Bad fuel pump? 95 3.8L 158k miles

[searcherrr]

I am going to do a lil test for sake of everyone else and my own curiosity.

I've ordered a new OEM Coil pack and an Accel Coil Pack (not sure they make these anymore, but I found it somewhere). The Accel pack is supposed to be better (lower) resistance and yield better spark. I'm gonna observe the (using an infrared thermometer) exterior temperature of the coil pack on a hot engine and note that temp. I'm saying this cause I've heard people say the resistance is different at different temps.

How hot do ya'll think the coils themselves get during full hot engine operation?

In any case cold or hot I'm gonna post the resistance values of the old, new OEM, and new Accel coils.

Do any of you feel the Fuel sending unit should be replaced with a new pump or do these things rarely go out?

I feel more and more now that my pump is weak due to the clogged filter I had.

What do any of you think of Walbro pumps?

[tripletdaddy]

The gas level sending unit can be still just fine, though if the price is right, then buy it as a commplete unit. I've replaced a few pumps without the sender, but you have to disassemble it, splice in the new pump or the old sender, etc.,etc.. All of that is done and not to worrry about when bought complete.

The ramps will maybe be half as high as you'll need and want. The tank may be able to fit under the van with just the ramps, but the problem is having enough space to work on it and get it to come down and go back up. It will be just too cramped with just the ramps.

I'd expect the coil to be near the engine temp right next to it or higher when parked. It should generate some heat on its own.

Resistance increases with heat and decreases with cold. That's kind of why computers neeed little fans in them to circulate air through them to get rid of the heat generated in them. Super conductors need chilling for them to work at their best.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by tripletdaddy

The gas level sending unit can be still just fine, though if the price is right, then buy it as a commplete unit. I've replaced a few pumps without the sender, but you have to disassemble it, splice in the new pump or the old sender, etc.,etc.. All of that is done and not to worrry about when bought complete.

The ramps will maybe be half as high as you'll need and want. The tank may be able to fit under the van with just the ramps, but the problem is having enough space to work on it and get it to come down and go back up. It will be just too cramped with just the ramps.

I agree. No matter how high you have the vehicle, it ain't high enough! On the assembly line, the vehicles are swung on an overhead conveyor; and the installer just walks beneath, barely lowering his head if he is a tall guy. You might consider putting the front end on ramps and the rear on the highest 3+ ton stands you can find ... just make sure the dang setup is absolutely fail-safe before crawling under. I considered cutting/making an access door in the floorpan when doing mine for later use ... now I wish I had.

[searcherrr]

I'm glad I asked you guys first. I'm in no mood to finagle with 30 minutes to 1 hour's worth of setup just to get the pump in and out. I will just have to pay someone to do it. I have 2.5 or 2 ton jacks and 2 ton jack stands and I can barely get those 1 foot off the ground without some great effort.

Believe it or not, I found a brand new OEM Motorcraft pump on Ebay that someone had from an old Ford Dealership. $50 and right now its going for $192 from the parts places. It doesn't come with a sending unit..... I'm just worried about having to splice wires now cause I would be scared to death if I didn't seal it all well enough that the wiring could spark the gas. I guess it'd be made so that can't happen and I just need to see it.

[garync1]

My God.. After reading over this.. You would think your van would be running like new if not better... The funny thing is. Its some simple problem that is a bear to pin point.. I see it as being one little thing that hopefully you will trace down.. But the time and money in your project is no joke that's for sure. If you ever want to put new carpet in your van. You may not need to but i found a site that is very good in price compared to others.. Also OEM grade.. Mine is fine for now but may use them when I need to..http://www.stockinteriors.com/
Anyway looking forward to finding out what your problem ends up being..

[12Ounce]

I did not mean to scare you off of the job ... just wanted you prepared. 2 ton jack stands should be OK weight-wise ... its just that heavier ones are usually taller also.

If you get someone else to do the job ... will you ever be sure it was done right ... or done at all??

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

I did not mean to scare you off of the job ... just wanted you prepared. 2 ton jack stands should be OK weight-wise ... its just that heavier ones are usually taller also.

If you get someone else to do the job ... will you ever be sure it was done right ... or done at all??

Thanks for sticking with me guys.

You didn't scare me off the job 12Ounce.... my current equipment did. I cannot achieve enough lift with the jacks I have to make a difference and even when I do get them as high as they go (maybe 18" or whatever) I don't feel very secure about using the jacks that high up. I really need a lift for this job; more like it.

I still trust either shop to do a 1 or 2 task visit properly. It is the laundry list of things that tends to mess people up because they try to get in a hurry to get it all done and overlook the details.

Ultimately though.... yes, I'd rather do it myself so I'd know whats what under there.

Anyone got any idea on the labor time at the shop for this job?

Reason I ask is cause I'm gonna try to get free labor from my 1st trusted shop due to them putting in the synchro backwards as confirmed by my 2nd trusted shop.

Thanks for the interior tip Gary. Actually my interior is pretty good. All it really needs is a good shampooing. When I got it it was in good shape, but since then I haven't bothered to clean it up inside throughout all this troubleshooting. In other words.. I'll feel like the van has earned a good cleanin once its running properly. lol

[12Ounce]

I often have to "double-stroke" my jacks. Use the jacks to their maximum lift ... install jack stands ... lower jacks, place blocks of wood on jack pedestal and raise vehicle up further.

[Ulsterman]

My advice is to drop the tank yourself, I fitted a new pump myself last April. As well as getting the vehicle securely supported as high as possible you also need to get the tank as empty as possible; it's damn awkward even with only a gallon or so sloshing around in there and more fuel adds more weight.
You are sure to spend more time cleaning the tank than the shop would and I was horrifed with the black goo that I eventually got out with several wrinses.
Good luck!

[tripletdaddy]

Huh. I've dropped three or so tanks and not one had anything much in it, no goop, no surprises, no OMGs! Maybe some light sediment as I expected. Makes me wonder how that goo got there. The main problem with getting the tank out with the van not high enough are the straps that hold it up are in the way when you disconnect the bolted end. I didn't think it was so bad with a few or whatever gallons in them. I think the best way I found to drain/remove/siphon the gas was not from the tank fill but where the rubber fill hose clamps to the metal pipe on the tank. You have to seperate them anyway, so I'll partially lower the tank and then get the excess gas out there. If you lower it with a lot of gas in it or even not, I've found a jack under it to lower it or a board ramp resting under the van to slide it down work well.

Off-hand, whatever splicing I had to do, was either something that didn't concern me or wasn't really a splice. I just meant that you will have to take it apart and reassemble it involving clamps, wire connections, nylon ties, etc...whereas a complete unit should just about drop right in.

[Ulsterman]

My theory was that the black goo got in the tank from some of the rubber on the filler hose starting to dissolve when maybe at some time a bottle of fuel system cleaner had been poured in and not immediately followed by some fuel or simply the rubber was starting to chemically deteriorate. The condition of the fuel filler hose seemed to support this argument so I replaced it.

[searcherrr]

Today the van is going back to trusted shop #1, who did the engine installation 1 year ago now. Damn, we've been at this for 1 year ya'll. I had a nice long good ole boy talk with them about how they installed the camshaft synchro backwards and they are gonna help me out with 3 credit labor hours for this other work.

Videos: After a long time with you all helping me out I decided to give some EVIDENCE Adding a new problem that has surfaced since the camshaft synchro was reinstalled.

Video1: Strange clicking noise from engine alternator and synchro area. Distinguish from Magnaflow heat shield tapping the oil pan if you can:
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...001smaller.wmv
Does this sound resemble that of an alternator with bearings going bad?

Video2: The "almost stall" viewed from the dashboard. Believe me if I videoed the engine its a lot more dramatic.
http://www.thinkrolland.com/images/e...003smaller.wmv
Does your Windstar do this at idle when the Rad fans turn off?

Here's what I'm having them do today:

• Exhaust – A. Heat shield taps on oil pan sometimes in Park, but mostly in Drive at idle. B. Muffler keeps coming off of exhaust hanger & banging into trailer hitch.
  ***Suggest doing first to eliminate noise before troublshooting noise from alternator area.
  
  
• Alternator / Synchro area? - Strange clicking noise. Did synchro being installed wrong cause engine damage? Is Alternator bearing going out? Is new OEM Ford Synchro making this noise since reinstalled?

• Replace Fuel Pump Assembly with new Sender (separate box)
  
  
• MPG 9 – 11 town / 15 – 17 Hwy. Slow upstream O2 sensors? Been like this since new engine.
  
  
• A/C compressor and leak? – After not using the A/C for a couple days turning on A/C 1st time causes a very loud and abrupt noise at the clutch. Is A/C line leaking (porous?) where rag is zip tied on? A/C High Pressure switch going bad or freon leak? Been like this since it left ya’lls shop.
  
  
• Crankshaft pulley – My imagination or is it wobbling?
• Attempts to Stall - As soon as the radiator cooling fan(s) cut OFF the engine tries to stall either while idle in park or at stops in drive. Has never actually stalled though. Fans are new. Fans unplugged, engine doesn’t do it. Perhaps the new IAC ya’ll installed for me isn’t functioning right? Try new OEM IAC? Electrical problem?
  

Problems repeatable in the following setup:
a.At fully warmed operating temp; A/C off in Park; when radiator fan cuts off - tries to stall
b.At fully warmed operating temp; A/C off in Drive; when radiator fan cuts off - tries to stall
c.At fully warmed operating temp; Wheel turned left/right (van not moving) rpms bob up and down continuously – eventually will try to stall

HOPES:
I am hoping that with the replacement of the fuel pump that the near stall issue and bad MPG will go away.

I am hoping that the clicking noise I hear at the alternator isn't engine damage in the synchro area.

I am hoping I can turn on my A/C without fearing that the clutch will fly off into outer space.

I'm hoping the crankshaft pulley wobbling is not a major issue with the shaft and/or harmonic balancer.

I've been told several times by tech's and others that a bad fuel pump won't cause bad MPG, but I just don't believe it. I guess I'll learn the hard way if this doesn't do it, but I think its a WEAK fuel pump starving the engine of "just enough" fuel to run at optimum efficiency.

[garync1]

You can get a stethoscope for engines at a automotive parts place. Or A really long screw driver to locate the noise area.. Just be careful not to get it caught in the belt.. I use them to isolate where the noise is coming from. Some times it can be tough to pin point one or the other if the noise is between 2 things but it does help isolate the noise.. so if you get it close to the cam sensor and its louder than the alternator then you isolated it.. If the noise goes away when engine is rev up it could be a heat shield vibration.. You can solve that by removing or bending a little or tighten it up.. Not sure on yours what is involved with temporary removing it..

[searcherrr]

Originally Posted by garync1

You can get a stethoscope for engines at a automotive parts place. Or A really long screw driver to locate the noise area.. Just be careful not to get it caught in the belt.. I use them to isolate where the noise is coming from. Some times it can be tough to pin point one or the other if the noise is between 2 things but it does help isolate the noise.. so if you get it close to the cam sensor and its louder than the alternator then you isolated it.. If the noise goes away when engine is rev up it could be a heat shield vibration.. You can solve that by removing or bending a little or tighten it up.. Not sure on yours what is involved with temporary removing it..

I'll have to remember that for future reference, but if this van comes back from the shop still making that sound I'm gonna have to go with uzzo2's suggestion in my other big long thread and get the RPG out.

The heat shield is definitely a separate sound from the main clicking in the video. The heat shield is an intermittent tapping and the sounds coming from the alt/synchro area is a fast clicking or fast scraping type sound. I'm not too worried about that cause like you said it can be bent.

I kinda think of the sound like one of those wheels like on the wheel of fortune with a clicker at the end of the wheel that scrapes along those pegs.... except really really fast and a much smaller wheel.

[tripletdaddy]

You said the rpms will bob up and down and it will try to stall when warmed up and turning the wheels left to right. So I've been told and have read here, this is typical behavior of an IAC not working. It's supposed to control the amount of air flow that bypasses the closed throttle valve at idle. The PCM sends a voltage signal to it to move the IAC valve more or less open when needed to increase or decrease the intake air when the idle decreases or increases due to increasing or decreasing loads on the engine, all respectively. It sounds like your IAC actuator, probably a solenoid, isn't moving the valve open enough or moving at all. Before all testing, it is recommended to be sure there are no vacuum leaks, though since it's an electrical test, at this point, I'd test it.
1 - KOEO, measure voltage at the IAC connector removed.
It should be~ 10.5 to 12.5 v
This indicates it's getting proper signal from the PCM.
2 - If ok, check its condition. Measure resistance across the terminals with the connector off. It should be 6.0 to 13.0 v. If not, then replace it as per Haynes manual.
3 - Measure for short to IAC body by measuring from a terminal to its metal exterior. It should be 10,000 ohms or greater. If not, the internal circuit is grounding out against the case and it needs to be replaced, as per Haynes.
4 - Last, remove the IAC valve and check for and clean with a soft rag carbon buildup esp. on the pintle, a pin. Hmm, the description says the valve moves in and out from its seat. That's not like a throttle valve that rotates on a pintle. That doesn't make sense. Just clean it, if it's dirty. They say to clean the valve housing too.

It says only a qualified shop/dealer with a special EEC-V scan tool to pull the working parameters from the EEC while it is runing can adjust the IAC.

My money's on the IAC at least for now.