A new noise coming from engine compartment - Page 9

olopezm · 03-02-2013, 07:26 PM

I know the synchronizer turns with the cam which is connected to the crankshaft with the timing chain. That's why I decided it would be a good idea to use such method and wanted to share it with you guys and see if you had any opinions.

I will paint a mark on the harmonic balancer and turn it until the synchro starts to move and will stop at that point; write a second mark anywhere I can (on the timing cover) and then start turning the crankshaft in the opposite direction until the synchro starts to move again, and paint a second mark on the cover. Then I will measure the distance between both and calculate the degrees. That should surely give an idea of how much slack there is.

I might try all this during next monday if everything goes well.

Oscar.

12Ounce · 03-03-2013, 07:41 AM

Well, that will tell you how much "slack" there is for sure ... and hopefully not much. Remember that there is a chain tensioner at play here, and some tensioners have a hydraulic force component that depends on engine oil pressure.

But at any rate, if you detect chain slack (and don't forget the gear slop) it bears further study.

olopezm · 03-04-2013, 03:47 PM

Hi guys, today I removed both valve covers and the first thing I found was that there is NO adjustment for the rocker arms; I took a few pictures and I wonder if according to them anybody would think that this engine is too dirty or not on the inside.

After removing each cover here's what I found: some of them had side-to-side play on them. I decided to remove the bolt and re-torque them, they were snug during a few minutes until the lifter bled-off and was loose again. I don't think this is normal but since I'm not an expert here, I would really like to know your opinion.

Front valve cover
http://youtu.be/UpylkzLruh4

Rear valve cover
http://youtu.be/8IZbi7ek6T0

I also rotated the crankshaft but didn't take a look at the synchro as I needed to remove the PS pump in order to remove the CMP sensor, I didn't have enough time to do it; instead I decided to take a look at the valves (since the cover was removed). After several tries, I couldn't find much difference (play) between the movement of the crankshaft and the movement of the valve(s), both moved almost instantly. I couldn't fully test it to measure the degrees but will try again within the next days.

PS. Anybody has any idea what this thing on the alternator is for? The wire seems a bit stressed.

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Oscar.

12Ounce · 03-04-2013, 05:48 PM

No adjustment ... who wudda thought!

The rocker arm "play" in the videos looks perfectly normal to me.

The device on the alternnator is a capacitor, I believe. Usually placed there for the benefit of the radio tuner ... if you have a lot of static on AM radio, you may want to replace. They do age.

serge_saati · 03-04-2013, 07:59 PM

The engine is very clean, with clean oil inside!

olopezm · 03-04-2013, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

No adjustment ... who wudda thought!

The rocker arm "play" in the videos looks perfectly normal to me.

The device on the alternnator is a capacitor, I believe. Usually placed there for the benefit of the radio tuner ... if you have a lot of static on AM radio, you may want to replace. They do age.

Thanks man, that's what I thought about the thing on the alternator; my Lincoln has two of those, with a totally different shape, mounted on each one of the ignition coils.

Quote:

Originally Posted by serge_saati

The engine is very clean, with clean oil inside!

Thank you Serge, I've seen some other pictures of engines and they seem to be cleaner than this one, I really wanted to know how "neglected" this engine was, if any. It will sound cheap, I know, but do you think I could recover and reuse this oil after fixing whatever is wrong with the chain or tensioner?

****

So, if you say that the side-to-side play is normal, I guess the next thing will be removing the front cover (DAMN!, I really wanted to avoid having to do that LOL). My manual only shows the procedure for the 3.0 engine but I'm guessing it should be the same, just need to loosen the engine mount and raise the engine to reach all of the bolts?

Oscar.

scubacat · 03-04-2013, 09:55 PM

3.8L timing cover removal:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...7&postcount=17

olopezm · 03-04-2013, 10:04 PM

Thanks man!

Didn't think of taking a look at the 2001 procedure. It's funny that they didn't put it for the 2000, I mean, It's the same DVD!

Oscar.

serge_saati · 03-04-2013, 10:23 PM

You didn't perform the test of 12Ounce to test the lifters.
Placing a thick feeler gauge under each rocker arm while the engine is idling. If the noise changes noticeably while the gauge is probed in place ... you may have found a noisy lifter.

Just testing the play of the rocker arms don't tell you that the lifter are good or not. It just tell you that the bolt is properly torqued. Lifter can be worn out.

scubacat · 03-04-2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olopezm

Thanks man!

Didn't think of taking a look at the 2001 procedure. It's funny that they didn't put it for the 2000, I mean, It's the same DVD!

Oscar.

You mean there's a typo in the workshop manual? Say it ain't so!

olopezm · 03-04-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serge_saati

You didn't perform the test of 12Ounce to test the lifters.
Placing a thick feeler gauge under each rocker arm while the engine is idling. If the noise changes noticeably while the gauge is probed in place ... you may have found a noisy lifter.

Just testing the play of the rocker arms don't tell you that the lifter are good or not. It just tell you that the bolt is properly torqued. Lifter can be worn out.

Oh, OK!

I didn't know that, I thought that as long as it didn't have any play it would be the same whether engine was on or off. I'll test it that way; do you think that oil will start spilling off of the heads? I'll get some pieces of cardboard to put it on the lower side of the head instead of the valve cover. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by scubacat

You mean there's a typo in the workshop manual? Say it ain't so!

The DVD I have includes 2000-2004 but if I look at the 2000 manual it will only show the procedure for the 3.0 and looking at the 2001 will show it for the 3.8 . Weird...

serge_saati · 03-05-2013, 12:14 AM

I just watched your first videos about the engine noise and make searches, and I find out it's a dull noise so it seems to be a piston slap noise.

Same as these one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Aaz5wNM3vI

But the noise is much louder at bottom of the engine. It's your case?

olopezm · 03-05-2013, 04:21 PM

Thank you Serge, I got a bit scared when I read "piston slap" in your reply however I must say that it DOES NOT sounds like my problem; it sounds pretty much the same in the entire engine bay but when probing with the stethoscope it is more noticeable close to the pulleys and happens ONLY at HOT Idle.

I found these videos in another forum and that's the reason why I decided to take it to another mechanic, that was when he pointed to a valvetrain problem; I also asked this guy Scotty Kilmer who has a channel in youtube and he said that it actually sounded like "worn lifters, typical of a Ford that old..."

These are the videos I found (I haven't figured out how to use the embedded player) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XsdO...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=rtl5LQxA9LE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jonBvjbrz70

Unfortunately the owner of those videos still has no definitive answer yet.

Oscar.

serge_saati · 03-05-2013, 05:20 PM

No your engine doesn't make the same noise as the Acura TL. The Acura TL makes a high pitched metallic tapping noise. Your's make a dull metallic grinding noise and it doesn't become more rapid or noiser when you rev up.
And I'm 100% sure that yours make a piston slap noise. 100%.

Raise your volume and check your video at 0:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05A3M9MJNHo

And then reduce the volume and check the Ford Ranger piston slap noise at 0:05

You see? It's the same noise.

I've listened to your noise when it's cold, hot, w/ serpentine belt, w/o serpentine belt, rev up, idle, and it's ALWAYS the same noise.

In the Chevrolet Silverado and Trailblazer video it's also the same noise, but you should focus on the piston slap noise, there's also other noises like the fans' motor, pulleys, pumps... of the Chevrolet that interfer a lot with the noise I want to show you. On the 1st Chevrolet video, watch the end of the video (1:45+), and focus on the piston slap noise (the dull noise under the truck).

olopezm · 03-05-2013, 05:43 PM

Oh man, I know what you mean! I appreciate that you took the time to watch those GM videos; unfortunately that's not the noise I'm talking about. That one is coming from the steering pump (there is a TSB about it) and I even made a thread about it long ago. It was until I started this current thread and I bought the stethoscope that I realized it was coming from the pump and that's why I never commented about it. It also seems to happen more during electrical load (if I open/close the windows or the cooling fans come on; you can even notice that it in the video with the fans).

I'M VERY SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION.

In this video you can hear the noise I'm talking about, it is present during it's entire length and seems to happen about 4 times per second; that one is my real concern.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19EaaVheFfA

Thanks again Serge and I really apologize about this situation.

Oscar.

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