Fuel injector cleaners tests

[ivymike1031]

Well if that's what the results showed, I'd assume you'd conclude that the "cleaners" were not worth the money. Based on personal observations, I'd say that even the cheap ones work better than gas, but it would be nice to have quantitative evidence.

[sciguyjim]

Yeah, the cleaners are not really worth the money (which doesn't mean they don't work.) That's why I suggest buying a good solvent like toluene for about 8$/gallon at a hardware store and adding that to your tank. You get more for your money. And, It won't hurt anything in your engine because gasoline already contains toluene & other chemicals like it.

I could try to reproduce my tests to get a comparison for gas, but my "lab" is really my kitchen and I think I'd get sick of smelling gasoline fumes in my house. None of the other things tested had a smell nearly as strong as gasoline.

[texan]

Basically, any engine additive/cleaner/friction reducer is usually snake oil. It's a lot like saying the whole drivetrain system, which has been continually developed and perfected over the last 150 years, is also so flawed that some little bottle of wonder goo will solve all your ills. In reality, if anything is fundamentally wrong with the design, that bottle of goo is about as likely to fix it as you are to be bitten by a rabid pig while simultaneously being struck by lightning and attacked by mutant, ill tempered sea bass.

Note: if you really want injectors to be clean, send them in for flushing. Much like rebuilding an engine or cleaning out the coolant system, ithe injectors need to be treated to a chemical bath off their fuel rail and in the presence of something other than regular gasoline. Also remember that pintle style injectors are the only ones which routinely show evidence of clogging over long time periods, Lucas disc injectors are pretty much uncloggable (is that a word?).

[sciguyjim]

Originally posted by texan
Note: if you really want injectors to be clean, send them in for flushing. Much like rebuilding an engine or cleaning out the coolant system, ithe injectors need to be treated to a chemical bath off their fuel rail and in the presence of something other than regular gasoline. Also remember that pintle style injectors are the only ones which routinely show evidence of clogging over long time periods, Lucas disc injectors are pretty much uncloggable (is that a word?).

I agree. I've heard that's the best way to get them cleaned. It's just that we like to hope a quick, inexpensive method will solve our problems.

I've heard that current design injectors don't clog like those years ago.

"Uncloggable" is now officially a word. I'll give you full credit for it.

[ivymike1031]

Basically, any engine additive/cleaner/friction reducer is usually snake oil. It's a lot like saying the whole drivetrain system, which has been continually developed and perfected over the last 150 years, is also so flawed that some little bottle of wonder goo will solve all your ills.

That may be true for a large number of products, but it's not universally true. I don't think that the usefulness of bottles of "wonder goo" says anything about the design of an engine either. Engines don't work very well without motor oil, do they? Why would you expect that every other bottled product performs a function already addressed through the engine design?

I don't see anything conceptually wrong with using a strong solvent to clean fuel injectors in-situ. It's certainly much more cost- and time-effective. When my girlfriend's car ('97 Civic) starts to idle rough, a bottle of fuel injector cleaner seems to fix it right up. It seems to work remarkably well - usually within a few minutes of adding the stuff to the tank, the car is idling noticeably smoother. (This has only happened twice in 125,000 miles.)

Here are some other "wonder-goo" products that don't seem like snake oil to me (besides fuel injector cleaner):
* red line "water-wetter," which, according to some of my peers in cooling system design, actually can improve cooling system performance in certain situations
* "hard block," which can be used to reinforce weak cylinder liners, and can also be used to change the depth of a cooling jacket to improve coolant flow rates in the upper (more critical) portion
* fix-a-flat
* aerosol carb cleaner
* aerosol brake cleaner
* gasoline stabilizer (for storage)
* gasoline water remover
* diesel anti-gel
* "wire drier"
* gasket dressings
* radiator stop-leak, which admittedly is not a permanant solution, is certainly better than being in a jeep, on a rocky trail 30 miles from civilization, with no coolant.

I didn't mention any of the oil additives, because I don't know which of them work and which don't. I don't see any strong reason to believe that someone couldn't sell an aftermarket oil additive that would improve the lubricating performance of motor oil, or extend its life. Oil manufacturers use additives to improve oil performance straight out of the bottle, but they face stronger price constraints than someone (even themselves) selling a secondary add-on additive package.

[cbatters]

Interesting read... I had been looking for a test like this for some time.

Couple questions:

1. Any thoughts about why Techron (one of the more hyped and expensive cleaners) faired so poorly?

2. Any thoughts about Marvel Mystery Oil

Again - appreciate all the effort you put into this.


Clint

PS - If you send me some of the "tar" you used, I'll be happy to stink up my kitchen and see how well gasoline and Marvel do on the test.

[cbatters]

bluetwo - my personal observations: i always add a bottle of techron before every oil change, run the tank dry, refill, and then change the oil. i'm always amazed at how black the oil gets when i compare the oil color on my dipstick before and after techron treatments. whether or not it is the best, i do not know. it does appear, however, that it is doing something!

Implies that the techron has some interaction with crankcase oil which would have to be through blowby. Perhaps the Techron helps dissolve deposits on the piston/rings that are carried off by the oil?

bluetwo - Couple questions:

1. How many miles on engine?

2. What often do you change oil and what type of oil are you running?

3. How much oil does your engine consume?


Thanks in advance,

Clint

PS: I just tossed in a bottle of techron before finding this post. Will report what it does with my car. (91 Stealth RT/TT 150K miles)

[sciguyjim]

Originally posted by cbatters

Couple questions:

1. Any thoughts about why Techron (one of the more hyped and expensive cleaners) faired so poorly?

2. Any thoughts about Marvel Mystery Oil

PS - If you send me some of the "tar" you used, I'll be happy to stink up my kitchen and see how well gasoline and Marvel do on the test.

Clint,
I have no idea why Techron faired so poorly. Maybe Chevron just has a good advertising agency.

I haven't heard much about Marvel Mystery Oil, but that means nothing bad either.

The tar I used was ordinary tar from a local hardware store. I said I used a worst case sample. I'm sure both the gasoline and the Marvel will dissolve the tar, but the gas will dissolve it faster and more thoroughly, especially at room temp. This is because it has a thinner consistency and has smaller molecules. The oil would have to be heated to dissolve much of the oil in a short time. If you start heating oil and tar, do it gently in a sealed container or in a place where you have ventilation, and don't use open flames or exposed heating coils. You shouldn't need that much heat anyway.

[automotive_expert]

I personally prefer Royal Purple and Lucas, and have been using them for at least 5 years

[Black Lotus]

Originally Posted by sciguyjim

I guess I should have, I just didn't think of it at the time. How would I explain cleaning injectors by doing nothing but running more gas through them?

That works too.
Other independant injector cleaner tests have showed that NO aftermarket chemical cleaners will work well.
Only physical means like abrading the material or sonic vibration will work.

I have a car that spent a large part of its earlier life sitting, and one of its two supplemental injectors (it's turbocharged) got a bit gummed up and would leak into the intake plenum after the engine was shut off, made it hard to restart, and it would run bad until the fuel was cleared out of the plenum.
I might add that the offending injector looked perfect on the outside.
Sent both my injectors off to an injector specialist and they cleaned them utrasonically.
They came back looking exactly the same on the outside, but work spiffy.
Well worth the $60 I spent.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by automotive_expert

I personally prefer Royal Purple and Lucas, and have been using them for at least 5 years

Wow, so you've been using them for almost half as long as this thread had been dead!

-Rod