NISMO is coming to the US.

[CA31_JR]

Just watch those Nismo parts prices... Here in Oz Nismo radiator caps and Nismo branded keys sell for extraordinary prcies....

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by Holyterror
I want one. I really want one. I want that friggin' van. I'd paint it a more subtle color and race... well, everybody. Just to see the look on people's faces. How much would one of those run for? I'm sure it would be impossible to get one in the states. A while back, I jokingly suggested mid-mounting a 426 Hemi in a Dodge Caravan. I didn't think anyone would actually try it. These guys at Renault are sadistic. I'm scared.

:hehehe: Haha! Hilarious reaction. Too bad they only made one. I believe it's in a museum at the moment. I think this minivan sparked the idea for the Renault Cliosport, which is like a smaller version being that it's a hatchback that has moved the engine from the front to the middle. But unlike the special Espace, you can actually buy these.

[Holyterror]

I know all about Nismo parts being expensive. I looked into some imported merch a while back and it was insanely expensive. $90 for a hat? I'm still trying to figure out whose dollar that was. Hopefully, it won't be all that expensive here in the States. No telling though.

I just told somebody about the Espace today. He thought it was funny. How fast is the Cliosport? I don't see many Renaults around here, you know.

[Morpheus XIII]

You and me both. If you wanted to purchase a Cliosport (or nearly all new Renaults for that matter), you'd need to do some sort of special import.

As you can see from the side ducting, the limited Cliosport is mid-engined:



Compared to the standard Clio body, the Cliosport is accoutred with heavily flared fenders, as well as revised ground effects.



I don't know much about this car, but it may be equipped with either or both a turbo 4-cylinder, or a V-6, but you can look that up yourself. You can also drive this car in GT2. I believe the specifications there are adequate. All in all, this hatchback is NO slouch.

[Holyterror]

Looks like somebody left a Renault R5 (LeCar) and a Nissan Micra alone and...

Maybe Renault will (through Nissan) give us a small mid-engined car some day. Notice Nissan is the only Japanese manufacturer who hasn't. The Mid-4 never made it past prototype, although a lot of its technology did. Strangely enough, the MKI MR2's main competition was the Honda CRX and Nissan Pulsar (my car), both Front/Front. The MKII competed with... the Celica and Supra. Not good, Toyota. And now the MKIII is competing with the Mazda Miata. Imagine if Nissan built a mid-engined roadster on the XVL platform with a VG35DE. Not a lot of re-tooling required to build it and performance should be flat-out awesome! I'm gonna go into CarTest and build one off of the 350Z's stats. Hmmm... I'll let you know how it goes.

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by Holyterror
Maybe Renault will (through Nissan) give us a small mid-engined car some day. Notice Nissan is the only Japanese manufacturer who hasn't. The Mid-4 never made it past prototype, although a lot of its technology did. Strangely enough, the MKI MR2's main competition was the Honda CRX and Nissan Pulsar (my car), both Front/Front. The MKII competed with... the Celica and Supra. Not good, Toyota. And now the MKIII is competing with the Mazda Miata. Imagine if Nissan built a mid-engined roadster on the XVL platform with a VG35DE. Not a lot of re-tooling required to build it and performance should be flat-out awesome! I'm gonna go into CarTest and build one off of the 350Z's stats. Hmmm... I'll let you know how it goes.

I think the closest thing to a mid-engined Nissan the world has seen are the measly handful of Tommy Kaira cars (not the Skylines). But you're right, Nissan could give the ever popular Miata some overdue competition. But I have a feeling the heads at "Nissault" think that they've got enough sports oriented products on the way, and feel that they don't need to risk loss of sales on anything they're not sure of. But the VQ35DE?! Wow that's a real powerhouse for proposed Miata/MR2-S competition. That could even touch NSX territory (if it weren't for the Honda's expensive aluminum skin). But hell, I'll gladly accept the addition, and I know you will too.

That's funny, I always felt the S13 240SX was the CRX's main competitor (of course the RWD/FWD variation makes a difference); but then again, the S13 never went as far back as the mkI MR2 or the CRX. Good insight. And wasn't the mkII MR2 head to head with the mkI Miata? Both were "fun"-derived impractical cars. Once again, I'm just thinking out loud. I have no solid backing for any of this, just general logic.

I still feel Nissan should do something totally unexpected. Bring the Silvia here to the US. That would kick some serious ass. I would be the first one in line to get one. As wel as in line at the sperm bank to drop off about 10 lbs worth of baby batter.

[Holyterror]

I would love to see the Silvia make it to our shores, but I doubt it'll ever happen. Too bad; that's a lotta performance for a little cash.

The 240 was a little bigger, and initially had the image of more performance than the CRX/Pulsar/MR2. Of course, the long-stroke KA24 didn't put out in stock form (thank God for turbochargers). The MkII MR2 still had a slight performance edge on the Miata, and in turbo trim completely obliterated it. I wouldn't mind having a MkII Turbo; it pulls harder off the line than a 300ZXTT, and is tons of fun to drive.

Maybe somebody like Steve Millen or some other crazy person should take a 350Z or G35 and move the engine back about 6 feet. That'd be interesting...

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by Holyterror
Maybe somebody like Steve Millen or some other crazy person should take a 350Z or G35 and move the engine back about 6 feet. That'd be interesting...

It's funny you say that, since Nissan has been boasting about their new G35 and 350Z having a "Front-Midship" design (FM), so technically by weight distribution, they are already somewhat mid-engined. Of course to genuine enthusiasts, this can be labled simply as a selling point, and cannot be taken seriously.

I suppose we can conclude to say that the R390GT1 is the closest thing to an NSX that Nissan has made. But that's not really a just comparison.

[Holyterror]

The front-midship placement just puts the engine's center of gravity behind the front wheels. Nissan is not the first to do this, although I believe they are the first the tout it as something special. So it's not any sort of triumph by their engineers, but the marketing department had a good idea. The original selling point with FM was that it would give the car a perfect 50:50 weight balance. However, in execution, the 350Z's weight is distrubuted more like 52:48. Nissan says this was intentional, in order to "preload the front wheels." Yeah, whatever.

A brand new NSX with all the trimmings costs less than 1/10 of the price of an R390, so I guess they aren't quite on equal terms. I would loooove to have one, though (the R390 that is).

The car I really want to see in production is the Mid-4. The VG35 would definitely be one of the biggest mid-mounted engines ever, but the later Mid-4 prototypes managed a bit more power. The 1987 Mid-4 carried a version of the VG30DETT that put out 330 horses, 30 more than the 300ZXTT 3 years later. I hear they were planning on building one with a V8, which would make it a direct competitor for the '04 NSX.

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by Holyterror
The front-midship placement just puts the engine's center of gravity behind the front wheels. Nissan is not the first to do this, although I believe they are the first the tout it as something special. So it's not any sort of triumph by their engineers, but the marketing department had a good idea.

Nice bit of input, but I don't know who ever stated that the FM layout is any type of engineering triumph. However, it may be true that Nissan is the first to mass market the layout. There are only a few cars from the past which used this drivetrain, and the Mercedes Vision SLR concept car was one of them.

Originally posted by Holyterror
The original selling point with FM was that it would give the car a perfect 50:50 weight balance. However, in execution, the 350Z's weight is distrubuted more like 52:48. Nissan says this was intentional, in order to "preload the front wheels." Yeah, whatever.

LOL! The new Nissan does have a way with the media and publicity doesn't it.

But front wheel load IS important--when entering a turn. Most of the weight must have already been shifted to the front before entry since the front/outside tire is where the majority of the pressure will hit throughout the turn. Most inexperienced drivers are better off with the front wheels slightly preloaded, so that at least they can maintain relatively good traction throughout the curve, rather than allowing a "rotate-on-a-center-pole" feel that mid-engined cars project. This is somewhat of a passive traction feature. Of course, a vehicle with perfect 50/50 balance will cut through the turn quicker, but hell, not everyone is a certified racecar driver.

Originally posted by Holyterror
A brand new NSX with all the trimmings costs less than 1/10 of the price of an R390, so I guess they aren't quite on equal terms. I would loooove to have one, though (the R390 that is).

It's too bad Honda never made an LMP. I'd like to see how they would stand up to all the twin-turbo V8s on the field. Maybe they would forego the usual naturally aspirated layouts, and use their CART engine.

[Holyterror]

Haven't you heard all the Civic ricers (I mean, racers... not)? All Honda's use the CART motor. At least, that's what they told me. :smoker2:

In my opinion, inexperienced drivers should not be allowed to buy sports cars, but in my universe SUVs are outlawed as well. Okay, you've made a case for pre-loading the front wheels I suppose. It should be possible to counteract this by tweaking spring rates and aftermarket sway bars. But I don't think that any front engine car is going to quite feel like a mid no matter what you do. The feeling of rotating around a point is good as long as that point is about the same as your center of gravity. I saw some drawings of the 350Z that made it look like the car's CG was right where the driver's hip should be. I guess we'll just have to see how it really performs.

[Morpheus XIII]

Originally posted by Holyterror
Haven't you heard all the Civic ricers (I mean, racers... not)? All Honda's use the CART motor. At least, that's what they told me. :smoker2:

Aha! THAT'S why there are so many damned Hondas with "Powered by Honda" decals on them! That means they must have the same CART engines under the hood! After all, CART champ cars pioneered that godforsaken logo, which every "Civic ricer" feels that they deserve. And I'm not even being prejudiced against H-cars; it looks pretty ridiculous when I see the meaningful and deep GT-R placards on the flanks of a 200SX (the B15 SE-R "stacked letter" logo is a much more fitting and nicer looking badge for the 200).

Originally posted by Holyterror
But I don't think that any front engine car is going to quite feel like a mid no matter what you do. The feeling of rotating around a point is good as long as that point is about the same as your center of gravity.

I think you've hit the nail of the subject matter on the head with those lines. It's all about the feel.

[Holyterror]

CART champ cars pioneered that godforsaken logo, which every "Civic ricer" feels that they deserve. And I'm not even being prejudiced against H-cars; it looks pretty ridiculous when I see the meaningful and deep GT-R placards on the flanks of a 200SX

Yeah, I agree. It pisses me off to no end to see a GT-R badge on anything but a GT-R. Around here, people even rice out their Mustangs with "racing" logos, euro lights (and tiny, tiny openings where you can actually see them), and some body kits that don't exactly fit. Sooner or later, it was bound to happen. If I ever see the Mustang GT-R again, I'll personally rip the badge off and throw it in the river. I imagine putting a GT-R badge on some other car in Japan would get you lynched - as it should be. At least the Honda guys aren't disgracing any real legendary series of cars (since Honda has never made a legendary car... :smoker2: ).

I heard that the Skyline design team was kind of upset about the Sentra SE-R, and wouldn't let them call it V-Spec, hence the Spec-V. The French have Nissan messing with their own traditions, not good.

[smartboy88]