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11-08-2013, 03:16 PM | #181 | ||
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
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2003 Chevrolet Impala LS 3.8L OHV 2002 Ford Taurus SE 3.0L OHV (sold) 1998 Ford Windstar LX 3.8L OHV (sold) 2002 Chevrolet Malibu LS 3.1L OHV (sold) 2004 Hyundai Accent GS 1.6L DOHC manual (sold) 1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme S 3.1L OHV (sold) 2002 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor 4.6L SOHC (sold) A Windstar without having the check engine light is not a real Windstar. |
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11-08-2013, 08:28 PM | #182 | |||
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
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I've uploaded a couple of new videos that I made today. Here are the links: Cold start Hot engine, tapping audible Quote:
***************** Wish I could post the actual sound from my stethoscope, I probed around some more and it's definitely coming from the side where the timing cover is. I wonder if any of you guys knows on which side of the chain the tensioner sits; I could hear the noise louder at the front side of the timing cover (where the oil pump is) than towards the back (firewall side). I was thinking of the camshaft synchro and shaft that drives the oil pump, but what do i know? It seems that I'm facing the inevitable removal of the front timing cover... Oscar.
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1995 Lincoln Town Car 4.6 Signature 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GT 3.8 2000 Ford Windstar SE 3.8 |
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11-09-2013, 06:12 PM | #183 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
If I had to remove the front cover (actually, I need too ... just keep putting it off) I would support the sub frame, remove the four sub frame bolts and push the engine and tranny away toward the LH side of the engine box. Hopefully this will make enough wrench room so that the job is more "joy"!
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11-11-2013, 10:08 PM | #184 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
I'm interested 12Ounce, how would you actually do that?. I understand the concept but can't see it in practice.
What would you use to either move the engine away from the body or the body away from the engine? Oscar.
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11-12-2013, 09:57 AM | #185 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
If you support the sub frame separately, but close to the body ... and support the body, also separately (perhaps by the wheels): I would expect the sub frame (complete with engine, tranny, and struts attached) .. should be able to shift over an inch or so, using a simple bar. I'm expecting the steering column coupling to have enough "play" in it to allow this to happen.
I'm calling this a "no brainer" at this point ... but I've never actually tried it! |
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11-13-2013, 07:46 PM | #186 | ||
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
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Also, I told him that you already replaced the lifters now. I suspected the timing chain from the beginning & it was my first opinion, then when I compared to other audio files, I made the mistake of thinking that your noise sounds similar to lifters noise of the Corvette. I forgotten about the fact that in your engine's case, it doesn't worsen at higher rpm, that will rule out the lifters. I was only focused to the noise at this point. Then when I compared to an engine of the same brand (Ford Ranger 2.3 Duratec), I found out that it's the same engine noise as yours. And the diagnosis was a worn chain tensioner, which is a frequent problem on Ford Engine. The rattling noise of its timing chain it's the same as yours, so I'm sure it's that. I think your engine makes more sound at hot because the oil is less thick at hot, so there's less oil pressure. Same with lower viscosity oil.
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2003 Chevrolet Impala LS 3.8L OHV 2002 Ford Taurus SE 3.0L OHV (sold) 1998 Ford Windstar LX 3.8L OHV (sold) 2002 Chevrolet Malibu LS 3.1L OHV (sold) 2004 Hyundai Accent GS 1.6L DOHC manual (sold) 1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme S 3.1L OHV (sold) 2002 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor 4.6L SOHC (sold) A Windstar without having the check engine light is not a real Windstar. |
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11-13-2013, 08:06 PM | #187 | |||
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
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Anyway, it seems that you guys are right (since the beginning) and I'll have to remove the front cover. I did a quick vacuum test (just got a gauge tester) and it was steady at 21in.Hg. That at least tells that it hasn't jumped a tooth... I just can't find the will to do such a titanic task on this engine, why did Ford have to do it so hard for us? Oscar.
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11-14-2013, 07:26 AM | #188 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
If you had four jack-stands, or just two more supports of a rugged sort, you have all you need. Use four support points with a pair of heavy board running sideways. Each board sits atop a pair of supports. One board near the rear of the sub frame, one near the front. Loosen the sub-frame bolts several rounds and check to make sure the sub frame is secure on the boards ... then continue removing the bolts.
When the sub frame is low enough to have a small air gap between it and the frame, you are ready to try sliding it on the boards to provide better access. You may have to jack the body up a bit to achieve this. I have dropped a Winnie sub frame all the way to the floor, using just threaded rod-screws that I made for the purpose. But I have not yet tried this limited move. |
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11-15-2013, 11:52 AM | #189 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
OK, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but on my '96 with the 3.8L, I'm nearly certain that the front cover can be removed with the block in it's "normal" spot.
You'll have to remove a few other things (i.e. balancer, water pump pully, etc.) but I think the cover will come out. The key "trick" is to back the studs out of the block without removing them from the cover and lift vertical. |
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11-15-2013, 10:57 PM | #190 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
Thanks Tomj76,
I was thinking about that possibility after taking a look at the engine bay. The Ps pump, alternator, harmonic balancer, water pump pulley, tensioner and idler pulley do need to come off before the front cover. Just to think of it shivers me lol Oscar.
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11-16-2013, 10:33 AM | #191 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
In the work that I've been doing to re-ring/re-bearing my engine, I initially planed to do it with the block in place. I was to the point of removing the front cover when I decided to take the block out. The Ford Windstar factory service manual says that you need to remove the engine to remove the cover, but I read somewhere on the web that this is not necessary.
Once I removed the water pump and removed all the front cover bolts, I found that I couldn't turn two of the studs that pass through the water pump & front cover into the block. They had corroded to the point where the rust pinched them tight in the front cover clearance holes. I ended up breaking them from trying to turn them, then I eventually got them free. I had to apply heat to one of them while hammering on the cover (against a flange) to get it to move. By the time I got the last stud out I had decided that the engine work would be easier with the block out of the engine bay, especially with the stud problem as well. I never put my idea of removing the cover with the block in place to the final test. Final word of caution... those bolts, especially the water pump bolts are a mix of types, at least four types of bolts. In addition, the documentation of which bolt goes where is not consistent, even from Ford. I'd take a few steps to make sure you keep track of locations for each bolt and stud. |
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11-16-2013, 10:40 AM | #192 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
This is a copy of a post I made years ago.
You need to jack the engine up, I only needed to remove the front mount to gain the clerance needed. All the studs (5 if I remember correctly) must be unscrewed from the block while the cover is still in place, just double nut them and hope they are not seized in the cover(mine where ok) When you reinstall the cover the 3 rear studs must be in the cover before you place it on the engine, I put all 5 in place just so I wold not forget. I did not remove the oil pan, I used a FelPro gasket set that includes silicone sealer for the pan to cover joint. This joint was silicone from the factory anyway. Like Wiswind said, do not miss the bolt located under the oil pump, it's an allen head and was not a standard size (it's Metric I think) I wound up grinding down a 1/4" drywall screw tip and puting it in a 1/4" socket. It did not need much grinding to make it fit. Before you pull the crank balancer all the way off make note of it's position (mine had a notch that I pointed straight up) then remove the cam sensor and note the position of the "vane" that spins under the cover.you also neeed to make a scribe a mark to line the sensor up with the timing cover. I have to say the worst part of the job besides bending over the fender for real long time is scraping the gaskets off. It took me 14 hours without trying to rush it. Only special tool was a balancer puller, people have said you need a power steering pulley puller but I got the pump bracket off the engine without removing the pulley. The 1 lower bolt is the problem, with the pulley in the way you can only turn it 1 wrench flat at a time. I had trouble breaking the balancer bolt loose as I could not keep the engine from turning. I used an old trick from years back, I put a socket and braker bar in the bolt and wedged it on the frame rail. I then bumped the engine over with the starter till it broke the bolt loose. Be carefull if you do this, if the bar slips it's going to go flying. It can be done, good luck |
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11-16-2013, 11:37 AM | #193 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
Oh, it can be removed "in place". ... and I've done it. And all the while I was muttering to myself ... "next time I'm gonna ....."
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11-17-2013, 12:11 PM | #194 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
Well, I did start by saying that I may not know what I'm talking about. What problem will detaching and shifting the subframe solve? You always have great insight, so I'd like to know what I'm missing.
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11-17-2013, 01:12 PM | #195 | |
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Re: A new noise coming from engine compartment
There's about an inch that the whole engine/tranny could be shifted to the left, once the sub frame bolts are removed ... along with the strut upper nuts loosened. At least, that's what I think. That additional inch of wrench room would do wonders.
But like I say, I haven't tried it ... yet. |
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