NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS

[JustSayGo]

If you can see marks from where the screws were originally tightened, start there. Do you have a DVOM? What are the instructions for setting your TPS? TPS adjustment can't be guessed at or adjusted by ear. Neither can ignition timing.

THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR:ADJUSTMENTS

Throttle stop screw is factory preset, do not remove or adjust.

1.Disconnect battery ground cable, then tps coupler.
2.Loosen TPS screws.
3.Unsert .025inch thickness gauge between throttle stop screw and throttle lever.
4.Connect ohmmeter between C and D terminals of TPS connector.A- -D
B- -C
5.Turn TPS clockwise fully, then counter clockwise gradually to find position where ohmmeter reading changes from zero to infinite.Tighten TPS at that position.
6.Ensure there is no continuity between terminal C and D when .035inch thickness guage is inserted between stop screw and throttle lever.
7.Ensure there is continuity between terminal C and D when .012inch thickness guage is inserted between stop screw and throttle lever.
8.If checks in step 6 and 7 are not as specified, installation angle of TPS is not adjusted properly.Repeat complete procedure.
9.Connect coupler to TPS and battery ground cable.

[Mohave]

While I don't necessarily agree with the logic, I believe that temperature range is enough to get the computer out of the open loop mode. I suspect, however, that it will cost you a bit of gas mileage.

[DOCTORBILL]

Well folks - Bad news...

I got everything back together.

Started it up.

Ran....sounded fine,but kept dying off like before.
Vacuum at MAP was about 20 and if I didn't pump the gas, vacuum fell off and it died.

Was trying to figure this out when - Bang!

Something happened inside - now it makes a hideous grinding awful noise.
Killed it immediately! Thiught maybe something fell under the hood. Looked.
????

Started it again and Jesus - awful sounds - not like grinding, but like
marbles are in there....

I took the plugs out and when I turn it over, it makes an awful sound.

Maybe a wrist pin broke...(?) maybe that rusted rod bearing surface siezed...
or a ring broke - God knows. Something really bad happened!

I'm not spending another minuite or dime on it.....God damn!

About $500 down the toilet.....and two months hard work.

It is history! Shit.......

Anybody want it?

I give up! It has been a really bad day for me

My computer died - speakers Bios message says CPU is toast.
Maybe if I go outside, a meteor will shoot thru my head and end all this.

What is next?

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

before you scrap it look at the plate underneath that covers bottom of flywheel, could have dented it playing with oil pan. make sure its not rubbing. if thats not it oull starter off and make sure plate between it and engine is not rubbing. if none of those things are the problem it might be something inside front cover. don't give up quite yet

[DOCTORBILL]

What the Hell could possibly break after running for a total fo 2 to 3 minutes!?

Has oil and coolant.

I pulled the fan belt off and turned it over w/o plugs. makes a bad tap-tap sound.

not water pump.

I'll check that plate underneath.

Could something in the head rebuild have broken?

I cannot imagine what would do this!

Ever heard of such a thing?

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

did you pull the starter off?

[Crvett69]

one last thing, if you put to long of a bolt in the water pump pulley it can hit housing behind it. also did you tighten cam gear dpwn well, shop may not have, that will make a nasty noise too

[DOCTORBILL]

I did not take the starter off.

The Cam Gear - you mean the Toothed pulley the timing belt runs on?

I heard a whang - then the noise started.

It makes the tapping sound when I run w/o plugs or the fan belt.

Was too dark then and I was so pissed and down, I came in the house.

Then my computer died. Bad day hereabouts....

Am being watchfull that my butt doesn't fall off.

It is difficult not to be superstitious, sometimes.

I will delve into this tomorrow afternoon after I get home from my Class which ends at 12:30.

If something broke - Piston rods or bearings, I will part this machine out.
Head should be good - just rebuilt.

5 speed trans - works nicely.

Someone could drop a JDM engine in this and have a nice car.

I already have about $500 into this job and won't put any more good money
after bad....

What possibilities exist for this noise.....? You have pistons, rings, connecting
rods & bearings... Thats about it! I had torqued the rod bearing caps as per
the Chilton ft-lbs. Had put oil on them before assembly. It ran nicely for a
while! Just that damned running and dying as last fall. Probably a bad fuel
pump....

If the rings dug into the cylinders...(?) Is that even possible?

How could a wrist pin break? Or a rod bearing go bad so fast?

The head - can something in the Head break?

This is weird....$#&$*( &^#^*( )&#^$* !!!!

DoctorBill

PS - 9:05 PM - hope has peeked out of the clouds - I was about to tear into
my computer Mother Board but I clicked it on just to hear the BIOS message
again and now the damned thing works!
It had said the CPU was bad....I give up trying to understand the Universe -
too damned obtuse for my comprehension! I wonder if three Beers will make
it look better...?

[Crvett69]

if they bled the lifters down at the shop they will tap for about 10-30 minutes till the fill up again. yes the cam gear is the top one the toothed belt runs on

[nonewcars]

Sounds like something in the head broke. Can't believe it would be the rings since you were able to freely turn the motor when you put the new rings in. Also, make sure the timing is correct. I know you said it ran, but the timing belt can slip if you don't have it adjusted correctly. It can make a bad noise when the timing is off. I would not throw in the towel yet. At a minimum, I would pull the head back off if you can't resolve the problem to see if its the rings or the head. If its the head, the machine shop should have to fix it correctly. I took my head to a machine shop and when they re-assembled it, they left out the cam shaft seal and the motor leaked oil like a cow pissing on a flat rock as you would say. Costs me more money to get that fixed. So machine shops can make mistakes.

[JustSayGo]

My guess would be Could something in the head rebuild have broken?

[DOCTORBILL]

Random thoughts of a tired, disillusioned and pissed off and bitter old man..........

I am back on my computer......was writing previously on my wife's.

It was the Lithium Battery that keeps the Bios alive... I had one in my box of stuff....Resurection!

You see! I save everything! I am surounded by piles of my "STUFF."

My house is FULL of all the crap I can't seem to throw away - now it saved my arse! Ha!

When I die, they should dig a really big hole with a back-hoe and dump all my saved crap
in the hole with my body.....I'll take it with me. Might be useful in Hell!

I got depressed when the car started doing the funny stuff...I'm all better now!

I will look at the flange over the flywheel, but it went back on so nicely that I
doubt that it is the problem.

I looked in the spark plug holes and saw nothing - at least #3 was clean.
I'll go out now that it is quite dark - can see better.

Tried to turn the main pully but it is hard to move it with the timing belt on.
The pulley was difficult to turn when I aligned the head to the mark.
Could a Valve Spring break?

I suspect it is the Head....don't know why...intuition...(?)

About the lifters - intriguing - maybe.....how bad would it sound?
Wouldn't that have started immediately, though.

It ran nicely from the start except for the dying off w/o pumping the pedal.

After doing this job, an engine seems so straightforward that only a couple
of things can go bad. Yes?...say yes......please.....

We will see.....I really, really, really don't want to take the oil pan off again.

Working underneath the car is the part that is quite aggravating!
Can't move my arms around or get a good purchase on anything....

Question - if the engine will run (it does), wouldn't it destroy itself if I let it run?
In other words, will I really booger up something if I run it a few minutes to see if the lifters are
making this noise?

If it were anything having to do with the piston rods, the engine would jam and stop - no?

Just trying to logic this out....

More tomorrow - if it doesn't rain......

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

if you were on this side of the mountains i would say drag it over and use the hoist and before you shoot it we could drop a jdm engine i

[Mohave]

There are a lot of things that can go knock knock knock and there are things that go click click click. The bang that preceeded the knocking or clicking is what worries me. Most of the really bad things don't start with a bang. Bearings usually just start suddenly knocking.

Where is the noise coming from? Deep down or high up? The idle problem is probably a vaccum leak since you have had a lot of hoses off.

Differential diagnosis:
Rod bearings. Should not have been a bang.
Main bearings. Should not have been a bang.
Valve spring
Valve spring retainer
Valve failure
Rocker arm failure. May not have one
Liftere failure. Probably no bang, but possible.
Camshaft retaining bolt
Something broke and it touching something that moves.

The bang suggests a break of some kind. The knocking suggests a part that is not rotating, but changes direction. I would pull the valve cover and look around for something that is not right, but consider that some things may look normal until measured or tested.

I would not run the engine. Rod and main bearings will often allow the engine to run, but it will be a loud and deep knocking. You really know it when you hear it because it causes the banging to come through the block. Head problems tend to be more of a clacking sound. Any knocking or clacking is bad and should not be allowed to continue without careful inspection or post mortem. Ticking is not so bad, but I would not run an engine after a bang of any kind unless I am looking for the noise and only start it for a second or two. Knowing the difference between knocking, clacking, and ticking only comes from experience.

You did put oil into the engine, didn't you? Stupid question, but I have seen that a lot after rebuilds.

I suspect it may not be as bad as you first fear.

[DOCTORBILL]

I had a '89 Jeep cherokee that had knocking lifters - really loud!
You would think someone was banging on the engine with a ball-peen hammer!

Would come and go. I used "Detergent" additive and it would go away in
summer. Was really bad in winter. Probably the oil hole plugged or small.

Didn't seem to hurt the Jeep....finally sold it - Gas Guzzler & Nickel and Dimer.

I understand these buggers do the same lifter stuff at times.

Someone suggested lifter noise. If it is really loud and only one of them....

I hate to tear the Head Off again (have to buy the three Gaskets again) and
it is a noisy new lifter...!

Decisions, decisions...run it or tear it apart. Either one could be wrong.

How can I record the sound and place it on this forum? I have a digital sound
recorder.

DoctorBill

PS - I'm going to call the Head Repair Shop that rebuilt the Head and ask about this....