camaro Z28

[Musclecarclub]

Definitely one of the reasons the high winding small block 302 sold less than the big block 396s (and 350s) was that on the street, they required a lot of careful shifting and high reving. That definitely was ahead of its time.

[PWMAN]

Originally Posted by hoser795

In short, I think a Z would totally smoke a Boss 302.

If that was true the Boss would have never one any trans am races, but it did.

And no camaro owner is ever going to say they lost to a mustang, vice versa too.

[fatninja19]

Originally Posted by PWMAN

And no camaro owner is ever going to say they lost to a mustang, vice versa too.

I would.

[dcatkin]

Originally Posted by PWMAN

Since they are both 302's I would like to know which would win in a race assuming same drivers and 4 speeds.
I know they are both rated at 290 HP.
IMO the Boss 302 would win. It just has to make more power than the chevy 302. The boss 302 has cleveland heads with HUGE (2.23/1.71)canted valves and gigantic ports. Chevy's 302 is just plain old 2.02/1.60 valves, not sure about the ports I assume better than most other SBC's.
I would like to know specs on these cars, like curb weights and gear ratios kind of stuff. Both were solid cams and 780 CFM holleys.

I've beat meny boss mustangs.

Allow me to expound on the head thing, the 2.02/160 heads have redesigned ports for better flow, and of course the bigger valves allow better breathing. The idea behind the larger valve is to flow better at high rpms, and thereby making more power, and in flow tests it does work. But I used to own a Z/28 with the 302 in it and I never lost to a boss mustang be it a 302 or a 429, I really think it boils down to how well the driver knows his car.

[dcatkin]

Originally Posted by PWMAN

If that was true the Boss would have never one any trans am races, but it did.

And no camaro owner is ever going to say they lost to a mustang, vice versa too.

Just the facts

I would admit to losing, that is the one thing that makes us build on our Muscle cars and make them faster, I did lose to a 1970 Buick GS StageIII, GSX, and to a Baracuda with a 440 and then another one with a 426 Hemi, oh and an L-88 Vette. But never to a Boss mustang.

[PWMAN]

I'm thinking the Mustang must weigh more then, anybody have curb weight specs?

[1g1yy]

Well, I'm an old guy who was around in the late '60's and early '70's. I spent some great days at a 1/4 mi. track in Nashville (long gone now). My best friend had a '69 Z28 that he ran. I never saw a Boss 302 beat him. Guys, it's about the combination. The Boss 302's didn't run worth a crap off the showroom floor! The valves were far too big.

And actually the Z28's didn't run that good stock either. At the very least they required headers, dist. recurved, and carb. rejetted. Oh, and 4.56 gears, or at least 4.11's ( which meant you had to change rearends for any road trips).

My buddies Z28 won a lot of races -- and he still talks about how fast it was. But if you want to know the truth -- IT ONLY GOT INTO THE HIGH 13's A COUPLE OF TIMES!! Mostly it ran low 14's. That was with 4.11 gears, open headers, dist. recurved, and carb. rejetted. On street tires -- with slicks it ran slower because it bogged bad off the line.

The claims of big HP numbers are DREAMS! Only the baddest of the big blocks from that era can run with some of the new cars like SS Camaros or C5 Corvettes. Oh yeah, they could be made to run with mods, but with some of the right mods the new cars are faster still.

I know we always look back and think, "Oh the good old days when...". But those days weren't so good. Guys, THESE ARE THE GOOD OLD DAYS!! Modern muscle is way ahead of classic muscle in every way!

[Vicious]

i dont care, personally i would take a 1970 cuda...

[1g1yy]

Yeah, I always liked them too!

[Bloodhound]

The Boss 302's didn't run worth a crap off the showroom floor! The valves were far too big.

This statement is correct, actually. The Cleveland head has huge ports at the end - which kills the airspeed and the horsepower. sure they flow alright for any engine with some decent mods to increase air speed, but aside from that they really wouldn't add that much. A mod done in australia is to fit aluminium square tubing to the inside of the heads to increase the air speed and get better horsepower, but this is considered extreme for a regular streetcar and is rarely done, many people fitting smaller 2V heads. When new alloy heads were made for the clevo, the exit ports were heavily revised.

[Purpura Delujo]

That is an extremely hard question. But given the Z28s racing records I would have to go with it. Although I do not know much of the Boss 302, I do know they are very nice cars. I would love to own one, definately!

[Mercracer]

Originally Posted by PWMAN

Well first of all the BOSS 302 was the second fastest mustang in the 60's right along side of the BOSS 429, so it's Fords major thing too.

Looking strictly at Magazine test times, neither the Boss 302 nor the Boss 429 was able to break into the 13's in stock street trim. With a 2.40:1 first gear ratio in the close ratio top-loader 4-speed transmissions, neither car was a pleasure to try and launch.
The 428 Mustangs on the other hand did, starting with the 428CJ in 1968.
Even the Ford specific magazines rated both the Boss 302 and 429's in the 14.0's.
Regarding the statements that were made suggesting that the Boss 302 made over 350HP in stock trim, that is just not true. The most optomistic estimates in the day were that the Boss 302 made 325HP in factory trim. The Boss 351 on the other hand, did in fact make over 350HP.
Going by the Magazine test times, the Z-28 had a best of 14.34 in Hot Rod Magazine. There was a test in Cars Magazine of a 69 Z/28 with a dual 4V Holley Cross Ram intake and 4.10 gears running a 13.75, but that can hardly be used as a fair stock comparison.
There were also magazine tests of "tweeked" Boss 429's in the low 13's and even into the 12's.

[Bloodhound]

true, ford did ship tweaked mustangs to car testers to record their speeds. The Boss 351 was actually underrated, capable of making around 380hp with some modest tweaks. evidence is in the falcon GTHO which ran a similarly setup engine and is rumoured to make up to 400hp.

[Jared 80]

Dude go with the BOSS but get the 351. The old Z28s looked sweet but they don't match the BOSS which was built for racing.

[PWMAN]

Originally Posted by Mercracer

Looking strictly at Magazine test times, neither the Boss 302 nor the Boss 429 was able to break into the 13's in stock street trim. With a 2.40:1 first gear ratio in the close ratio top-loader 4-speed transmissions, neither car was a pleasure to try and launch.
The 428 Mustangs on the other hand did, starting with the 428CJ in 1968.
Even the Ford specific magazines rated both the Boss 302 and 429's in the 14.0's.
Regarding the statements that were made suggesting that the Boss 302 made over 350HP in stock trim, that is just not true. The most optomistic estimates in the day were that the Boss 302 made 325HP in factory trim. The Boss 351 on the other hand, did in fact make over 350HP.
Going by the Magazine test times, the Z-28 had a best of 14.34 in Hot Rod Magazine. There was a test in Cars Magazine of a 69 Z/28 with a dual 4V Holley Cross Ram intake and 4.10 gears running a 13.75, but that can hardly be used as a fair stock comparison.
There were also magazine tests of "tweeked" Boss 429's in the low 13's and even into the 12's.

http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...s-50fast.shtml

Both of these links show the BOSS 429 doing 13.6.
It is physically impossible that the boss 302 only made 325 HP. I would believe 325 ft/lbs of torque, but come on with cleveland heads and huge valves not to mention radical cams the 302's made 400 HP just like the 302 chevy's. I would believe the chevy made more torque , simply because of the flow characteristics (port velocity) of the Cleveland heads. They had 2.23/1.71 CANTED valves, larger ports than chevy's wedge heads which only had 2.02/1.60 valves. That much difference in valves alone is enough to be atleast 25 HP more, plus they are canted which aids flow. Both of these engines had similar solid lifter cams, an aluminum dual plane intake, and a 780 CFM Holley carb. What would give the edge in power to the chevy?