What counties have the best Automakers?

[CopperHed210]

What I ment is that Cadillac has some things Bently doesnt and vise versa.But NO car is worth 200 grand.Cadillacs are much better than BMW's.Im sorry but BMW doesnt come close to as good as Cadillac.Cadillacs last a lot longer,they have a better ride andyou get more for your money with Caddys.Night vision is a great invention.There are tons of accident a year were deer get hit by cars mostly in the evening and early moring.I just read on Popularmechanics.com that one of U.S's largest limo services is moving there limos from Lincolns to Cadillacs only because of night vision.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by La Temperanza

but none of them seem passionate enough about their cars, with the possible exception of Subaru and also Mazda.

If there is one manufactor is truely pasionate about makeing drivers cars its Honda.
Thier whole company philosophy is geared around motorsport.
Do a little resurch on thier history, and especialy on the history of Ashirio(sp??) Honda the founder and you will see what I mean.
And also note thier success out side Japan (F1, Indy etc) and in Japan. They are quite simply Japans most successfull manufactor when it comes to motorsport. Not even Toyota and Subaru with thier WRC wins come close.

Mazda would certianly come in 2nd, but its a distant 2nd, and only becasue of thier persistance with the Rotory engine.

Subarus even WRX's are however some of the most souless cars on the planet.



And CrazyJay how do you define emotion in a car?
Iv driven a Lotus Esprit at over 200kph, hung the tail out on an Elise, and done a power slide in a Maserati Bi-Turbo. Iv also side stepped a 100a Datsun cherry at 80kph on a wet road, run a Triumph 2500TC around a race track on its door handles and run the tyres off the rims of a Mini. Iv made a car dealer nearly wet himself in an SiR Civic, and shown a mate how his MK1 MR2 should be driven.
Its only a small selection of the cars I have been luckey enough to own and or drive, but it covers England, Italy and Japan, A car that in its prime was one of the fastest road cars avliable, and a car that was one of the slowest, and it covers 4 decades.
Yet all the cars despite all thier differnces have bucket loads of Emotion when driven.

You simply can't say that just because a car was made in a certian country by a certian manufactor it has no emotion.
Infact from my experiance some of the most mundane and boring looking cars can provide some of the most entertianing and enjoyable drives, while some flash cars intended to be sports models have been a complete let down, and no better than playing Playstation.

[crayzayjay]

How do i define emotion in a car?

thats a tough one... basically a car that has emotion is a car that just has something about it, something special that distinguishes it from other cars of its time, or in its class etc... It has to be entertaining to drive, it has to communicate with you, it has to make you smile so much you cant help laughing when youre driving the nuts off it. it has to have a little quirk.. it has to stay special. you have to look back at it at the end of a trip and want to fire it up and go round the block again... it has to have a nice interior, something a little special, something you want to sit back and gaze at... it has to look good on the outside, a shape you could never get tired of looking at... it has to stand out from the crowd.. you have to be able to form a bond with it, never want to let it go... it has to feel like an extension of your own body... this is emotion in a car...

ok you wont find many cars with all of the above, but some factors are most important than others, and for me a Japanese pocket rocket with a grey interior just has no new tricks for me. A lotus esprit, yes. A Maz bi-turbo? thats a bucket-full of character right there.. but a Honda Civic? No chance

[Moppie]

Originally posted by crayzayjay
A lotus esprit, yes. A Maz bi-turbo? thats a bucket-full of character right there.. but a Honda Civic? No chance

If you include body and interior design into the equation then the Civic is left out, but I have never rated a car on how it looks, I have only ever been interested in how it drives. And on purly how it drives my Civic deffinitly has plenty of emotion. Ill admit that 75% of that comes from the engine, but the Chassis is one of the best balanced and most well behaved that I ever driven, its certianly not the same class of car as the Lotus or Mazeriti, but a car does not have to be an exotic to exhibit emotion.

If you ever make it down this way ill take you for a drive and you will soon know what I mean.

[crayzayjay]

You've sold me on the Civic. I must admit i prefer the old ones to the new ones. Id still gladly go for the ride though

That reminds me, my dad had a Honda Prelude in the early 80's (which is actually still on the road); that was a pretty cool car for its time. I drove it a couple of years ago and remember being very impressed by the way it drove, some 20 years after it first ran! And i wasnt just poodling along!

Honda have fantastic engineers but the reason i judge their cars as not generating enough "emotion" is because of the way they are packaged. Theyre too cold, which ultimately blunts the experience. Like i said before, you cant say a Pulsar GTiR has an eighth of the emotion or character of an Integrale. Never mind it's not as good or fun to drive, look at the difference in the way they look. When i see an Integrale EVO, i stop in my tracks and stare. The Nissan however doesnt get a second glance. The attitude an EVO gives off is incredible, the Nissan looks cheap. Sitting inside a Special Edition EVO is fantastic, sitting in the Nissan is almost like sitting in any other Nissan Sunny. The Lancia has more mystique. This creates emotion. This is where the majority of Japanese contenders fall off.

[crayzayjay]

If you include body and interior design into the equation then the Civic is left out, but I have never rated a car on how it looks

neither have i, but then we're not talkin about how good the cars are but something entirely different

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Moppie


If there is one manufactor is truely pasionate about makeing drivers cars its Honda.

well.......They sertainly hae thier days of.....For example, all the smaller-engined DOHC VTEC cars like the B16a, B18c and H22a powered cars are all good drives, as are the NSX, S2000 and the Swindon-made Accord Type R.

However the rest of the cars like the Legend, Accord, Civic, SOHC Integras and Jazz aren't anything to write home about, while they are lively, they are very uninspiring to drive, in fact the Accord V6 is possibly the most boring car I have ever driven , infact Moppie it's shocking you consider an Accord a good drive I'd sooner take a 2.0 Twinspark 156 rather than a new Accord or evena 155 rather than the older models.

[Stefanel1]

of course an Alfa (even the "little engines") is much more exciting than an Accord.

[crayzayjay]

Accords arent bad cars.. ok theyre a little character-less, but theyre very competent and have a pretty good chassis...

[Jimster]

the European ones do but the US market ones (The only variation of the recent Accord that I have driven apart from a short spin in a Japanese SiR) are soggy in thier handling and chassis. Great engines though

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars
the European ones do but the US market ones

And there mate is the catch, thier made soft and lifeless for American tastes.
My mother however has a Vti Nelson Assembled Accord that gets along quite nicely thank you.

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Moppie


And there mate is the catch, thier made soft and lifeless for American tastes.
My mother however has a Vti Nelson Assembled Accord that gets along quite nicely thank you.

Well...........Well......My dad used to have a gen 6 VTiL V6 assembled in Nelson, I still though it was soggy and uninspiring, his 2.2 Nelson-built EXiS 5th Gen was much better

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars

his 2.2 Nelson-built EXiS 5th Gen was much better

Sounds like my mothers car, same engine, only it has VTi badges (no leather etc). I believe the V6s are ment to be bit softer as they appeal to a differnt market.
And the 2nd Nelson built car in my Family, as my Old dead Triumph was also built there. (but in 1973!)

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Moppie


Sounds like my mothers car, same engine, only it has VTi badges (no leather etc). I believe the V6s are ment to be bit softer as they appeal to a differnt market.
And the 2nd Nelson built car in my Family, as my Old dead Triumph was also built there. (but in 1973!)

well, not exactly, the VTi (Whic was a facelift 5th gen) had VTEC power, where as the pre-facelift (Such as my dads EXi-S) Nelson-built cars were not VTEC powered, except in the form of the imported VTiS.


The EXiS put out 104Kw, the VTi 107

[Moppie]

My mothers has a VTEC F series engine (2.2L SOHC) in it, and is built in Nelson.