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Old 10-24-2011, 11:45 PM   #1
jpar1983
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'00 GLS hard starting

Hey all,
My wife's Intrigue has had a hard starting/rough idle/rough start issue for a little bit now. On a hunch this weekend I decided to clean out her throttle body. Turns out it was more full of soot than a chimney in February. Nasty black carbon buildup. Took a toothbrush and some throttle body cleaner and scrubbed it out best I could. Car runs great now, very smooth and responsive. Gas pedal use to stick, even fixed that. So I'm a hero, until we realize that her car is still starting hard. Turn the key and the engine turns over no problem, starter sounds good. Once the engine is running it purrs like a kitten. But sometimes you have to crank it for several seconds before it fires up. Any ideas?
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:39 AM   #2
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Pretty classic behavior of a bad crankshaft position sensor.

If you search the forum, most all threads regarding a bad crankshaft position sensor have a pretty similar description.

What makes it difficult though is the sensor doesnt always throw a code when it goes bad, making the check engine light come on. Several people have replaced them on a hunch and had their problem go away.

I replaced mine not too long ago, but I was getting repeated check engine lights within days of it first exhibiting symptoms.

There are other things that can cause it, but that would be where Id start since its such a common issue.
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:32 PM   #3
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleHoov View Post
If you search the forum, most all threads regarding a bad crankshaft position sensor have a pretty similar description.
Yeah I saw several like that. I'll try that first and repost with the results. I have a friend who is a mechanic, so maybe he has a scan tool I can use if I need to do the re-learn thing. Thanks!
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:35 AM   #4
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Another possibility/suggestion - a few years ago my 2000 started taking about 5 seconds to start. This showed up mostly with a still-warm engine that had been shut off for a while. Starting remained pretty good with either a cold engine, or with immediately re-starting a warm engine that had just been shut off.
The problem was the fuel pressure regulator (FPR). The FPR showed the classic symptom of having fuel in its vacuum line.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:08 PM   #5
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

That doesn't sound as likely to me, it doesn't seem to matter how warm the engine is. If I were to judge though, I would say it starts better when warm. I'll check that if the CPS doesn't fix it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:52 AM   #6
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

As he said though, a classic sign of a bad FPR is fuel in the vacuum line that runs to it, thats something thats very easy to check, and to check multiple times, especially if you keep the cosmetic engine cover off while your out and about. Its fairly easy to access the vacuum line, and requires no tools but the ones God gave ya!
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:55 PM   #7
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

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Originally Posted by LittleHoov View Post
As he said though, a classic sign of a bad FPR is fuel in the vacuum line that runs to it, thats something thats very easy to check, and to check multiple times, especially if you keep the cosmetic engine cover off while your out and about. Its fairly easy to access the vacuum line, and requires no tools but the ones God gave ya!
Just pulled out my Chilton's... hard to decipher with the limited illustrations, but I think I recognize where it is. I'll pop the cover off and check it, should I run the engine for a bit before I check it? I know zero about FPRs beyond what I just read in the book, will the engine die if I pull the vacuum line while it is running?
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:52 AM   #8
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

I've always checked it out with the engine off, and on a cold engine, warm engine, somewhere in the middle, all of the above.

I've never had one go bad, so I can't say what temperature to check is best, I just know what to look for.

The FPR is located on the fuel-rail, toward the right-side of the engine as memory serves. The "fuel rail" is basically the metallic lines that run to each cylinder. If you follow that rail back to where it begins you should see the FPR.


Looks like this:
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:04 AM   #9
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

CKP -crankshaft position sensor
CPS -camshaft position sensor

both tend to fail at least once. CPS is cheaper at $40 and takes 10 minutes to replace.

I will put my money on the CPS. Review this forum and see what symptoms match up better.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:09 PM   #10
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Did the CKP, helped for a day or so then back to same old same old. The job was easier than I thought, just a little tricky to get the starter out but that wasn't too bad. All in all it was a fun one, got a real good look at my manifold gasket leak (at least I assume that's where all that oil is coming from)! Will try the CPS in the near future, hopefully have better results. Will a bad sensor have some kind of discoloration or something so I know it is bad?
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:17 PM   #11
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Good or bad look the same. Part #s do get updated.

CPS is alot easier -about the easiest thing to replace on a Intrigue. My hazard relay (flasher) circuit I could probably replace in <1 minute since my center vent tabs are 1/2 broke, but originally that repair would have meant taking out the dash. My microfiche manual hinted at taking out the vent instead.

When you do not get and OBD2 scanner code you need to take a guess sometimes. Within 3-5yrs of having an Intrigue one of those CKP or CPS sensors usually fail. At the age of your car most have already failed.

Still have my money on the CPS.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:32 PM   #12
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Well for crying out loud, it sure took me long enough to get around to that job. Finally did it last night, took me maybe 15-20 mins, and most of that was trying to figure out how to move the coolant recovery tank around so it would stay out of the way. Very easy job though. The only thing easier that I've done is replace the external thermometer in front of the radiator, and at least with this I didn't have to lay down on the dirty garage floor. I also got a good look at my wonderful oil-sucking manifold gasket leak. At least I think that's what it is. I'm still going to wait a few days to make the official call on whether the car is fixed or not, the check engine light was still on when I finished but maybe I just need to get the code cleared.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:00 PM   #13
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Before you clear it, which ODB code is actually being set?
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:12 AM   #14
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Don't know, it just started doing it the other day (and my wife didn't tell me that until after I changed it). I don't have a code checker, so I'll repost when I find out. Hopefully I didn't just waste the $60 (plus the other $$$ for the crankshafter sensor earlier).
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:17 PM   #15
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Re: '00 GLS hard starting

Hello all. Sorry to revive an old topic. I've been having problems with my 2002 Intrigue not starting, mostly after driving around town, turning the car off for a little while then it takes five minutes to start. From what I've read this is likely the camshaft sensor. I've been trying to locate the sensor on my car but so far I can't seem to find it (I feel real dumb about this) I did see a sensor sticking out right by the windshield washer reservoir, is this the camshaft sensor? If it is how am I supposed to replace it without losing all my washer fluid?
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