Starting problem-1995 Achieva

[95OldsHO]

Car is a 1995 Achieva S 2.3L 5 spd. with about 132k.

Been chasing a stalling/no start problem for a few weeks now, car will run normally make several stops a day starting up after ok, then will crank over fine but wont start.

First time it happened I had the car towed home and it sat for a couple days, I went out and jumped started it since it was dead from my wife cranking it over when it died on her, once it had been charging long enough it started up and has ran fine the past week or so, though wasnt driven everyday. At that point I put in a inline fuel pressure gauge and took readings of ~22psi prior to startup, and ~38psi at idle.

The last day it ran I went to exchange a heater core for my other car because they had given me the wrong one, that place didnt have the correct part so I went to another, got my part, stopped at the store for a drink and when I came out to the car it started, but then died almost right away, I turned it off completely, sat a sec, and tried again, it just cranked over with the starter, after giving it a few more tries it barely starts and is barely idling, I lug it into another parking space and stop/it dies there. I work out a ride and come back to the car and try some more, it will start and barely idle at about 600rpm, if you touch the gas it wants to stall/cut out, I tried giving it some gas and it would rev a little or cut out and want to stall randomly. I checked the fuel pressure reading before startup a couple times while in the parking lot and it was a very low 2-5 psi.

I replaced the fuel pump with both strainers/filters and still have same condition, no fuel pressure with key on and engine off. I havent tried cranking it yet because the battery is near dead and is on the charger now, going to be trying that later today. Fuel filter was replaced about 3 months ago also. During the pump change I could blow air through the fuel filter easily and it did not seem clogged. I also replaced the oil pressure sensor with one I had from another head.

There is about 1/4 of a tank and there is definitly no pressure in the lines -I removed one after trying to pressurize the system a few times and it had little fuel in it and it wasnt under any pressure, I can hear something happening when the key is turned to the run position like normal though.

Only other thing I can think to check is the pump relay, and for power at the fuse, at the relay and I guess at the pump. I see 4 relay's in the engine bay though and I am not sure which is the one for the fuel pump, how can you tell?

Thanks for any help.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by 95OldsHO

Car is a 1995 Achieva S 2.3L 5 spd. with about 132k.

Been chasing a stalling/no start problem for a few weeks now, car will run normally make several stops a day starting up after ok, then will crank over fine but wont start.

Only other thing I can think to check is the pump relay, and for power at the fuse, at the relay and I guess at the pump. I see 4 relay's in the engine bay though and I am not sure which is the one for the fuel pump, how can you tell?

Thanks for any help.

The fuel pump relay is a good starting point based on your symptoms. If you have the owner's manual the fuse locations should be in it. Also, have you checked the back of the fuse box lid to see if there is a placard showing all fuses and relays?

[95OldsHO]

I have the manual(several) and they give the correct location for the relay's(there are 4 grouped together)but the layout they show is differant, mine are all 4 in a row, whereas in the manual they show one off to the side and another is stacked on top of one so it doesnt help me much there.

The "fuse box" is inside the car, and it has the fuses labeled, thankfully, but it is separate from these relay's, which are mounted above the pass. side strut in the engine bay.

Didnt have a chance to test for power yet at specific points in the system, hoping to get to that this afternoon.

I wanted to add two things that could be related, in the past before I owned it the car fried its ign. switch, welded shut in fact(Achieva's are known for doing this), it was all replaced and hasnt shown any troubles since, but I was wondering if it could have had any long lasting effects on the pump/the circuit overall/relay etc.

Also since before I bought it has always been a "lazy starter" it just doesnt always fire right up like it should on the first shot, sometimes it would start up strong/normally though, I could never figure it out after throwing plugs, and fuel system cleaner etc at it I gave up since it did always start, was hoping it was the fuel pump all along- previous owner sorta neglected the car and I have done alot of work "refreshing" things.

Thanks for any help.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by 95OldsHO

I have the manual(several) and they give the correct location for the relay's(there are 4 grouped together)but the layout they show is differant, mine are all 4 in a row, whereas in the manual they show one off to the side and another is stacked on top of one so it doesnt help me much there.

The "fuse box" is inside the car, and it has the fuses labeled, thankfully, but it is separate from these relay's, which are mounted above the pass. side strut in the engine bay.

Didnt have a chance to test for power yet at specific points in the system, hoping to get to that this afternoon.

I wanted to add two things that could be related, in the past before I owned it the car fried its ign. switch, welded shut in fact(Achieva's are known for doing this), it was all replaced and hasnt shown any troubles since, but I was wondering if it could have had any long lasting effects on the pump/the circuit overall/relay etc.

Also since before I bought it has always been a "lazy starter" it just doesnt always fire right up like it should on the first shot, sometimes it would start up strong/normally though, I could never figure it out after throwing plugs, and fuel system cleaner etc at it I gave up since it did always start, was hoping it was the fuel pump all along- previous owner sorta neglected the car and I have done alot of work "refreshing" things.

Thanks for any help.

This is the only data I have as to location of fuel pump relay:

UNDER HOOD, PASSENGER SIDE, REAR ENGINE AREA, UPPER FIREWALL CORNER, MOUNTED IN RELAY BLOCK

About all you can do is take an educated guess as to which of the 4 relays it is. Try taking the ignition switch to the fuel pump prime position - run not start and listen or feel for a relay energizing. It should click. Of course you may need two people to do this. Do it a few times until you located the right relay. Also, the quad four has a combination fuel pump/oil pressure switch in conjunction with the relay that could cause intermittent fuel pump operation.

[95OldsHO]

I took my charged battery out to the car today, checked it before I went at 12.49v, when I put it in the car though it wouldnt crank over, lights and chimes worked but no starter. I got my other car out and hooked up the cables to jump start the Achieva, I gave it a few shots and it would turn over but not start, checking the fuel pressure I see it has moved to about 8 psi, I get back in the car and try to prime the system a few more times to see if it brings up the pressure but it stays at about 8-10 psi.

I check the fuel level again and it is very low, maybe 1/8 of a tank now, I wanted to see if I was getting an oil pressure reading with the new sensor so I hooked up the jumper cables again and after letting it charge for a few minutes it is acting like it wants to start, a few more tries and with some extra cranking time it finally fires up, I jump out and put my hand over the exhaust and can tell its missing/running off, idleing at very low rpm, I run up to the engine bay and see the fuel pressure showing at 20 psi, then it rises, engine starts running better, fuel pressure rises up to 38-40 psi and is holding, I rev the motor lightly a couple times and pressure is holding still, idle is smooth, engine revs smoothly. I checked the oil pressure at idle and it showed 40 psi, slowly dropping as things warmed up.

Going to run a few more tests, Im waiting for my helper to get home so I can test for power and I need to get a new belt and more gas, my friends 2.4 shredded its belt one time when he came to visit so I took the one off my non-running 2.3 so he could get home that night.

Im not sure the fuel pump was the problem, or if it is something intermittent still going on, will update here if I learn more, any suggestions are appreciated.

[95OldsHO]

Im getting pressure prior to startup according to my gauge, 41 psi which is what the manual gives for spec., I let the car sit for awhile and then came back out and primed the system again and the gauge moved from 38 to the 41 psi.

I went and got more gas and got a belt, jump started the car again and took it for a short drive, everything seemed fine, when I got back home the car started right up on its own. Keeping my fingers crossed for now, Im thinking if the "lazy start" symptom that the car had for so long goes away also then this was probably the fix.

Thanks for all the help, any other suggestions welcomed.

[blabhern]

One thing to remember, your relay contacts may be dirty causing intermittent failures. You may want to figure out which relay it is and replace it just in case. Other possibility is bad wiring but we won't go there. Good luck hope it keeps running

[95OldsHO]

If it acts up again I will most likely try the relay first thing, while trying to figure out which relay it was I did notice that the connector had just barely slipped away from the relay, in fact all 4 had done that, the susp. on the car isnt stock and it rides pretty stiff, after snugging in the connector tight I didnt notice any change and at that point I was already getting the pump to prime the system.

Waiting on a new battery now, I think the old one sat at a "dead state" for too long while I was saving for/doing the pump and is bad now, it wont hold a charge, Im getting good voltage off the alt. though, hopefully will have new battery next week.