The U.S. scores with the Skyline. What about the GT-R?

[Morpheus XIII]

There have been many rumors running around about a U.S. Skyline, some confirmed while others not. Most of us yanks were displeased with the unveiling of the V35 Skyline across the Pacific--no RB powerplant, missing round taillights, lost aggressiveness. We all wondered, was this IT? And more importantly, what do we get?

So many of us now know the V35 Skyline WILL sign aboard with Infiniti in the U.S. as the G35 (the numerical nomenclature coincidence is still boggling). But now we are hearing of Japan's new GT-R upcoming debut. Once again, will it see the light of day on our shores?

Well, I'll go with Eddie Alterman's prediction written in his article below, taken from the September 2001 issue of Automobile Magazine:

Infinite Possibilites

Infiniti's G35 could pave the way for an American Skyline GT-R
Taking a page from the Lexus playbook, Infiniti will augment its front-wheel-drive, near luxury offering (the I35) with the 2003 rear-wheel-drive G35 sedan, also in the same category. Like Lexus’s IS300, the G35 will skew toward the sportier side of the near-luxury spectrum, while the I35 like the new ES300, aims for swank.
The G35 first was seen at 1999’s Tokyo Motor Show as the Nissan XVL. Nissan’s home-market version of the G35, which has just gone on sale in Japan, wears the vaunted Skyline badge. Unlike the U.S.-bound 3.5 liter Infiniti, Nissan’s Skyline GT sedan gets V-6 engines in 2.5- and 3.0-liter displacements only, with power ranging from 212 to 256 hp. The G35’s V-6 might not produce any more power than the I35’s 260 ponies, and Infiniti is reluctant at this point to give hard numbers. But this much is known: The car’s V-6 is positioned aft of its front axle line, giving the G35 a front/mid-engine layout and conferring a front/rear weight distribution of 52/48 percent.
When the G35 arrives here next spring, it will precede, by a few months, the Japanese release of a Skyline GT-R coupe. The GT-R won’t be a simple two-door reskinning of the Skyline GT sedan, however. As befits a supercoupe, the GT-R will look far more aggressive than the GT sedan, retaining the round taillights that have become a GT-R signature. And this new mega-Skyline will hew to the current car’s twin-turbo V-6, all-wheel-drive, road-mauling formula.
According to sources, an American version of the GT-R has roughly a fifty-fifty chance of materializing. If it does, the federalized GT-R likely will use the 4.5-liter V-8 from the Infiniti Q45. Supposedly, this would be at least a $50,000 car. The question Infiniti is wrestling with is whether a $50,000 GT-R would seem credible to well-heeled buyers with Mercedes-Benz CLK430s on the brain.

--Eddie Altermoon


We were lucky enough to hit one mark with the G35. It's good to know Japan is going to make one hell of a new GT-R. Our dreams would be answered if we were to finally get this beast.

[SkylineGTS25t]

Nope, sorry, my dreams arent answered. Nice offering, but I want the real thing. I want the RB engine, the round tail-lights, the R32/33/34 styling. Not some overpriced rebadged Nissan, which is all most Infinit's are. All they are doing is seeing how much they can milk out of it. They are going for a class of people who have no clue what a Skyline is or what it can do. They could sell it as a Nissan at a reasonable price and all the right people will buy it. But no, to them, the auto buying demographic are old people, yuppies, soccer moms and maniacal sport ute drivers. So therefore they slap on the Infiniti badge, up the price by 20-30k. This is how all car makers screw the US. Its just like GM and Ford. They sell great cars around the world, but when it comes to the US, their homeland, they bend us over every time. They ditch the Camaro in favour of a supercharged Sunfire/Cavalier all because the Camaros sales were dwindling. Well let me tell you why they dwindeled. You wanted too much for the damned car. Older people werent buying because they wanted other cars, and younger people couldnt afford it. Plain and simple, they priced and marketed it out of existence. They will probably do the same with the Skyline.

And fuck Motorex too. Ill find a way to get a legal damned Skyline for cheaper if it is the last thing I do.

I dont believe this shit. Im supposed to be living in the epitome of the free world, and I cant even decide what I get to drive for myself. All I ask for in life to be happy is a god damned ruby red R32/33 Skyline GTS25t Type M and can I get one? No, not without paying 40k+ to Motorex or going through a whole bunch of bullshit. Whats the big fuckin deal? Just give me the fuckin car. I dont know who made these importation and emissions laws, but it sure as hell wasnt me, and I didnt elect them either. This is straight Bullshit. If anyone knows where I can get the above mentioned Skyline in the states for under $25,000, let me know.

[Morpheus XIII]

Good calls.

On a side note, many sources are stating the passage to the U.S. for the R35 GT-R is highly likely, especially with the concept car (round-taillamps and all, but unfortunately no RB) sporting left-hand-drive, boldly stating its international intentions. Of course, this car is obviously a life-line last ditch effort to save Nissan's sports image, while preserving the company economically. Don't get me wrong, so far it's not a bad car, and it's awesome even--but it's just not R32-34 GT-R.

So this is old news. Now, what about coupe bodied GTs? Will they be permanently dropped from the Skyline model range? So far we are only seeing GT sedans and GT-R coupes, but still no GT or GT-S or GT-T coupes. More cost cutting?

[Whitebread]

I'm with skylinegt. I want everything the Skyline R34 GT-R V-SPEC II has now except in left hand drive. I wan not impressed with the American concept. There is nothing that can even link it to the Japanese skylines right now. I'm really disapointed.

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by Whitebread
I'm with skylinegt. I want everything the Skyline R34 GT-R V-SPEC II has now except in left hand drive.

Funny you say that. It's impossible to make an R32-34 GT-R Vspec-II left hand-drive. Not only was it reasons like emissions, empty market, and such which deterred Nissan from sending the GT-Rs to the U.S., but it was impossible to use the current RB26DETT in left hand-drive configuration: the steering shaft would have to go right through the twin-turbos. A mirror image engine would be way too costly (and would be no good for us, since we want imported aftermarket parts as well).

You guys ask WAY too much from a failed japanese automaker who is currently owned 40% by Renault. I'm happy with the GT-R concept as of right now. I know they aren't going to keep the odd headlights lights for production, and even without the RB there is hope for plenty of power with the VQ35 under heavy development, and a possibility of turbochargers or maybe the Cima/Q's V-8. Parts-sharing is just a way to save money and cut costs; think, if Nissan goes broke, there will be no more Skylines or GT-Rs ever again. The next GT-R isn't everything you'd hoped that it would be, but it's better than nothing; actually much better than most expected Nissan could recover from their failing business (and you have to understand how close Nissan came to becoming 'nothing').

From the way things are forming at the house of Infiniti I have to comment further on the G35/Skyline GT. It's a great car. I'd rather have one than an IS300/Altezza, or even a 325 saloon bimmer for that matter. All great cars, but that's just my preference. Anyways, enough about the GT-R, what do you guys think of THIS car?

[Whitebread]

I know it can't be converted and I also know of Nissians problems but I can still dream............can't I?

[SkylineGTS25t]

Originally posted by Morpheus XIII
Anyways, enough about the GT-R, what do you guys think of THIS car?

I already told you what I think about it. I do not think it is a worthy successor to the Skyline name(even though its not gonna be a Skyline here). The Styling isnt inspiring. The fact that there most likely will be no Coupe form of it makes me sick, and on top of that its going to be an Infiniti. Maybe if they would have designed it to replace one of their other models(Maxima, Q45, anything else that is FWD that could use to be RWD for just once in its life) it wouldnt make me so bitter. But for them to try and pass it off as a Skyline and then totally piss on America and send it to us as an over-priced Infiniti, thats the brakes!(no pun intended)

IMHO, if Nissan wants to use a shared platform to save money, fine. Im all for it. But give it that Skyline sense of styling, you know? That car does nothing for me. The design is blah. Im sure the car is very advanced technologically, but to pass THAT as a Skyline is sickening. I look at R-30's and R-31's and I can see the styling cues that were carried over. They, even though they are dated, strike me. There is this sporty sense about them, even though some of them are not all that sporty, especially by todays standards. Then I look at the R-32. Hell, even in Sedan form, this puppy looks downright VIOLENT!!! It says dont fuck with me. The looks are absolutely gorgeous. The R-33 and R-34 continue this. Then we hit this new Infiniti wonder car. It looks to me like they are trying to market it to all the wrong people(which they are by badging it an Infiniti and pricing it so high). If Nissan wants to save their image, they need to start making performance cars that can be afforded by the people that truly want them. The 240SX was the last car they sold to the US market that did that(and even it got a little pricey towards the end there). And the proposed new GT-R enters into a teritory that is a little dicey. When you start wanting to price a car at $70,000 you run into trouble. Everyone that can afford that is already buying a Porsche, Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi or the like. Nissan isnt exactly a car company that you think of when you think of that price range. The 350Z(Funny, the 350Z is the only thing they will send us without changing the name...) probably wont run into a huge problem with its pricing(though I feel it probably will be high in price; probably $35-50,000) as it will probably do well in its price range.

If you ask me, Nissan could do a little more to save their asses if they they are already that far into the sling. They could start by acually giving us something worth our time. Hell, if they came out with a new Silvia/240/180(and keep them all RWD, unlike their competitors who all sell FWD cars now...) variant here, and it was well equipped(with maybe an RB20DET for the Silvia, SR20DET for the 240 and of course the CA18DET for the 180) and priced well(no more than say the price of a WRX for the Silvia, and less for the 240, and even less for the 180), Id go put a down payment on one and drive it off the lot right now. Wow, I just created three new models in a spot that they would DOMINATE here if they priced the cars accordingly. Especially with the absence of the Camaro/Firebird, and the Mustang about to go GT more than muscle/pony car. Its only competition would be the WRX, the forthcoming Lancer EVO and a few other cars.

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by SkylineGTS25t

...The fact that there most likely will be no Coupe form of it makes me sick, and on top of that its going to be an Infiniti...

The GT-R Concept is coming along to the production room just fine; and gearing for international sales, at that.

Originally posted by SkylineGTS25t
Maybe if they would have designed it to replace one of their other models(Maxima, Q45, anything else that is FWD that could use to be RWD for just once in its life) it wouldnt make me so bitter. But for them to try and pass it off as a Skyline and then totally piss on America and send it to us as an over-priced Infiniti, thats the brakes!(no pun intended)...

Let's clear up something here. I'm sure you all know this, but I want to make it a firm point: Nissan is separating the 'Skyline' and 'GT-R' placards. That's why the Skyline GT sedan is not what you expect it to be. The V35 Skyline is designed to compete with the Toyota Altezza, BMW 3-series, Jaguar X-type, and all those other smaller rear-wheel-drive sports sedans. The GT-R on the other hand is to be the sole grand tourer, not even retaining the name Skyline in any way or form. They are now two completely separate cars, so we can't compare the current Skylines with older Skylines.

Furthermore, Nissan can't replace their Cefiro/I35 front-wheel-drive sedans with the V35 Skyline GT sedan/G35 because there is still a competetive market for front-wheel-drivers with emphasis on the luxury end of the spectrum. Lexus still has their Windom/ES300 which still sells well, especially now with a complete make-over. Even Honda has their Saber/3.2TL mid-sized luxo in this section of the market. Let's face it, some like more pampering, some like more aggression. The people need both classes.

By the way, the Q45 has always been, and will always be rear-wheel drive.

Originally posted by SkylineGTS25t
...The 350Z(Funny, the 350Z is the only thing they will send us without changing the name...) probably wont run into a huge problem with its pricing(though I feel it probably will be high in price; probably $35-50,000) as it will probably do well in its price range.

Nope, can't leave the Z car out. It's still known as Fairlady Z in Japan. And they must change the name to 350Z. It's always been in alphanumerical form for decades; it would be foolish to change the form of the name, if they are attempting to "revive" a legend. And another thing, the 350Z will be priced near $29,000, NOT "$35-50,000". The whole point of the next Z is to make it a "back-to-basics" affordable GT, just as it was when it was first released as the 240Z.

Originally posted by SkylineGTS25t
...If you ask me, Nissan could do a little more to save their asses if they they are already that far into the sling. They could start by acually giving us something worth our time. Hell, if they came out with a new Silvia/240/180(and keep them all RWD, unlike their competitors who all sell FWD cars now...) variant here, and it was well equipped(with maybe an RB20DET for the Silvia, SR20DET for the 240 and of course the CA18DET for the 180) and priced well(no more than say the price of a WRX for the Silvia, and less for the 240, and even less for the 180), Id go put a down payment on one and drive it off the lot right now. Wow, I just created three new models in a spot that they would DOMINATE here if they priced the cars accordingly. Especially with the absence of the Camaro/Firebird, and the Mustang about to go GT more than muscle/pony car. Its only competition would be the WRX, the forthcoming Lancer EVO and a few other cars.

What? CA18DET? That 10 year old thing? Isn't it obvious why Nissan never gave the U.S. 240SX the original DET engines anyway? There's no torque! They figured the American consumers wouldn't 'get' what turbo cars are all about--especially during an era when rear-wheel-drive sports cars need big torquey engines. Just because you and I want cars like the Silvia, doesn't mean the mass majority will want them. Don't blame Nissan, blame the public for being ignorant and close minded about other types of technology.

[SkylineGTS25t]

Originally posted by Morpheus XIII


The GT-R Concept is coming along to the production room just fine; and gearing for international sales, at that.

I understand that, but it isnt exactly based on the same platform as the Skyline G35, so that does not answer my coupe question.

Let's clear up something here. I'm sure you all know this, but I want to make it a firm point: Nissan is separating the 'Skyline' and 'GT-R' placards. That's why the Skyline GT sedan is not what you expect it to be. The V35 Skyline is designed to compete with the Toyota Altezza, BMW 3-series, Jaguar X-type, and all those other smaller rear-wheel-drive sports sedans. The GT-R on the other hand is to be the sole grand tourer, not even retaining the name Skyline in any way or form. They are now two completely separate cars, so we can't compare the current Skylines with older Skylines.

This is fine that they wish to separate the Skyline and the GT-R. But I feel that there should still be a coupe form of the GT sedan. And they could have done a better styling job. Look at the Altima for chrissakes. It finally says the same thing to me that the R-32 did. The styling on the front end looks like ass. The headlights look funny, and it just has an odd shape. And they can still compete with those sports sedans and keep the RB26DETT engine. Lord knows the afore mentioned sedans cant hang with a Vette. With the RB26DETT, it would be foolish to buy any of the others. And why cant they just sell it as a Nissan instead of this stupid diatribe with following suite behind Toyota(Lexus) and Honda(Acura)?

Furthermore, Nissan can't replace their Cefiro/I35 front-wheel-drive sedans with the V35 Skyline GT sedan/G35 because there is still a competetive market for front-wheel-drivers with emphasis on the luxury end of the spectrum. Lexus still has their Windom/ES300 which still sells well, especially now with a complete make-over. Even Honda has their Saber/3.2TL mid-sized luxo in this section of the market. Let's face it, some like more pampering, some like more aggression. The people need both classes.

This is fine as well, but what about the Maxima? It could use a redesign(aside from the one it just got).

By the way, the Q45 has always been, and will always be rear-wheel drive.

I know, I wasnt calling it into question, just saying maybe this could be a possible design for it.

Nope, can't leave the Z car out. It's still known as Fairlady Z in Japan. And they must change the name to 350Z. It's always been in alphanumerical form for decades; it would be foolish to change the form of the name, if they are attempting to "revive" a legend. And another thing, the 350Z will be priced near $29,000, NOT "$35-50,000". The whole point of the next Z is to make it a "back-to-basics" affordable GT, just as it was when it was first released as the 240Z.

There were 300Z's here(just saw one the other day) Labeled Fairlady. I was gussing on the price too, as I had no idea. I just figured that would be around what they might want for it. But $29,000 sounds even better. Id have payed 35 for it though(The Z is worth it).

What? CA18DET? That 10 year old thing? Isn't it obvious why Nissan never gave the U.S. 240SX the original DET engines anyway? There's no torque! They figured the American consumers wouldn't 'get' what turbo cars are all about--especially during an era when rear-wheel-drive sports cars need big torquey engines. Just because you and I want cars like the Silvia, doesn't mean the mass majority will want them. Don't blame Nissan, blame the public for being ignorant and close minded about other types of technology.

Ok, they have no torque. Drifters sure seem to like it though. I still feel cheated, though. But I look at it like this, They have no car to compete with the RSX, or the WRX, or the EVO when it gets here. The Silvia, 240SX, and 180SX would do it for them. All based on the same platform, with slightly different designs and engines, they would sell the hell out of them.

[Morpheus XIII]

Yeah, I hear the pleas. God knows how long we've waited for any of the half-decent stuff from Japan, but I think this is just the beginning. After all we are just starting to see products like the WRX come over. And Nissan in particular is going to need some years to rebuild itself under Ghosn's rule. Let's just hope the rest of the country eventually gets the same itch for authentic japanese performance.

One thing though:

Originally posted by SkylineGTS25t
I understand that, but it isnt exactly based on the same platform as the Skyline G35, so that does not answer my coupe question.

Believe it or not, the GT-R Concept is also built on the same platform chassis as the V35 Skyline GT/G35. And so are the 350Zs, new Altimas, and new Stageas, for that matter. Multiplatforming was one of Carlos Ghosn's prime directives for the restructuring of Nissan, and so developers created the XVL Concept show car which founded the chassis for all of Ghosn's multiplatforming needs. The same goes for the VQ35 engine. Nissan needed one block capable of delivering both torque and horserpower to become the new leader of class in power; they can be found on Pathfinders, Altimas, Maximas, I35s, and soon on G35s, 350Zs, and possibly the next Infiniti X35 (U.S. bound GT-R).

[SkylineGTS25t]

I have no problem with building cars on the same platform to cut costs. I never knew Nissan was in that much trouble. But here we go again, it all comes down to the same thing. Why Infiniti? Why cant they just call them all Nissans and keep them named the same. It would avoid confusion. It would make it easier to call Japan and say "Hey, I need parts for this Bluebird ova here", Rather than having to figure out what the hell they call it over here and what it is over there. G35 and X35, close enough in name to remind us, but really cant it just be a Nissan Skyline and said split name plate Nissan GT-R? If there is one thing that pisses me off most about Japanese car makers, its the roundabout they put us through when naming their vehicles. Cut the Infiniti and Lexus and Acura and all that bull shit and sell it to me straight. They dont sell them that way over there.

[Morpheus XIII]

I know what you mean. Off the top of my head, I don't think Nissan has ANY cars in the U.S. that has the same name as the corresponding model in Japan. Even Honda is starting to go the same way, which can be seen with the renamed Integra/RS-X, following the renamed TL and RL. But the statistics show that the American public can be fooled into thinking that a car is way better when it's sold by a "luxury" automaker. Other strategies include using alphanumerics, much like German luxury car companies have always done.

It gets pretty confusing at times, but you can get used to it if you keep at it. I know most of you know this, but just for fun, I will write up the current corresponding names for Nissan and Toyota below.

Nissan & Infiniti (U.S./Japan):

Q45/Cima
I35/Cefiro
G35/Skyline
G20/Primera
350Z/Fairlady Z
QX4, Pathfinder/Terrano
Frontier/Datsun
Sentra/Sunny (sort of)
X35/GT-R (to be confirmed)

Will there be a Japanese counterpart for the FX45 when it is released next Spring?

Toyota & Lexus (U.S./Japan)
LS430/Celsior
GS430/Aristo
SC430/Soarer
ES300/Windom
IS300/Altezza
IS300 Sportcross/Altezza Gita
LX430/Land Cruiser Cygnus
RX300/Harrier
ECHO/Platz
Avalon/Pronard
Camry/Camry
Celica/Celica
MR2 Spyder/MR-S
Prius/Prius
Land Cruiser/Land Cruiser 100
Tacoma/Hilux Pickup
4Runner/Hilux Surf
Highlander/Kluger V
RAV4/RAV4

Is there a Japanese counterpart for the Tundra frame, meaning the Tundra pickup and the Sequoia?