A new noise coming from engine compartment

[olopezm]

Thank you Serge, today I took it to another mechanic and unfortunately the noise did not happen at all, what a coincidence!

I described as best as I could and he said it kinda sounded like bad lifters but told me to come back if the noise appeared. It didn't at all; I'll test the lifters next week when 'll have some time.

As a side note, it was time for it's smog test and passed with flying colors...

Oscar.

[olopezm]

Hi guys, it's been a very long time LOL.

We had some health problems at home and money was short but I managed to finally replace those tapping lifters that I mentioned in an earlier post; unfortunately it didn't solve the problem. I kept probing around and this time even jacked the front end after I took it for a drive so the noise would appear and the noise seems to is definitely audible the most when probing on the oil filter adapter.

I remember 12Ounce mentioned a valve behind the oil pump, which seems to be my problem. I have a few questions:

What actually causes it to fail?
Are there any side effects that might arise because of it?
Is there any way to repair the current one or is replacing the entire pump the only option? I've found that the valve only comes with a complete pump assembly (no rebuild kits around here).

I'm pretty sure that I'm missing other interrogants but I'm feeling a bit tired and can't think right at the moment. Please let me know if any of you has any other thoughts or some pertinent info regarding that valve.

As always I appreciate your help.

Oscar.

[12Ounce]

Yeah, the valve is probably not available separately ... but it might be. I imagine most folks who replace the pump do not bother with the pressure relief valve ... as it is a bit of additional work.

The valve is simple ... a spool and a spring, held in place by a metal plug. It is actually part of the front cover, not the pump assembly... but the pump covers it, making the metal plug redundant. If it has failed ... the spring broke. If it fails, there is no oil pressure. Such an important little goody!

[olopezm]

The spring and the other two small things are the valve right? Check this link
Ebay Oil Pump

How hard is it to replace it, do you think it can be done on the vehicle or will it be as involved as removing the front engine cover?

Oscar.

[olopezm]

I can't seem to find the section for the removal of the valve in the workshop manual, do you have any idea of which section it is?.

I believe that if the valve was giving no oil pressure, I would have found out long time ago. It still puzzles me why it happens only after reaching normal temp

[serge_saati]

Yes, the 2nd piece in your link is the valve.
That could help you:










It's very hard to replace. You should remove valve cover, oil pan...

[olopezm]

Thank you Serge!

Are those pictures for the 3.8 engine? It could be me but don't look like it. I couldn't find any on my Ford DVD.

[serge_saati]

No they're not. But they're similar.

[olopezm]

OK, Thanks.

I will post back when I have any news; got quoted with $92 for a new Melling oil pump.

Oscar.

[olopezm]

Hi guys, I know this a long thread and that there hasn't been much progress. It's been more than a year since I started this thread!!!

Well, guess what? Today I finally started with the oil pump replacement. It wasn't easy to remove because it's too damn cramped and I fought about 2 hours with 2 of the bolts (the upper most ones); it until my mind cleared up that I used my set of 1/4" sockets, YES 1/4", to remove them and off it came.

Here are some pictures of it. I took some measurements and the lash is supposed to be .012", I got .0135". The gears weren't flush with the mounting face of the pump case, upon inspection with my digital caliper, I got 0.007". I found some scoring as can be seen in the pictures.

This is the mounting surface on the engine, it shows some minor scoring but doesn't feels too rough when using my nail on it.


These are the gars, they had some deep scoring and they were definitely not flush with the case.


And this is the case with the gears removed. It also shows deep scoring.



I took my chances and decided to buy a new unit; after comparing them, the gears on the new unit are flush with the case. Old one seemed to have a slightly larger backlash.

I couldn't finish installing it, one of the bolts won't go in. I kept trying but it wouldn't, I'll try again tomorrow. I wonder if "accidentally" leaving that bolt off would do any harm or cause any leaks?

What do you guys think? As always I appreciate any comments in this "long as my arm" thread.

Oscar.

[12Ounce]

Believe or not I've reread all 12 pages of this string. Good for you for hanging in there.

Look at the first photo that shows the front cover: I think I see the pressure relief valve down in that hole. If that is the pressure relieve valve, then your front cover is a different version from my '99 front cover, as my pressure relief valve is 90degrees away in orientation from what I see in this photo. In a similar view of my front cover, the camera would be looking straight down the center-line of the valve cylinder. I remember that the front cover went through at least one engineering upgrade during manufacture of the 3.8.

I would suggest you do what is necessary to remove and inspect this valve poppet and spring ... it is probably covered by a screw-plug that is out of view to the camera in this view. Could you make a better image of the valve?

On a different matter ... look again at the first photo: You can happen to see the timing markings on the crank-wheel (I don't know how else to describe this wheel) ... this wheel is better marked than mine is. What luck that the markings happen to show in this photo!

[olopezm]

Thanks 12Ounce, as always.

You're right, I forgot about the valve and according to your comments, this is definitely a different version. There is no way to service it without removing the front cover; the new pump came with a new valve, spring and cap, it even came with a diagram on how to install it, which clearly shows the timing cover as removed form the engine. Unfortunately the pump is already installed and I cannot take another picture like the first one but if you still want me to, I can try looking for a good view of the part where the valve is and take a picture, I used my hand to feel and there were no plugs.

I also noticed the timing marks behind the crankshaft while I was working. I saw them shine while I was moving the light to another spot and I was like WHAT?. I have no idea if the timing cover has a mark on it, I believe that if Ford took the time to put marks on the wheel, there should be a mark on the timing cover!

I finished installing it today; to be honest I kept fighting the last bolt for another 2 hours and I just couldn't bolt it down, I lost my patience and decided to leave it off hoping it wouldn't start to leak... When I got to start the engine I held the gas pedal to the floor and cranked the engine for around 10 seconds to prime the oil system, watched for leaks, nothing. I decided to start the engine and that ticking noise over 1500 RPM I would hear during cold starts is now gone!

The new pump must have really helped, I can't think of another reason. I used 15w40... ticking, used 5w30... ticking, new oil pump and 5w20... not ticking! I idled the engine looking for leaks until it reached operating temp and still no leaks. I'm almost sure that leaving that bolt off won't cause further problems. As the temp went up the ORIGINAL tapping noise from the videos began to be noticeable again, but not as loud as before. Again, the new oil pump must have helped since now the oil was even thinner.

I was afraid that it could be something with the lower part of the engine, like a bearing, etc. Took my stethoscope and probed on the oil pan and noise was very faint, almost nothing. I then probed on the oil filter and the noise was also very faint; decided to probe around while I had one wheel still in the air and the loudest I heard was on the front driver side freeze plug. This makes me think that it must be a worn/clogged lifter as it was suggested before by both of you guys.

If it turns to be it, I'll study my options. I currently can't afford to park it again (it sat for more than a year) because my other rides have broke down (I finally got an oil pressure tester gauge and was wiling to take some readings but with this situation I had to rush and decided to replace the oil pump, not the way I like to work, but at least it helped...).

I was thinking about more frequent oil changes and see if it helps freeing a clogged lifter. A friend suggested an oil flush from "Liqui Moly" brand which supposedly helps with lifters, valves, etc.

I'll appreciate any input.

Oscar.

[serge_saati]

I ask the opinion of Scotty Kilmer about the 1st video engine noise, and he says it's usually bad timing chain tension and/or worn chain. So you should replace chain tensioner and timing chain and change also sprocket gear and chain guide. Buy the whole kit.

Like we said at beginning LOL.

[serge_saati]

Check, a guy who have a Ford Ranger 2.3L Duratec had a problem with the timing chain tensioner and his engine make a similar noise of your.

[12Ounce]

Whereas on my front cover the pressure relief valve is covered by the oil pump, I believe yours is covered by the block ... and only by removing the front cover could one ever access it.

Whatever the root cause of the noise, the higher flow of oil from the new pump is helping to solve/cover it.