2006 Murcielago??

[NewyorkKopter]

Is it true thier aiming for the Enzo, and that thier gonna update the Murcielago to 6.5 liters and over 600 bhp??? If they do this'll be a dream come true. Because I just read from Lambocars that the Road-going Murcielago R-GT is gonna be targeted to the Enzo, and will have way over 600 horses. If all this is true, then thats AWESOME lol

[accelerator]

well, as we can see now it's the LP640. But I still don't think it's aimed at the Enzo, which destined for the track. The LP is more GTish still.

[NewyorkKopter]

Honestly I think Lambo should scrap the "gearbox ahead of the engine for better weight distribution" idea for the Murcielago and use the traditional layout. That way they can mount the engine and suspension directly to the chassis, giving the car better performance. Then if they wanted to go a step further, they could easily add venturi tunnels increasing downforce. The 4wd also has got to go. Its absolutley pointless as it just adds weight. When was the last time you saw a Lambo in the snow? If Lambo does these few things they'll definetly be back near the top. They've broken nearly all of their traditions anyways, the traditional 5 speed gearbox, the traditional doors, the traditional gearbox ahead of the engine layout, and most importantly, the traditional exotic Lamborghini styling. The Murcielago doesn't even look half as insane as the Countach, or as sexy a pre'99 Diablo. Sorry about the ranting, but its just that everytime Lamborghini's come out with a supercar its been the fastest, most exotic car of its time. The Muira, fastest car in the world when it came out, the Countach fastest car in the world when it came out, the Diablo the fastest car in the world when it came out, and the Murcielago....the heaviest supercar when it came out.

[Lamboholic]

NYK, I think you're missing the point! It's not that the Lambo's are getting too slow, it's just that the rest get's so fast!! How can a profit making company compeet with buggatti speeds which are very couicidle for the make and how about Koenigsseg performance? Yes they can make it look like a racecar just like Ferrari and Koenigsegg does and their cars will be lighter and faster when the changes will be made you just described!
But first of all a Lamborghini truly is ditinquised by it's characteristic engine layout. If there is one way they differ towards other supercar brands it's their own way of building an engine. Those engines are known to be very big, very torqy and very powerfull at the full rev band. This creates a very different driving experience most people who drove one discribes as only a lambo could offer. Those engines are based on what they learn in offshore powerboat racing! Not on the track with a car! What most of us do not know is that Lamborghini builds the fastest v12 engines used in Class 1 offshore racing today and since many years back! This is an outstanding performance because powerboats like these causes incredibel stresses on such engines which no car would ever match. Those boats require very different engine performance then a racecar engine provides. Huge power, much more torque, and it must be very strong to survive high stresses! What Lamborgini basiccaly does is building a small offshore powerboat engine and put is inside a car. Note: the first Lamborghini motors used for the powerboatworld was litterly inside the LM002 jeep / truck (whatever you prefer to call it ) and it needed very little changes to be used which is very good! Therefor you get very different, but very agressive power and also a buckload of weight inside the back.

But we are drafting, it's time to get to the point! I think when all lambo's are changed they will be more like the neighbour supercar would be! It might be faster but the experience of driving a real Lambo wil be lost!

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by NewyorkKopter

they can mount the engine and suspension directly to the chassis, giving the car better performance.

how?as far as i am concerned, using the chassis as a structural element only serves to give you extra ways to loose your teeth.

Originally Posted by NewyorkKopter

Then if they wanted to go a step further, they could easily add venturi tunnels increasing downforce.

i like how you make this sound so easy.....

Originally Posted by NewyorkKopter

The 4wd also has got to go. Its absolutley pointless as it just adds weight.

if balboni says that the 4WD drive helps make the car faster, i'm going to go with him on that one.

Originally Posted by NewyorkKopter

They've broken nearly all of their traditions anyways, the traditional 5 speed gearbox, the traditional doors, the traditional gearbox ahead of the engine layout, and most importantly, the traditional exotic Lamborghini styling.

er..... you want a 5 speed gear box?
what are the traditional doors?
the ones that were first used on the countach?
hang on... what are those on the murcie?
gearbox ahead of engine? murcie again
exotic styling? that's subjective.....

Originally Posted by NewyorkKopter

The Muira, fastest car in the world when it came out, the Countach fastest car in the world when it came out, the Diablo the fastest car in the world when it came out, and the Murcielago....the heaviest supercar when it came out.

don't believe the hype.
the muira wasn't the fastest when it came out losing out in the 0-60 to both the MKIII GT40 and the 365 GTB and again losing out in top speed to the 365.
The LP400 Countach when it was first released still failed to top what the 365 GTB put on paper (and tested) and when the Boxer came out a few years later, that too best the LP400 in terms of numbers.
The diablo did a little better but then, it's 0-60 was still bested by the 959 and the top speed claim only last unitl the next year when the XJ220 came out.

[NewyorkKopter]

ok so maybe the Miura, Diablo and Countach being the fastest was a stretch, but they were very close in being the fastest or were the fastest at one point in time, like the Diablo. The Murcielago is behind by almost 30 mph. The Canto, the car the Lamborghini originally had planned to replace the Diablo topped 244 mph in testing. Granted, it may have had overheating problems, and those huge rear intakes, but atleast it would've been at the top. I really do hope Lamborghini makes a lightweight 2wd street legal version of the Murcielago. As far as mounting the engine to the chassis goes, it improves performance because you're using the engine as a part of the chassis so you don't need the extra lbs of chassis at the rear. Drunken Money, are you really going to go with thinking 4wd will make a supercar go faster? The Zonda S which has abit less horsepower than the Murcie was able to crush the Murcielago in accleration on Top Gear. I'm not saying that Top Gear's race was perfectly accurate because Clarkson babied the Murcie off the line saying that he might fry the clutch if he floored it, but it was accurate in showing that the Murcie lagged behind because of its weight. Then on another episode Clarkson said that the Gallardo's also lost some of the Lamborghini magic in the effort to make it more usable. Tiff Needle even said the the Murcielago's too civilized. Only now with the LP640, is Lambo making an effort to keeping true to its tradition of being absolutley crazy. All I'm saying is that Lambo shouldn't lose its image of being wild and sexy when lined up to any other supercar, as well as being one of the fastest out there.

[drunken monkey]

i'm not saying anything.
i'm just pointing out that a lot of the things you said in the previous post was arbitary and said without any knowledge or even reference to how/why things are the way they are behind it; as proven by your subsequent thread in the enginnering/techincal forum asking WHY some cars have the engine as a structural part.

the simple reason given is that it means you have less parts and hence less weight.
in case you missed it, the current 4wd systems add weight.
if you have equal weight cars with equal power and the only difference is that one is 4Wd, the 4WD car WILL be faster.
there's a reason why 4WD was banned in British Touring cars is taht even with the heaviest weight penalties, the 4WD cars win.

In the case of Zonda against the Murcielago, the Zonda wns because of massive weight differences; about 400kg depending on whose scales you are using.
This gives the Zonda a massive 100bhp per ton advantage.
that 400kgs has nothing to do with 4WD at least not all 400 kgs of it. Sure it has a lot to do with the packaging of the car but correct me if i'm wrong but are Lamborghini not just as much about being super lush interiored and luxury cars? A super striped out car with bare minimum trim is not traditional Lamborghini.

So what if the new lamborghinis are "civilised".
you do realise that the old cars just had flawed chassis design, right? And that uncivilised is just a nice way of saying it. I don't know about you but i'd prefer to have a car that I can drive to 90% of it's capabilities without worrying about dying.

New LP640 shows they are making a crazy car? Is simply having more power what makes the LP640 crazy?

[NewyorkKopter]

good point. I said that Lamborghini is in a way making they're way back to being crazy because the LP640 is alot more aggresive in design than the standard 6.2L Murcielago. The Countach's design was insane, the Diablo's design was sexy, the Murcielago's design was, when it came out, abit too civilized, but now with the LP640 its starting to look more of what a Lamborghini should look like...wild, sexy, crazy, insane. Despite that, I'll still be waiting for a lightweight 2wd version of the Murcielago.

[drunken monkey]

i don't know about that.
i have a few female friends that said and i quote "ooh, i'd love to drape myself over that car" when they saw the murcielago.... And i personally love the subtly of the Murcielago. It doesn't try too hard at the "look at me!" stakes
but looks are subjective.

i love the LP400 because of it's simplicity and purity of line (guess my profession...)
the diablo to me, was a fattened version of the Countach and something about it never sat quite right with me until the 6.0 came out tweaked by Audi.

as for 2WD murcielago, i don't think you'd see that, depending on how the supposed miura concept goes of course. IF that gets the go ahead, they won't need a RWD murcie getting in the way of the Miura concept. Personally i really don't like the concept car's looks and wish they would just get someone to design a fresh car. Ignoring that and just looking at the idea/of such a car; RWD V12 middie, i can see a place for that in the Lamborghini line up.

Gallardo: every day useable, not too wide, fast, safe, comfortable.
Murcielago: big, loud brash for when you want the same as above but with extra flash and kick.
Whatever the Concept ends up as being: No compromises top end car.

it makes sense to me as it also brings the company in line with its peers
ferrari (V8 entry car, V12 GT, 4 seater, ENZO)
porsche (boxster/cayman, 911, future panamera, Carrera GT)
ok... porsche has a slight eccentricity to it's line up with the GT2/3/RS cars but thats mainly down to their respective race series but you get what I mean.

[NewyorkKopter]

oo, I didn't even realize that...The Miura conecpt looks good, but what would you prefer, that or a no-nonsense Murcielago? Imagine if they fixed up the Canto's design and came out with that as thier 3rd model

[drunken monkey]

i like the idea of a no-nonsense lamborghini.
it doesn't have to be the Murcielago. In fact i think if they stick with that car, tehy would be limited by the existing design; they are much better off starting afresh.

The canto was horribly flawed as a piece of design.
For some reason, they chose to build it exactly as the designer drew it and realised afterwards that it was well, poo aerodynamically with respects to air flow and cooling. Again, you're better off drawing a better shape to begin with. Let's not forget that the W12 and Veyron and to an extent Continental GT and Phaeton has garnered a lot of data that will filter through VAG cars of the future.

Personally, i'm looking forward to the next gen RS6 because i imagine a lot of that wil end up in a lamborghini, especially if you look at the chassis and then turn it around 180 degrees....

[NewyorkKopter]

yea I'd prefer a completley new design for the no-nonsense Lambo. That way Lambo'll have a 3 model line-up like most of its competitors. And also because they'd be starting out fresh, they'll be free to do whatever to the design to suit the car. As far the RS6, I'd doubt they'd put any major parts like suspension components into a Lambo...only stuff like interior switches, gauges, etc will probably end up in a Lambo. Also, I heard rumors that the Miura Concept would be Lambo's answer to the Enzo. But, based on its design I don't think it has much potential because the Enzo is a track oriented car, and the Miura Concept looked pretty sober.

[drunken monkey]

not suspension, the chassis/frame.
in any car development, this is the phase that cost the most.
and believe it or not,
audi have in their pockets a largely aluminium chassis that is currently used to carry a V10 (yes, that V10) and house 4 seats.

loose two seats, turn the chassis around, move engine closer to the centre and what do you have?
their DRC also looks promising on the RS4 but we'll have to see how it deals with larger masses on the RS6 and the self tracking is looking... well, interesting.
I would've liked to have seen an all alimunium A6 as it's not like they don't know how to do it. In the same way, if lamborghini don't pull out an all aluminium or even carbon fibre car, i'd be dissapointed.

[NewyorkKopter]

I'd be dissapointed too...Lambo's no-nonsense car really should be all carbon fiber.

['97ventureowner]

This thread hasn't been active for almost 18 months. Too old to be posting in. Closed.