WIP: 2CV “Rock and Roll-Bar”

[quadzero]

unlike the diapers, this is really a work of art. the weathering and chipping paint is fantastic. everything is coming together so beautifully. maybe i missed something earlier but how come you had to cast your own wheels? this is something i would love to try soon but i dont know too much about it. anywho, keep up the great work. this will be a real masterpiece when its done. so when will you explain to us about making our own photo-etched pieces??

[MPWR]

Looking great, as always. The chassis is spectacular. And the filler cap is a terrific detail also- being right in front at the top of the engine, it'll really stand out. Nicely done with the hole puncher, but why not with the lathe? And I've never heard of masking with salt, but it looks the part.

Try putting a wash on the wheels- it'll help the lug nuts and valve stems stand out, and may emphasise the paint chips too.

After it's all done, I'd consider giving it a dusting with dirt coloured powdered pastel chalk- say the wheels, suspension, underside, and maybe the interior floorboards, too.

[Gridgirl]

Wow, Stevenski! This is quite a build you have going. I'm particularly impressed that you can manage to find a way to be self-deprecating while showing us these phenomenal steps, most of which you've come up with on your own. It shows true talent for both modeling and self-deprecation.

I think all the scratch built engine detail is really cool. When I finally get around to building my 2CV you won't mind if I copy some of them will you?

You never did tell us, did Alex manage to get her cast off by Christmas?

[bigfrit]

Amazingly, stunningly and utterly insane!!!

I m as always, bowing in silence.


Oli

[klutz_100]

Thanks for the great comments!
Coming from you guys, that’s really encouraging

arknok784 You're gonna have a working engine by the time you done with this

Thanks! I’m currently working on a formula for 1/24 scale unleaded fuel

quadzero..but how come you had to cast your own wheels? this is something i would love to try soon but i dont know too much about it. …. so when will you explain to us about making our own photo-etched pieces??

I had to cast a 5th wheel to hang on the rollbar frame (it’s somewhere earlier in the thread if you can find it). As for casting, go for it! It’s much easier than I ever hoped although I’m sure I just got lucky that it went so well first time round.

Hmm..P/E parts…
I was honestly looking at and drooling over an etching set in a catalogue yesterday LOL!! Seriously though, I won’t be going down that road anytime soon! I’ve got a sneaking suspicion, however, that DIY decals are just around the corner

gridgirl.. I'm particularly impressed that you can manage to find a way to be self-deprecating….you won't mind if I copy some of them will you?... did Alex manage to get her cast off by Christmas?

I’m also currently working on a self-deprecation “How To”
I think my self-flogging is fully justified, though - see my reply below to MPWR…

Let’s trade! - you can have my 2CV ideas if I can copy your Fiat 500 work

Alex got the cast of for Christmas and is now just in a leg brace – thanks for asking. She is attending physiotherapy 4 times a week though
BTW Guess what she got for Christmas? A Tamiya Beetle just like yours! She wants to modify it into a Herbie though!!!! Lord! Help me! LOL

MPWR why not with the lathe?

Good question!!!! Never thought of that

MPWR.. I've never heard of masking with salt, but it looks the part.

I found the idea on an armor and aviation forum in their “How To” section while I was researching weathering techniques. I think it’s a cool method and gives nice results but I wasted a TON (or should that be gallon?) of Alclad2 by spraying the whole piece. In future, I would first plan better where I want the chipping effects to be and just spray those selected areas (or use a cheaper metaliser)

MPWR Try putting a wash on the wheels- it'll help the lug nuts and valve stems stand out, and may emphasise the paint chips too.

whimper, whimper … I did…whimper…I’ll do it again, Obi

MPWRAfter it's all done, I'd consider giving it a dusting with dirt coloured powdered pastel chalk- say the wheels, suspension, underside, and maybe the interior floorboards, too.

That’s the plan say hello to the Stevenski Weathering Kit….



Thanks for the good idea of doing the floor inside too - I wouldn’t have thought of that!

Sorry for all the smileys in here just enjoying myself today

[2cv]

Originally Posted by klutz_100

(...)

Next the lights.

AF member 2CV who has been really helpful with resource info and answering my dumb questions (...)

There are no dumb questions, Only dumb answers

...mentioned that the lights are “wrong”.

If you would use the original light support + headlights, you would have to cut along the black lines and glue the lights back on the frame like this:

http://lelijkeeend.multiply.com/photos/photo/14/7.jpg

I’m not sure what he meant but I decided that the light support bar/thing is a very characteristic element of the 2CV engine bay and is very visible when the hood is off.

The kit part looks like this:



The “blob” in the middle is a distributor/coil that has leads the go off to the spark plugs. It looks like this in the original:




I started off by trying to make the part out of various pieces of different styrene rods cut, shaped and glued together. This is what I came up with:

The coil sits on top of the support bar. If you would do it 100% perfect, you should cut off the bottom part along the black line:

http://lelijkeeend.multiply.com/photos/photo/14/9.jpg

I want to compliment you on your detail ! It is all really awesome ! I don't think I am able to get even close to your skills ! Even if I would build a kit according to the manual without replacing the parts from the box with scratchbuilt parts, it would still be an ugly blob of plastic !

Originally Posted by MPWR

Nice job Stevenski! Beautiful work. Glad to hear Alex is doing well, and glad to see you updating!

Ah, so that's where the distributer is on the 2CV- was wondering about that.

There is no distributor on a 2cv. Both sparkplugs fire at the same time. Even when it isn't needed ! If there is no distributor, the distributor can't malfunction or give problems

The horizontal cylander in the center of the frame is the starter motor, with the solenoid molded to it. The more vertical cylander in front of it as best as I can tell is an oil reservoir- this is where the oil fill seems to be.

It is the oil filler tube. It is not used to store oil. It's just a bit big because there is a special valve in it. This way, air (not oil) gets pressed out when both cylinders are moving towards eachother. When the cylinders are moving away from eachother, the valve closes so air doesn't get in. Due to this, there is a vacuum between the cylinders and it's impossible for oil to leak out trough bearings etc.

Originally Posted by blubaja

Is that a horizontally opposed engine? Keep upthe awsome progress!

A 2 cylinder boxer engine. 602 cc's (36.73629 cubic inches), 29 horsepowers at 5600RPM. 5600RPM is also the maximum RPM's this engine can take according to Citroën, but I've been driving 70km/h (43.49598mph) in second gear. That means the engine made 7000RPM. Somehow, the engine survived without damage (knock on wood).

Originally Posted by proosen

Terrific job!
I heard that Citroën tried out a BMW motorcycle engine when developing this car. They thought it was to strong so they made their own boxer instead.
Think of a 900-1000cc BMW engine, would have made wonders in the aspect of speed and acceleration!

Anyway, keep up the hard and good work!
Niclas

I think if you do that, the wheels will not rotate. Instead, the engine will rotate backwards, pulling the chassis forward and wrapping it around the engine block !

Yet, on the other hand, people have placed a 4 cylinder boxer engine in a 2cv-like car. But I presume they reinforced the chassis a bit ...

Originally Posted by klutz_100

OMG I am can’t believe what I am about to post – I am so happy!!

Don’t get your hopes up too much though, this definitely falls into the category of “One HUGE step for Klutz but two steps backwards for the modelling world”


A few months ago I picked up a Unimat1 lathe for about 50$. It’s worth noting here that I have never seen a lathe in my life before never mind used one!





Yesterday for the first time ever , I set it up and tried it out on some pieces of aluminium and styrene rod.

This is what I can’t believe – after 30 minutes playing with it, I have made myself 3 (well 2, really ) very respectable attempts at the oil filter I wanted to add to the engine!!!

Here they are – what do you think?








I think that with some practice, the Unimat can turn out to be a useful although limited tool. It definitely works fine with styrene (and, I suspect, resin). I could tell though that aluminium was approaching its limits. I wouldn’t pay full price for one of these, but a good 2nd mand one with some extra attachments is probably a useful acquisition.

May I borrow it ?

Since I’m on a roll, I’m going to try and do the dipstick tonight

blubaja Yes, this is 2 cylined flat engine. IIRC, the name "2CV" orginated from the orginal power of the engine - 2HP (cheveaux or CV in French).

In France, you have to pay the taxes for your car according to its power. Yet, that's a great reason to build an expansive, deluxe car with very little power. So they make some kind of calculating model wich includes not only power, but also the weight of the car. And according to that calculation model the first 2cv's had just 2 horsepowers instead of 9. Later on, the calculated numer of horsepowers went up due to a more powerful engine and a slightly heavier car. Because of that, my 2cv with 29 horsepowers has officialy 3 horsepowers according to french laws.

Originally Posted by mickbench

Klutz,

Cool to see you working on this. If I remember what I watched once on Discovery the 2CV was a joint venture between the declining Citroën and their new owners Michelin. I think the idea was to create an affordable 2 cylinder car that you could rag all day long and not worry about fuel economy or bumps in the road. Amazingly I think the car was produced right into the 90’s..!!

The end of 1991. I do not know the exact date.

CORRECTION: The last 2cv was built on july 27th 1990 at 16:00hours. Stupid me !

I mean we all remember the 2CV in the Bond Movie for your eye’s only..

They used more than one. If you watch the movie closely, you'll see that a crushed headlight in the one schene, is like new in the other. Also, they took out the original engine and squeezed in a 1220cc (not 100% sure) 4 cylinder boxer engine of a GSA (I'm sure of that though!) They had to cut out a part of the inside of the front mudguards to make the engine fit.

The car was made even more famous as it went down a flight of steps without any special tricks, pull ropes or nothing really and still drove away unharmed (I read that somewhere, or was it in a movie trivia quiz – anyhow I know it was superb in that movie for stunts).

The only reason I never did that was because my g/f started to yell when I suggested it.

For a car designed pre war, to appeal to the masses and farmers alike, you have to admit, the marmite car (you either love it or hate it) has done well..

It still does well ! Unfortunattely, some morons at Citroën decided to stop the production of this car, wich is offcourse the best car in th whole wide world !

Originally Posted by klutz_100

Well, my 2CV has be "dipsticked" - whatever that means...



I posted a blow-by-blow account as a "How to" so if you are interested in how I did it, you can find it there.

I’m sure that you guys can think of many different and better ways to do this but I hope that this will maybe give the general idea.

Now, what else can I come up with to delay painting.....?

Next post in about 2 years!

I'm almost amazed the engine doesn't really run on petrol !

Originally Posted by klutz_100

UPDATE 27.12.2005

Hope everyone had/is having a great Christmas!

I’ve been using the three days off work, to sneak into my modelling room at silly hours of the night and start getting Jean Paul ready for the road.

I hope you like what I have done. My Mum, who is staying with us for Christmas, thinks it’s great but she is the lady that thought my dirty diapers were works of art so she’s not really objective and I’m more interested in your opinion.


First of all, I finished off a final detail from my “working dipstick" episode - the filler cap.

The kit part is a plastic blob on top of the filler tube and since it’s so close to other parts that I have detailed quite carefully, I wanted to keep up appearances (also, reference photos show this to be quite an interesting part in its own right).

I cut of the kit part and then made a disc and ring out of styrene sheet using my belt hole puncher. I glued together to get a 3-dimensional cap and then “painted” it with a sharpie pen. (in the photo it is just stuck to a piece rod for handling)




Reference photos show a closing mechanism made out of spring wire – a bit like the lids on jars that your Grandma used to make jam in! I recreated this using thin wire filaments and bending them to shape.



I think the final result is quite a good representation but not very cleanly built – maybe I’ll do it again later.




To get on the road JP needs some wheels!!

I want this whole build to look a bit “used” but not "junked" so to recreate a chipped paint effect I decided to use the salt masking technique (don’t ask me why i decided to do it that way!! )

First I painted the primed rims with Alclad2 steel, then wet the odd place or two and sprinkled with large-grain sea salt
(my wife was finally convinced that I have fully flipped my lid when I smuggled a pot of SALT!!!! into my modelling room – I don’t thing anything will surprise her now LOL)



This was then sprayed with my colour (dupicolor auto acrylic) and let dry. You can see the salt still under the paint.



After the paint dried I brushed off the salt and the steel paint showed through. The wheels were then detailed, filler valves added, washed and weathered. Here’s the final result:



Also, I painted the resin tires I cast. I am really pleased with how they came out (unfortunately, I have no idea how I did it LOL). The resin tire is on the left and the kit tire is on the right. I painted the resin with a custom mix of X18 and XF24 (dark grey) and it’s really hard to tell them apart.





I’ve also started on the dreaded painting I have begun with the chassis and will work my way up from there.

Again I used the salt masking technique for paint chips.

The whole frame was primed and then pained with Alclad2 Steel and then hit with the same mix that I used on the tyres.

I did this to a) get scale colour effect and b) to provide a better contrast to the floor pan which will be a darker black.

The frame was then dry brushed (badly) and I also scrapped away some more of the black paint to reveal the steel colour underneath.

Also I recreated rusted patches in a couple of places (before priming) using CA glue and baking powder.





The rusted areas were lightly brushed with Pactra rust color and some MIG rust pigment.
The bits that the wheels are attached to (sorry, don’t know the name) were painted in A2 steel and then liberally washed with MPWRs secret wash recipies

I think that the muffler (?) came out really well. Baking powder rust, A2 steel, pactra rust, oil wash and MIG pigment while it was still wet.



I also attached the suspension dampers I made out of aluminium, steel and brass tube ages ago.

These should really have been painted black and then weathered but I just couldn’t bring myself to cover it with paint (sorry 2CV for lack of accuracy ). I think it looks cool and that’s what counts the most













I’ve also started trying to “weather up” some other bits ‘n pieces. This a side by side of weathered and un-weathered bit of French engineering




Thanks for looking and I hope you are enjoying this.

Please share with me all the weathering experiences you can!!

Have a great time on New Year's Eve

Can you build a set of suspension dampers in scale 1:1 for me ?

And for detail: you should make the chassis rusty on the inside.

But seriously: every part of the 2cv that isn't made out of aluminium or is not painted, rusts. Achtually ... Even painted parts rust under the paint ! Believe me, you can hear a 2cv rusting away !

Originally Posted by klutz_100

Well, my 2CV has be "dipsticked" - whatever that means...



I posted a blow-by-blow account as a "How to" so if you are interested in how I did it, you can find it there.

I’m sure that you guys can think of many different and better ways to do this but I hope that this will maybe give the general idea.

Now, what else can I come up with to delay painting.....?

Next post in about 2 years!

I don't want to spoil the fun, but the dipstick of a 2cv is made out a flat piece of stel, not round ... But the tube where you stick the dipstick in is round !

Originally Posted by klutz_100

(...) Sorry for all the smileys in here just enjoying myself today

You're not the only one who is enjoying It's really magnificent to see all those fiddely little details and how they are built etc !

EDIT: The last 2cv was built on july 27th 1990 at 16:00hours. Stupid me !

[bkvj]

heey nice project going on here. you got skills

Believe me, you can hear a 2cv rusting away !

...only thing i have to say to this;
duh, its a citroen!

[FlyingGilles]

Great work on it..... now, you ave a little thingi there with Europe Dust..... Is it different than American Dust?

[klutz_100]

UPDATE (or should I say DOWNDATE?)

Before I get to the cluster-merde, I’ll pass on the totally unimpressive good news…

More underside weathering.

Before salting and painting the underside of the floor pan with the body colour, I tested first to see how salt reacts with lacquer paints instead of acrylics. Good job I did too, because it turns the salt into rock and you can’t chip it back off leaving the underlying metal color exposed!

At first I was disappointed but then I thought “Hello! Let’s try to use that effect to make some caked-on mud”. That’s why you can see so much salt in the wheel arches.
The part is currently undergoing final stages of weathering and we’ll see how it comes out.




I have also painted the brass PE diamond plate that I am using for the interior flooring.

It was primed with Mr Metal Primer through AB and painted with Model Master Aluminium Metalizer (this colour doesn’t seem to need a sealer?)






Also got the front bench seat primed (Mr Metal Primer) and painted. Next step is upholstery.




Now for the cluster-merde with a double side order of FUBAR.

For any of you saw/recall my Boxster SE build, this is for you . I checked on French wikipedia and this is what it gave me for Moby Dick: “Moby Dick est le nom d'une baleine blanche”. Why don’t they mention anything about 2CVs?!?!? And black paint!?!?


The hood of the 2 CV looks like this:



You see that big, gaping empty space in the middle at the front?

That’s where the kit grill is supposed to be fitted - assuming you haven’t lost the part, of course. I have. It’s gone. Forever.

A styrene bolt has come down from above and zapped it, I guess (or the cleaning lady had it). Believe me, I spent 2 days looking EVERYWHERE. It’s officially lost until it turns up in 2 years time when I don’t need it anymore (while looking for this part, I found a part of my Morris Cooper that I lost a year ago and had to get a replacement from Tamiya )

The only realistic solution I could come up with was to try and recreate it out of sheet styrene and bits. This is what I came up with.






It’s not beautiful but I think it will pass muster when it is painted and glued into place.



Now for the really BIG ONE

Primed with the same Motip primer I used for just about everything else…3 light most coats form the can of Motip gloss black auto acrylic lacquer,…wet sanded back a little with 2000 and then 2500 grit…first wet coat…2nd wet coat and…..





CRAP!!!! I don’t know what happened!?!?!? I’m jinxed– I am NEVER painting another model black!

[MPWR]

Hey Stevenski-

The scratchbuilt grille looks good- paint it up and I'd say it will definately do the trick. Could always beat it up just a little to weather it. Another nice little scratch project you've done for this build.

As for the paint, it's without question a bummer. I'm not sure how I would advise you, but I'm pretty sure more paint won't fix it. Add more primer over it, or strip and re-prime/re-paint?

But then again, a thought occurs. I'm really not the type to look for blessings in disguise and the like, but- for a model your weathering fairly heavily, just how out of place would aged, cracked paint on the fenders look? I'm not sure the two pics above are enough to evaluate it, but it looks like it could be a good effect. Dust it lightly with pastel chalk dust, and call it intentional?

[Gridgirl]

I don't know what to tell you about the paint. I've been told that it's difficult to do anything to a model that will actually ruin it, but I don't find it all that difficult to do things to my models that really frustrate me.

The scratchbuilt grill looks good. I think you're back to the unwarranted self-deprecation again. I'm still waiting for the self-deprecation tutorial. It has to come from you, I don't know anybody else who has achieved your level of mastery

I'm glad that Alex had her cast off for the holidays, I hope her physiotherapy is going well, and not driving you too crazy. You'll have to tell us how her Herbie build is going!

[quadzero]

the grill is excellent and looks natural sitting there in the hood. its too bad about the paint. i was thinking the exact same thing as MPWR even before i read his post but its hard to see exactly what happened to the black. is it crazed or cracked? not really sure. but you might be able to make lemonade out of that lemon paint thru heavy weathering as he said. wish i could offer more help here but im not familiar with this problem and what exactly happened with the paint.

[gionc]

The floor is fantastic the grill better more, but
Crap! I tought the same as MPWR when I saw, with a little weathering...

But I'm pretty sure that you'll strip and repaint: stay up, your work is awesome, everyone here said that a lot of times, you made just some impossible stuff and you pull over your wizard's cylinder some new original tech and item like the fabulous seat and the pull sunspensions: this's just a little hurdle on your way!

This unexpected problem remember me the Veyron's signature "There's a lesson in every kit" I was quetly impressed by that phrase when come in the community: make treasure of that hard lesson. I know I'll see soon that duecavalli with a wonderful shine, after that you could weatherer and soil with mud that beauty

Keep up the great work Steve

[klutz_100]

Thank you Lady and Gents for the support
Seriously, it's nice to know that there's someone out there rooting for you when it hits the fan !!

Thanks also for the kind words about front grill.
Now that I've cooled down a bit, I quite like it too
I was just so pissed at the time, that I think that it was pure cussedness that made it work at all. My only problem with it is that the surround is very "flat". My memory of the kit part is that it was more "3 dimensional". Nice thought MPWR on banging it up a bit - I'll do that (carefully!).

With regards the paint, I was also thinking that maybe I could leverage the wrinkles into some kind of weathering effect but in the end I decided not to because:
a) The crazing is even worse than it looks in the pictures and
b) I kind of have a kind of "vision" in my head about this car. This is someone's beloved, handmade Jean-Paul that they have renovated and rebuilt with their own hands fairly recently (they are still washing it every other day LOL). There's no way he'd accept that bad a paint job yet

I decided to try and save it, working on the principle that if I succeed - super, if not - I can strip it and start again but at least I'll learn something.
Since 2 patients decided to wake me up last night and I couldn't get back to sleep , I sneaked down to my workshop at 4.30 this morning and had a go.

Methinks things are looking optimistic at this point!!

I did a test on just one wing (fender?).
First I fairly gently wet sanded it with 1200 grit.


Then I started smoothing out with 2000 and 2500 grits. I followed this up with macguire's scratch-X (first time using it and think it's tons better than taiya corse compaound) and then macguires cleaning wax.
Here you can see the treated and untreated parts:


And here's a close up of the treated part:


There are still some very fine marks in there but I think that actually this is a finish close to what I would call realistic and "on vision"
It's very difficult sanding carefully in some of the creases and I barely rubbed through to primer on a couple of edges but if this is the worst I do, I'll will turn that into weathering.

In out of town now for a couple of days and will try the rest of the body when I get back.

Thanks again for your support!

Gridgirl,
Thanks. Alex is doing so well with physio, that when she lost one of her crutches on Wednesday last week at school, we didn't even realise that we were "one leg short" until Friday

Les,
Citroen sounds a lot like citron which is French for lemon so, does this mean I just made some Citroenade?

Gio,
I think that "duecavalli" sounds soooo much cooler than 2CV
Makes me feel tha need to put V12 stallion power under the hood next time!!

[gionc]

Damn you discovered the way to have a "30 years old body shell with original paint in great condition for sale call..." the problem now is replicate the performance: that fuc***g paint next time could come up perfect