windstar won't start - sometimes

[serge_saati]

Vapor lock can happen on Windstar when it's hot outside and engine is hot.
Try to fill with supreme fuel at Shell with 0% alcohol in the fuel.
Higher octane fuel increase the boiling point of the fuel. Lower alcohol rate too.
Try also to add 5% of diesel when you fill up.

Try also to prime the fuel pump many time before starting to increase fuel presure, and condensate fuel vapor into liquid.
To do that: turn key to On, Off, On, Off, On, Off, 1 second duration at each ON phase, then START.

If it still doesn't help, install an rubber insulator on fuel injectors and fuel rails to prevent them to heat and cause vapor lock.
Fuel rails are metallic, so they are vey heat conductive.

Read more info here: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul....php?t=1087820

Changing fuel filter will not help. Because the fuel filter is very far from the engine compartment and thus, it does'nt heat up. There's no production of vapor in the filter like there was in old carburated engine with filter under hood. The vapor is formed within injectors and fuel rails.

I think the reason why it happens when you run A/C, is because when you run A/C, the cooling fan turn on and blow hot air from the rad to fuel rail and injectors. Turn off A/C when you stop at red lights, because air coming from the rad is hotter at stop.

[serge_saati]

Try also to rev up during 1 minute before turning off the engine to increase fuel pressure, thus increase fuel boiling point, and cool down fuel injector with higher fuel debit.
Turn key off before releasing gas pedal.

Also, add antifreeze additive like Red Line Water Wetter to reduce engine block temperature, and reduce the chance of vapor lock.

[serge_saati]

Does my tips help to prevent vapor lock? You still have the problem?

[Caric67]

I have a 2001 Windstar LX and I have the exact same problems as ArtOfKicking, although I haven't tried checking if there is fuel at the fuel rail. It does blow the fuel pump relay occassionally when it kills. Fuel system has been flushed and fuel filter replaced. Will try keeping tank above 1/2 full and see if that helps. Just got quotes from mechanics to replace fuel pump, ouch!!! serge_saati, I'll try your suggestions as well. Can a non-mechanically inclined person change the fuel pump?? Thanks!

[12Ounce]

The fuel tank must be dropped to change the fuel pump ... heavy, clumsy work ... but not rocket science. The tank must be emptied of fuel or it's super heavy and dangerous. The vehicle must be jacked way up off the ground and safely supported.

I would rate it an 7.5 in a scale of 10 for mechanical difficulty...but only because of weight and close working quarters. There is also a risk of having gasoline splash about if pressures aren't relieved and care taken.

As far as fire risk ... it gets a 10!

[serge_saati]

Caric67, does it happens only when engine is very hot and it's hot outside, or it can also happen when the engine is cold?

[Caric67]

It has happened a couple times when the engine is cold, but 9 times out of 10 when engine is hot & it's hot outside when using the A/C. I left it parked over the winter, wouldn't start in November 2012. I got a new fuel pump relay last night but didn't install it. I also cleaned the battery posts and terminals and charged the battery overnight last night figuring I would try and tackle the fuel pump this weekend. The battery is less than a year old. This morning the van started right up!!. This is really frustrating!!

[serge_saati]

Originally Posted by Caric67

It has happened a couple times when the engine is cold, but 9 times out of 10 when engine is hot & it's hot outside when using the A/C. I left it parked over the winter, wouldn't start in November 2012. I got a new fuel pump relay last night but didn't install it. I also cleaned the battery posts and terminals and charged the battery overnight last night figuring I would try and tackle the fuel pump this weekend. The battery is less than a year old. This morning the van started right up!!. This is really frustrating!!

Ok, so it's not vapor lock for you Caric67.

It could be fuel starvation caused by fuel soak. In your intake valves, you may have carbon build-up. When the fuel passes through the valves, it get soaked by the carbon build-up who act like a fuel sponge, and that cause fuel starvation. Your injectors need to spray a lot of fuel until it reaches the combustion chamber; that means until the "fuel sponge" is saturated. The carbon deposit could be also into the injectors.
Heat causes build up of carbon and varnish in the engine.
It's a possible cause.

You may try to add carbon solvent such as BG products 44K fuel system cleaner, or Chevron Techron to your fuel for a couple of tankfulls to see if it helps.

[Caric67]

Thanks serge_saati! I will try those suggestions also. If I decide to replace the pump, what's the best option to go with, the pump and strainers or the whole assembly? Any recommendations on brands or where to get at store or online? I have an O'Reilly Auto Parts and Weaver Auto in my town.

One other thing I hadn't thought about.... I had to replace the engine a couple years back due to a spun bearing and I didn't have these issues with the old engine. Got a junk yard engine as a replacement so I wonder with the engine sitting for awhile if there wasn't some gunk in the injectors and such.....

Thanks again!

[Caric67]

Didn't get a chance to work on the van over the weekend. However, I did start it and turn it off several times in a row and it started up every time. I let the engine warm up and then turned it off. Wouldn't start. I did notice that I do not always hear the fuel pump when turning the key on. Turned the key on/off several times in a row until heard fuel pump and then it started. Turned it off again and tried to start it again and couldn't hear the fuel pump at all. I tried turning the key on/off several times and never heard the fuel pump. WIll try again today and see if I need to replace the relay again.....

[serge_saati]

Try to swap relay instead of replacing relay. It'll will save you the price of a new relay.
Check also the PCM relay, this one control the fuel pump relay.
When it doesn't start, remove the fuel pump fuse, and connect a 10A amperemeter or even a voltmeter in place of the fuse at the fuse socket terminals.
If you have current or voltage but no fuel pump noise, you have continuity but the fuel pump is jammed. Then you need to hit the fuel tank with a hammer w/o breaking the tank to make it work.

[dinoztoy]

I need some advise. I have a 2000 Windstar that won't start. There was no intermittent starting, just suddenly nothing(not cranking)! I have checked the battery & it is good. I pulled the starter & had it bench tested which it passed. I have checked all the fuses in the passenger compartment & under the hood & they are all good. I have viewed the schematic & there's not much in the scheme of things! I don't want to aimlessly throw money at it till its running! I've tried rocking the van while in park, beat on the starter, I also tried starting it in Neutral, with no results.

The schematic shows a 60A fuse which I believe is a relay, the ignition switch, starter interrupt relay, & the trans range sensor. Pretty straight forward!

How do I troubleshoot the above mentioned items to figure out what part is actually failing?

[serge_saati]

To troubleshot:
-While you crank, test the voltage at the "key" small wire at the starter solenoid. It's a small yellow/blue wire that activate the starter solenoid. It should be 12V for all the tests.
-If there's no voltage, test the voltage at pin n° 86 of the start interrupt relay socket of the fuse box while starting.
-If there's no voltage, test the voltage at one of the two test point pins of the red fuse n°19 10A while starting. W/O removing the fuse.

So if the 1st test pass (you have 12V), it's the starter area.
If the 2nd test fail (0V) and the 3rd test pass (12V), the problem is the TRS area.
If the 3rd test fail (0V), the problem is the ignition switch.

Here's the schematic for your 2000 Windstar. It's a little bit different of the 1995-1998.

The difference is the anti-theft relay is after the Transmission range sensor.

[serge_saati]

The relay is in this schematic. But I can't guarantee that it's the real fuse box schematic.

[serge_saati]

Windstar 2000 starting circuit schematic