Ducati 996 R

[Z_Fanatic]

You can't simply just blame Ducati's inability to win just on the riders. Look at Suzuki, they've tried for years, but they simply couldn't keep up with Honda and Yamaha going back to the days of 500s. I think Hopkins could've been just as good as Hayden if Suzuki got their acts together. Rossi is a different story, he takes it as a challenge to be a fast rider rather than concentrate of business aspect of racing, plus he's had good manufacturers supporting him with a strong pedigree of racing and racing affiliates. I really wanted him too keep on GP racing, but with different brands, perhaps struggling Ducati or Suzuki, instead of retiring on 07.

No, I never rode a Ducati 916, and thus cannot comment on it's handling traits, and only can insinuate what other have claimed, just as you expressed your view. But after having owned three bikes of my own, all radically different than one another, and have ridden the older Honda CR125, and Nighthawk 250 (v-twin model?), I can definitely say with confidence that weight of a bike makes a world of difference.

We can all debate how much the stability is there on different chasis, but lighter weight makes the bike that much more nimble and flickable. In my book, that helps tremendously when running wide and too hot for the curve, a stable bike won't necessarily react quickly without conscious effort, while it's much easier to change mid corner lines and enter the turn faster.

My old SV could run circles around the F4, despite Honda providing better front end weight and stability. And I bet you could run circles around your old Duc with the R6. Suspension has a lot to do with these sort of factors, but it can't replace the added advantage of reduced weight. Consider this, F4 in its day offered arrays of suspension adjusting capabilities, and when SV came about, same year, but cheap and crappy suspension, yet for the average rider, SV is much easier to throw into corner for its light weight and smaller tire profiles. While F4 may soak up bumps better at high speed, but that's because it has better suspension than SV. IMO, chasis on modern bikes are too good for the average rider.

Ducati chasis is stable, but it also came with Ohlins and Marchesini trick stuff for the high end model, homologated version of their race bikes. Fit similar suspension into Japanese bikes, and you get an equally capable bike. It's one of the reason why Japanese bikes advanced this far, their suspension have greatly improved, while still managed to be inexpensive for the average buyer.

[DealsGap]

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

You can't simply just blame Ducati's inability to win just on the riders. Look at Suzuki, they've tried for years, but they simply couldn't keep up with Honda and Yamaha going back to the days of 500s. I think Hopkins could've been just as good as Hayden if Suzuki got their acts together. Rossi is a different story, he takes it as a challenge to be a fast rider rather than concentrate of business aspect of racing, plus he's had good manufacturers supporting him with a strong pedigree of racing and racing affiliates. I really wanted him too keep on GP racing, but with different brands, perhaps struggling Ducati or Suzuki, instead of retiring on 07.

How else do you explain Gibernau climbing aboard the Desmosedici and out lapping everyone in '06 testing on the same machine that Capirossi struggled on all season, if not for rider inadequacy? The number of riders capable of winning a MotoGP championship is incredibly small. If one of those contenders isn't aboard your machine, it doesn't matter how good of a package you put together.

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

No, I never rode a Ducati 916, and thus cannot comment on it's handling traits, and only can insinuate what other have claimed, just as you expressed your view. But after having owned three bikes of my own, all radically different than one another, and have ridden the older Honda CR125, and Nighthawk 250 (v-twin model?), I can definitely say with confidence that weight of a bike makes a world of difference.

Don't fall into the trap of bench racing with spec sheets. It's never accurate.

I'm not even going to bother looking up the weight of the 916 for two reasons. 1) I have ridden the bike and I know exactly how it handles in various riding scenarios. 2) The bike won 10 WSBK championships. Whether or not Kawasaki's bike was 15 lbs lighter or not makes absolutely no difference. It obviously wasn't as capable as the 916 was, which is hardly even a debatable topic. That bike was head and shoulders above the rest of the field, or it wouldn't have done what it did. That has been clearly expressed by everyone who had the privilege of racing one, or even riding the street version compared to the Japanese street bikes of the time. Do I need to remind you of when Chili lost his factory ride, pulled out his PRIVATEER Ducati 996 and proceeded to outrun every factory bike on the grid?

Originally Posted by Z_Fanatic

We can all debate how much the stability is there on different chassis, but lighter weight makes the bike that much more nimble and flickable. In my book, that helps tremendously when running wide and too hot for the curve, a stable bike won't necessarily react quickly without conscious effort, while it's much easier to change mid corner lines and enter the turn faster.

My old SV could run circles around the F4, despite Honda providing better front end weight and stability. And I bet you could run circles around your old Duc with the R6. Suspension has a lot to do with these sort of factors, but it can't replace the added advantage of reduced weight. Consider this, F4 in its day offered arrays of suspension adjusting capabilities, and when SV came about, same year, but cheap and crappy suspension, yet for the average rider, SV is much easier to throw into corner for its light weight and smaller tire profiles. While F4 may soak up bumps better at high speed, but that's because it has better suspension than SV. IMO, chasis on modern bikes are too good for the average rider.

Ducati chasis is stable, but it also came with Ohlins and Marchesini trick stuff for the high end model, homologated version of their race bikes. Fit similar suspension into Japanese bikes, and you get an equally capable bike. It's one of the reason why Japanese bikes advanced this far, their suspension have greatly improved, while still managed to be inexpensive for the average buyer.

Just making suspension changes and reciprocating mass reduction is not going to make up for inferior chassis dynamics. If it did, the japanese bikes wouldn't have been so far behind in that era. Again, it's the total package that makes a bike a winner.

[tran_nsx]

i read awhile back ago an article about duc's and it's use of engine type was actually outdated and this was from a ducati page. can't recall exactly, but i think they explained that the only reason why they still implement a v-twin is because of tradition and heritage. however, they did found ways to extract more power though. personally, although i think ducati makes awesome bikes, i think ethnicity plays an issue, just because it's italian, people tend to think it's far superior, elite, and exotic then the japs, which i disagree. just my 2 cents

[yellowzx]

i have a 749 and i love it, nothing has fallen off yet and i think the sound of the dry clutch is sexxy as hell.