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Old 12-23-2007, 09:22 AM   #136
humbug1
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Hi, I am new to this forum and was hoping for some advice. Some background...the check engine light came on in my 2003 Windstar. I took it to my mechanic and it was determined that it had a bad mass air flow sensor. That was replaced and the residual crud (oil buildup) was cleaned up. Fuel system cleaner was also added. The check engine light came on again a couple weeks later and I took it back. The infamous P0171/P0174 codes popped up. My mechanic replaced the PCV valve and told me I would have to take it to Ford if it came on again as he could not perform the other fixes in the TSB for these codes (not sure why). I have been driving it for a couple of days, and the light has not come on. A couple of questions:

1. If it does come back on, should I take it to Ford immediately? Will I cause engine damage if I do not?
2. What is the approximate cost to do this job and get rid of these codes? Unfortunately, I do not have the experience/resources to do this job myself and would have to take it to the dealer .

Thanks!
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Old 12-23-2007, 10:34 AM   #137
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman1075
I've got a copy of the Ford TSB it is article #03-16-1 and it covers 1999-2003 Windstars with the 3.8 engine.
If your one of the lucky one like I was in the beginning to have an extended powertrain warranty of 6 years 75000 miles then the dealer will do it under warranty.
Also if you don't have the light and it's showing no symptoms then leave it alone.Like the old saying goes ,If it ain't broke then don't fix it!
Thanks gasman1075 for your post! Unfortunately, my car is having the cel on and the two codes are P0171 and P0174. The car is showing absolutely no symptoms of rough idle or rough starting or loss of power etc. It's running like a baby, in fact, we went on a trip of about 350 miles one way with it and absolutely no indication of any of the symptoms on these posts. However, it keeps recurring. After it gets reset, it came back on after 2 weeks or so.

About the extended powertrain, how do I know? I'm not sure where to look for that kind of information on my car?
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:58 AM   #138
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

humbug1, to answer your questions:
1) No you do not need to take your van to the dealer immediately after the CEL. Some people have driven for thousands of miles with the CEL on. The first time the light came on in my 2001 van was in Jan 2005, I had it reset by Adv.Auto. It did not come back on for another year. Yes, Dec/Jan 2006. Must be some thing to do with the NC cold. Well this time it came on in Nov 2007. I reset it and it came back again after one week. I knew it's time to have it done. I did it my self. The improvements I saw was that the engine was running very smoothly. The pinging noise on acceleration was gone also......I do not recommend you drive for long period of time or for long miles. Just have it done as soon as you can.
2) The post above mentions a repair quote of $895. Others have mentioned $700 to $1200. Depends on how greedy your local dealer is. I am sure they can do the job in 1.5 hrs.
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Old 12-23-2007, 12:04 PM   #139
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Humbug1,

I hear ya. I tried looking at the warranty book from my windstar and found that it came with a standard 3yr/36000 warranty. I am waiting until Monday to call my dealer to see if I had the extended warranty on it but I'm not counting on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbug1
1. If it does come back on, should I take it to Ford immediately? Will I cause engine damage if I do not?
To get to your questions, if you read the 9 other pages of posts, you will find varying levels of symptoms. Most of them appear to be more significant in the older models (i.e. 99-01). In my case, the P0171/P0174 codes have not resulted in any noticeable performance issues at all. If you are not having any issues with idle or power issues, then you are in a similar boat as me. It's just annoying to have the light on and if I have a safety inspection done which is required here every 2 yrs, then they would fail me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbug1
2. What is the approximate cost to do this job and get rid of these codes? Unfortunately, I do not have the experience/resources to do this job myself and would have to take it to the dealer .
I have seen a lot of varying costs here. Most of them range in the $200-1200 category depending which post you read. Some of them are clearly ripping you off. The parts should cost no more than $100 from the dealer unless they replace unnecessary parts. But they will charge you for labor. If you bring up the TSA, they might cut you a break and share the cost of the repair (at least that's what happened to the first poster).

Hope this helps somewhat. I would call around and get some quotes and tell them about the TSA.
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Old 12-23-2007, 12:06 PM   #140
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Humbug1,

what was the code the first time? You mentioned that the 2nd time was the P0171/0174 codes but what was it the first time?
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Old 12-23-2007, 12:21 PM   #141
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

As you can see from the other posts the cost will vary.If you figure about $200 for labor( 2 hours)and 1 hour of diagnostic($100) plus the parts you can be as low as $400.
Do you have to take it to the dealer?NO,but lots of shops are not familiar with the repair and the updated parts to do the repair and they are the only ones that can reflash the PCM which is part of the TSB.
Will you do damage to the car?I can't say for sure,but I have this code showing for near 3 years now with little adverse affects except for really poor fuel mileage and spark plugs fouling due to the computer dumping fuel to make up for the lean fuel reading.
Basically this CEL is caused by unmetered air getting into the intake system after the mass air flow sensor(MAF) most likely a vacuum leak usually caused by the inutile manifold leaking but can be caused by many other things as is the case with my 2000 Windstar,while no one including myself has been able to find the problem.
Personally I would go to the dealer armed with all the information available and see what they say.
As far as your warranty coverage or when it expired only you would know that.Did you buy the car new or used?If new what type of warranty came with the car?If used was it from a dealer or private owner.If dealer what type of warranty came on the car,if private then forget about it.
Good Luck
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Old 12-23-2007, 12:25 PM   #142
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Thanks to all that responded! Hopefully changing the PCV had fixed the problem. There are no driveability issues at this point so I will keep an eye on it. Mundy5, sorry for the confusion...those two codes were the only codes to pop up.
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Old 01-09-2008, 08:54 AM   #143
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Well here I am, I just got my 2003 Windstar back from the dealer. The CEL came on, so I called and made an appointment. They called to say that the code 0171 & 00174 came up. That I have "clogged EGR ports". She then said it would just bee $572.98 to fix it...requiring replacing 6 O ring gaskets, insulator bolts, etc. I can't affort that, so I picked it up. I called another dealer, who referred me to a mechanic at a Lincoln Mercury Dealer. He asked how many miles are on it. It has 70,000 miles, runs great, and has had the routine oil changes, just as recommended by Ford. He told me that he would be more likely to belive it if it had 200,000 miles on it. So, my question is what you guys think, and is there an alternative way to clean them out. I have seen other less costly solutions on the web with other vehicles. Please help me with any suggestions you may have. Here in Florida, we do not have emissions inspections, so unless the CEL light came on, I wouldn't have known anything about it. $80.00 spent so far. By the way, the CEL is not on, if they have reset it, how long until it comes on again, and am I causing problems by driving it? We are about to have company and plan to use the van for trips of about 40 miles at the most.Thanks!
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:41 PM   #144
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

How did they know it had clogged EGR ports if they didn't have the manifold off to check them???The egr ports are only visable when the upper intake manifold is removed.
Check this web sight for photo's and step by step instructions on the procedure to repair this problem it also has information on the Ford TSB pertaining to this problem.http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:18 AM   #145
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

kjtdrt,
On my 2000 van, the first time the CEL came on, at 50K, I reset them. They did not come back for a year (after 10K miles). I did not notice any thing in the operation of the van. I reset them again. Took another year. Reset them again. Came back after 2 weeks. Decided to do the repair my self. In your situation, I would just wait until the CEL came back and see how long it takes. In the mean time it is not going to ruin anything. Just my opinion.
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Old 01-12-2008, 11:27 AM   #146
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjtdrt
Well here I am, I just got my 2003 Windstar back from the dealer. The CEL came on, so I called and made an appointment. They called to say that the code 0171 & 00174 came up. That I have "clogged EGR ports". She then said it would just bee $572.98 to fix it...requiring replacing 6 O ring gaskets, insulator bolts, etc.
It sure sounds like the solution that is suggested by the TSB in this post. That's exactly what others have done apparently on their own for a range of costs. I just purchased my replacement kit from Ebay for $91 delivered. I'm waiting for the light to come back on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjtdrt
So, my question is what you guys think, and is there an alternative way to clean them out.
I'm sure there are all kinds of alternative ways like certain types of cleaners (fuel additives) that claim to clean out fuel injectors etc. I'm not sure if they will correct any of the problems. My guess would be that the real problem is the isolator bolts which deteriorate under contact with oil and so the replacement of that and any clean up of the egr ports would solve the problem. Have you checked out the website mentioned on the 1st page of this post? His car was a much older model which makes me suspicious of their diagnosis. It is most likely the isolator bolts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjtdrt
By the way, the CEL is not on, if they have reset it, how long until it comes on again, and am I causing problems by driving it? We are about to have company and plan to use the van for trips of about 40 miles at the most.
I would not worry about it unless you are experiencing power problems or hard idle issues. We drove over 350 miles one way with the light on with absolutely no problems and even no effect on our gas mileage as some have reported on this post.

We reset the CEL and it came back on in about 2 weeks. The first time, it was just the 171. The 2nd time it was both the 171 and 174. We reset it the 2nd time and it's been about 1+ month. I'm still waiting for it to come back on and for the weather to get warmer so that I can make the fix.

I did make sure all the plugs etc were on tight.

hope this helps.

Your fellow 2003 windstar owner.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:22 AM   #147
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Hi, all. I have been following this thread with much interest. I have a 2002 Windstar that is experiencing the codes, problems, etc. The dealer checked it out and quoted... drum roll please.. $700 to fix it.

Forget that, I think I'm going to follow along with what everyone else has done and do it myself. Wish me luck!! Hopefully I will be able to get to it this weekend..if I can get the parts by then.

Thanks to everyone who has posted their experiences here.. I'm hoping it will help me out on this project since my wife is really anxious for me to get it fixed!!

Penguinix
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Old 01-16-2008, 10:29 AM   #148
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Good luck penguinix. please post after your experience. i'm just waiting for the weather to get a bit warmer and for the cel to come back on before I do mine.
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Old 01-16-2008, 09:58 PM   #149
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

Hi All, Last weekend I did the TSB on my 2000 Windstar currently has 71000 miles.
I purchased all the parts from Ford.
6 Port Seals $2.55 ea.
8 Isolator Bolts $7.71 ea.
U-shaped Vacuum line $21.42
Upper Intake Seal $16.91
Valve Cover $59.50 with gasket
I also changed the plugs $8.27 ea and a new PCV valve $10.71
My CEL has been on for quite some time with the famous 171 and 174 codes, I noticed Iíve been using more oil then usual and I had to get it through the state emission test. (Failed test and you canít renew your license plates here in Chicago, new law) I did remove the cowling made it easier to change the plugs. All in all it went very well I followed the instructions from the web site. Took about 4.5 hours
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
and yes I passed the emission test today
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:36 PM   #150
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Re: Codes 171 & 174 TSB # 03-16-1 update

I succesfully performed the TSB leckemby.net repair on my 01 Windstar this Sat. in 3 hours solo. Everything went smoothly until I had to disconnect the cruise control wire from the bracket attached to the plenum.

It snapped off in my hands, breaking the cable near the boot that is on the bracket attached to the plenum. I can't fix it, I think, without buying a new cable. Am I right?

Anyone had to do this , and what I am looking at for the part, time to fix, if I try it myself.

BTW Changed the rear plugs from below ( you have to have skinny arms and small hands) , and didn't remove the wipers/cowl for the TSB with no problem, just had to pry the thing up when sliding out the top plenum.....

I paid $43 on Ebay for the parts including the valve cover from an individual, and if I was trying harder could have done it in 2 1/2 hours.... I was extra careful not to f it up.

The ping/ knocking is gone, and the light is off. It runs sooooo good now.... 110K miles
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