99 wagon speedometer works when it wants to, HELP

[rockwerks]

I have found an easy way to deternind if it is the speedo head or the VSS,

To test the speedo head while moving press and hold the trip reset button, it the head is faulty the speedo will start to work while th button is depressed

[jarbadgolfer]

This seems to be a dead forum, no postings other than mine since Sep. 2006. Sad. SUBARU TECH is an especially valuable resource to lose.

To sum up my experience for anyone with a similar problem stumbling across this forum:
I noticed that the voltage at the speedometer went down slightly when the speedometer stopped working, from 2.4 to 2.36 v DC and 2.6 to 2.56 AC.
Based on SUBARU TECHs note that voltage should be 4 volts, I thought this suggested a bad speed sensor 2. I asked my dealer, and he told me that replacing speed sensor 2 was cheaper than replacing the Speedo Head ($300 vs $400). I told him to replace speed sensor 2. It turns out that there are two speed sensor 2 configurations in the 99 Outback. In one, the sensor is separate. That's the cheap repair. In the other, mine, the sensor is part of a harness, an expensive ($760) repair. Since the car was already in the shop, I told them to go ahead and change the harness. It did not fix the problem, and the voltages at the speedo head were still "too low".

Now, I didn't know if the 4V that SUBARU TECH specified only applies to the non-harness version of the speed sensor. Since I already knew how to pull the instrument panel, I found a used instrument panel (through automotix.com, a good service) for $90 and tried that. It didn't fix the problem.

I've tried everything I have been told to try, I'm $860 poorer, and still have the problem. So, I'm going to give up, take my dealer's advice to wait until it breaks and stays broken, and let them fix it. Since it's been intermittent for over a year, I think that it may never finally break, and I may never buy another Subaru. An intermittent speedometer is an absolutely ridiculous thing to have to live with.

[rockwerks]

Originally Posted by jarbadgolfer

This seems to be a dead forum, no postings other than mine since Sep. 2006. Sad. SUBARU TECH is an especially valuable resource to lose.

To sum up my experience for anyone with a similar problem stumbling across this forum:
I noticed that the voltage at the speedometer went down slightly when the speedometer stopped working, from 2.4 to 2.36 v DC and 2.6 to 2.56 AC.
Based on SUBARU TECHs note that voltage should be 4 volts, I thought this suggested a bad speed sensor 2. I asked my dealer, and he told me that replacing speed sensor 2 was cheaper than replacing the Speedo Head ($300 vs $400). I told him to replace speed sensor 2. It turns out that there are two speed sensor 2 configurations in the 99 Outback. In one, the sensor is separate. That's the cheap repair. In the other, mine, the sensor is part of a harness, an expensive ($760) repair. Since the car was already in the shop, I told them to go ahead and change the harness. It did not fix the problem, and the voltages at the speedo head were still "too low".

Now, I didn't know if the 4V that SUBARU TECH specified only applies to the non-harness version of the speed sensor. Since I already knew how to pull the instrument panel, I found a used instrument panel (through automotix.com, a good service) for $90 and tried that. It didn't fix the problem.

I've tried everything I have been told to try, I'm $860 poorer, and still have the problem. So, I'm going to give up, take my dealer's advice to wait until it breaks and stays broken, and let them fix it. Since it's been intermittent for over a year, I think that it may never finally break, and I may never buy another Subaru. An intermittent speedometer is an absolutely ridiculous thing to have to live with.

after reading a bunch of stuff in the forum, I came to the conclusion that subaru tech didnt know as much as he thought, Mine was the speedo head and I repaired it myself, with a used one for 10.00

[jarbadgolfer]

Originally Posted by rockwerks

I have found an easy way to deternine if it is the speedo head or the VSS,

To test the speedo head while moving press and hold the trip reset button, it the head is faulty the speedo will start to work while the button is depressed

rockwerks, it's entirely possible that the head that came in the $90 instrument panel I bought is bad too, because they both start to work while the button is depressed (sometimes). And I agree that if you can make the speedo work by (essentially) banging on it, it's most likely the head.

Where did you find a speedo head for $10? Maybe I just need to keep trying heads until I find a good one. (And I'm not even sure that if I bought a new one for $200 it would be good).

[952.2FLAT4]

I've Got The Samed Damned Problem The Sucker Hops Whenever I'm Under 25 Mph And Is Off By About 5 Mph When Up To Speed...

Funny Thing Is I Didnt Figure That Out For A While...
Whilst Driving I Set The Cruise Control...
Well Poeple Were Always Giving Me The Brights Blowing Thier Horn Amungst Other Things Till I Figured It Out...

How Much Is It To Get It Fixed? In Total?

[ttttsimon]

Mr whizard http://www.mrwhizard.com/ fixes it for $180.

[develis1]

hello my name is joe develis. I own and operate an automotive repair facility
i have two 99 subaru legacy's one is a sedan and the other a gt wagon.
one is a five speed trans and the other an automatic.
when I found that both had the speedo problem as all 99 models do, I became interested. I scanned the ecm and got into the data pids to see if
the vss was giving out a signal to the speedo head. I did this when the speedo was not working. In both cases I found that the ecm was giving a
signal to the scanner which clearly states that the problem is in the head.
upon getting a used speedo cluster from the salvage yard I put it in and it
did not work. boy I am in the business and should no better. I never thought
at the time that I could have another bad head. I did. but before I found
this out I made the same mistake as many techs. I replaced the harness
set up in the automatic very costly and took out the sensor in the five speed.
by the way the five speed has a plastic sensor with three threads and thread
lock on it. I could not get out the old sensor without breaking it and I had t0
remove the transmission to finish the job right!!!!!!!!. A total waste of time.
because the problem with that was in the head also. both gave signals but
I took the advice of a local subaru dealer's service manager and ordered the
harness and sensor for both cars.

it is possible that a sensor can cause this problem, in my experiences with
two at my shop at once highly unlikley.
the way to fix this problem is to replace the speedo head itself with a new
head from the dealer. the dash is easy to remove.
this will solve your problem. it has for me.

I learned the hard way. your local service shop should have a scanner
tell him to go into the data stream to see the vss signal when the speedo
is not working. hint leave the car overnight as when the car is cold. the
problem will more than likley show its ugly self.

even guys in the business have to make mistakes to find out the solution.

good luck. and do not buy a used cluster it will most likley be bad as all are.
its a huge problem with the 99 models only. must of been a bad batch
of speedo's that year from whoever made them.
nissan pathfinders and pickup trucks had the same problem in the heads of
97 model years. I have done alot of those.

good luck.

[customstorm]

I too experienced the same speedometer problem on my 1999 outback wagon. Subaru dealer informed me they could not diagnosis it unless it actually happened to them at the shop or a test drive. After viewing these multilple forums and testing (pressing trip meter, activating cruise control, etc.), I purchased a new speedometer head from the dealer for $207. Replaced the malfunctioning one and have fixed the problem. Dash removal/replacement is simple and didn't take over 45 minutes. Wish Subaru mechanics would cruise these sites once and a while.

[jarbadgolfer]

Well, I paid a dealer $800 to replace the harness and bought a used instrument cluster for $100, both to no avail. What's another $207 for a new head? I'm really tempted to try that. If I do, I'll report back.

[tednjqb]

I fixed mines today, 3/17/2008. I bought a 99 Legacy Outback with-out inspection. I had to get this fixed. Its still not registered I've had it for over a week. My problem I discovered was bad grounding. Press the window switch up and down to see if the interior light dims. Its an easy fix:

1. Disconect the negative from the battery.

2. Take the dash out.

3. Atach a cable to the screw on the back of the speedo with a cable connector. The screw has nothing attached to it and is next to the speedo harness with the green/black cable.

4. Run the cable down to the open hood latch and ground it there.

5. Connect the negative on the battery tighten it start the car ride around and see if this worked for you also.

The reason to connect the cable there is that the problem might be that the speedo is not getting enough current or volts. If you take the dash or instrument cluster apart and take the speedo out there is a circuit board or what ever is called. The screw ataches where it says GROUND but there is no ground atached to it..? Hope this helps, if it does let me know I'd like to take some credit for discovering something. Thanks for reading.

[webbob1]

Thanks to the tip from tednjqb and the other numerous posts I figured out the solution to the problem. First replacing the speedo head is a waste of money, there's nothing wrong with it. The problem is the metal of the mounting screws. After removal of the speedometer assembly you will need to unsnap the clear plastic cover in front of the gauges so the speedometer can be removed. On the back of the assembly you'll notice 5 screws that hold the speedometer head in place. The problem is these screws have some oxidation on them preventing a good connection to ground. All you need to do is remove the screws which enables you to remove the speedo head. Use a wire brush and clean contact points on circuit board and clean screws too. Replace speedo head, tighten screws and put assembly back in dash. Your speedometer should work now and it won't cost you a cent.

[cdunsky]

OK, this thread has been active for a few years and many possible root causes for the known speedo symptom have been advanced by you all. Here's my own tale of woe with this; I'm just beginning to try to sort it out:

I too have a '99 Outback and the speedo quit working back in April. I don't recall exactly what I did at that point but it started working again and I thought "problem solved." Not quite: the problem re-occurred this past week. It is more than the zero reading of the speedo. In fact, before the speedo went dead the other symptoms I'd seen back in April appeared:

1. Check Engine light came on
2. Power greatly decreased (couldn't accelerate to save my life)
3. Low idle speed
4. Very rough idle: the car shakes

#2-4 above suggested to me that somehow the engine wasn't firing on all cylinders. I recalled that in April I'd had the ECU codes read and it pointed to the VSS as the root cause. I'd balked at replacing one or both of them, though, since it was an expensive crap shoot and the problem seems to resolve with whatever I or the local shop did (e.g., cleaned the battery terminals..?)

This time, the ECU code again says the VSS is at fault. But I still wonder: do the above symptoms indicate that the VSS is really bad? If so, why would the problem be intermittent? (Forgot to mention that when I first start the car, symptoms 2-4 above don't appear; only when it's been run awhile (5-10 mins) does the power diminsh, etc.) If the sensor was bad, would it go bad in a gradual-failure manner that could cause the problem intermittently? My gut tells me that's unlikely.

OR... could there be some other root cause that is causing the VSS to RESPOND or function intermittently, though the sensor itself is OK?

Then, on another auto forum, I found the following commentary on the problem:

2007-03-27 00:00:00 Midlothian, VA
Speedometer fails spontaneously, intermittently and frequently. indicated speed drops to zero. returns spontaneously after 10 seconds to 15 minutes. not vehicle speed sensor (vss) or wiring/connector related. service technician found speedometer circuit board delaminated, causing components to separate from circuit board. stated this appeared to be caused by oem sealant used on the circuit boards as seen in other subarus and many honda vehicles. speedometer is an obvious safety and legal liability component, which provides critical feedback to vehicle operator. many other failures reported on internet. recall should be issued if further investigation confirms defect frequency.


Now, this is pretty interesting, and I haven't seen it reported elsewhere on Internet auto forums. It's the kind of failure that is classically hard to find. And it's something that could understandably lead people to conclude that other things are the root cause when their troubleshooting or repair attempts inadvertently move or flex the circuit board, restoring its original state (i.e., eliminating the short or open that the delamination is causing). It's also the sort of thing that could explain the fact that, on my car at least, the symptoms only show up when the car is warmed up (the idea being that the circuit board heats up, distorts, and the short or open rears its ugly head).

So here's my question: is it possible that such a circuit problem could cause the VSS to function intermittently - and that the intermittent signal (or power) delivered the the VSS could cause it to thereby screw up the mixture being fed to the cylinders so badly that the power drops dramatically? And would that be consistent with the fact that my speedo is now reading zero at all times (not intermittently), even though the engine's poor-perfomance (low power) symptom is not continuous?

Thanks, all, for reading through this long post. Looking forward to reading your comments.

[tanwagonman]

It's now 3 years later and my speedohead has failed again. I'm going to try and get Subaru Canada to confess that they have a defect, but I'm not that hopeful. Very disappointed in the quality of the product.

['51 Roadmaster]

Just read through the posts on '99 speedo problems. My '99 Legacy "L" wagon has 98K miles. Bought in Sept '06, previous owner appears to have given it lots of TLC. Only problem so far had been replacing an alternator about six months ago. In the past 4-6 weeks, speedometer has been misbehaving just as others have described. With no warning, speedometer stops working entirely (i.e., more than just giving a "false" reading), then, abruptly starts working again, for a while. Appreciate advice given by others, really appreciate caution about speedo units from junkyards! This may be new information: In 2-1/2 years I have had car, it has always been parked outside, and sometimes is not driven for several days at a time. I live in a climate that can be very damp and very cold.

[msnlink]

It appears that this forum has essentially died, but I want to share recent experience concerning Subaru speedometer issues. May help.

Son has 1999 Outback with same intermittent speedo issues. Also there was other evidence of electrical issues in the car (warning buzzer was weak, radio worked sometimes, etc). We took instrument cluster out of car and tested voltage being received at the back of the 5-pin connector. Voltage started high but declined as car accelerated which we assumed was normal as speed was working. We removed speedo head from cluster and connected back to 5-pin connector again measuring voltage on each side of the connection. There is where we noticed discrepancy. Voltage would drop occasionally when car was not running. We removed female of 5-pin connector and resoldered connections. Now we have stable voltage on both sides of the connector. We also removed oxidation from screws holding head in the cluster as it appeared that provided grounding to entire cluster. After reconnecting all of the couplers to the back of the cluster speedo works well and has consistently. Also removed other electrical issues with interior. Bad thing now is that odometer records mileage twice as fast. Not sure what to do.
Since this site is not very active, any suggestions are welcomed via email. Please send to kaneable991@comcast.net